i have only one complaint to make ----i was looking forwards to several weeks of interesting entertainment and the anticipation /expectation ----i could come in after a day/nights work ---fire up my stove and the permies forum ---make coffee and sit down ---each night to read and reread and look at pics several times----but i had only started getting into it and it was over----yes i can do a rerun of sorts but not the same ----so i can only hope that this will be noticed by other interested companies/customers----who can get Peter to build another stove ---or at least under his guidance-----thankyou Peter.
something trivial --- , i cut away a small section of the vermiculite concrete floor pad i had cast for the stove , a friend donated some off cuts of heavy black slate ,just enough to do some trim work around the stove --pics to follow ---but heres the piece ---firm enough to build the stove up on it ---but i can snap bits off it up by hand.
heres a pdf brochure showing a lot of detail, and improvements in design ,project doesn t get nearly as much support as it deserves---seems theres issues around investors wanting the rights to it ---on an open source design ---back to basics i say---build your own ---plenty of detail here to show how. It can be simple or as complex as you wish to make it
yes seen a few similar set ups , used a few of them over the years as well---at some gatherings---thats why i went with the auger set up ---those are all still just shitting into a bucket style and whilest mostly no smell or problems ----does nt take much to go wrong ---numpty s and staggerer s at these events---its usually fine if yourself is the only user--the auger covers the deposits and moves it along---into a manageable size drum ---i will re assemble the chute and vented lid set up i was using ---and take some pics ---had a lot more pics of construction and set up ---my old comp system died awhile back --a friend download the drive onto a cloud----it must have rained away by now
that idea seems to resemble the way a clivas multrum works , i had looked into these ideas and several others---mostly all of them are large systems to build and would take up more space , materials and time than i wanted to use, my version of Chuck Henrys auger has worked well enough for me , its been out of use now for awhile as the lure of indoor water flushing loo is too strong---my wendy howard system is coming online---but its rugged simple and easy to make with a few handtools---and a small bit of welding---which might need to be done by someone else for some people---but its easy and quick so should nt be expensive----it deposited into a half size plastic drum ---which has a lid with a rubber seal and a retaining clip ring
just finishing off my version of the wendy howard system , just bought a large bag of bark chippings and wait for delivery , also in ireland , so it was a good read about your system ,i have been a longtime convert but only recently built up something---part of my slow progression to off grid and taking responsibility for my output and lessen the pollution of groundwater. Did you have to insulate your IBC ---i have sourced the worms from an old dung heap out in the elements ---they dont seem to be effected by the colder ===although milder ----winters we have mostly ===,,and did your system recover and start up again ,cheers ,tony
like the heavy duty plastic parts , much better and sure to last---my worm composter system ---still under final construction ---is a wavin pipe ---lengthways -----i will adding in a lacto solution to the bedding material every now and then --as per the terra preta sanitation method---the outflow is into a "forest floor" of sorts but i am collecting materials for an under cover modular pond to make use of a further treatment by using the azolla weed pond/trench . ---heres a modular reed bed system
i use the grey colouredpaste they sell at hardware store in small tubs ---linseed oil based ---safe for drinking water ---and the "hair" i use is hemp or flax soft rope /twine they sell ---its the old standby for all coarse threaded joins ---beats the use of those tapes
i think his blue rendered barrel is like a giant pot on top of a stove ---the red rendering part of the drawing ---so hot water is going to generated from the bottom ---which should in some part heat his copper coil --the well water in would just be topping evaporating losses ---with a ballcock fitted---perhaps there should be another hot outlet to the system
theres a lot more info on this at SuSana .org , and pics of actual working examples of the kit that has been developed ---all injection moulded ---there must have been some further advancements made---my latest thinking of this system ----treat the deposited material with lacto solution ----as done with terra preta sanitation---when collection barrel is full --- tip contents into a wendy worm system . This combo of treatment seems to be capable of up to 99 % pathogen removal---good news for high water table /hardpan /clay ground types
yes the belt convey system is nice ,that one shown is a lot better than the types i found 4 tears ago ----but the method of use is not the same as an auger type ---which rotates and turns the waste and cover material into the compost material ---a bed of shavings/pine needle/leaves/chopped miscanthus --and rotation moves the whole lot a stage further along to the exit pipe ---dropping down into a composting barrel----- a big problem for me ---the belt type would be a lot harder to make and all the fiddley bits getting coated with poo bits over time---the auger self cleans as it turns into the compost material bed ---mostly ---any thing left thats too visible ---throw in more scoops of cover mix stuff------this was a problem for my system ----it worked but ----to well ---i used a double blade ---should be a single ----and my kids were younger ---so it was great fun to throw lots of paper and mix into it---keep pulling the lever---i went through bags of miscanthus chopped grass----also a few toys ---small teddy bear ---small transformer----passed through the system ---into and onto a far distant galaxy---never to be seen again ----well i fished them out after a few months and into the burn barrel.
yes it does work and t /paper can be used in it ,copes well with moderate use--- but has n t been for awhile /lately as its in a separate outdoor hut and i built a wendy howard style system with a water flush loo ---indoors ---the auger style toilet is commercially made ---but i have no idea where it could be purchased from or parts for it ---theres a lot of them in use in south america somewhere---made mine up from scrounged piping ---which is all standard sizes available from farm co op stores or building hardware supply yards----the racheting mechanism ---which allows the back and forth movement of my flush lever ---is from a bicycle rear sprocket
yes we have lots of "clever trevors" --(thanks Ian Dury ) who keep coming out with hand lever press to hydraulic powered devises to make briquettes from shredded wet paper , dry them out and burn in your stove ---but its the stuff of urban legend almost----complete waste of time----the only processing routine i follow with cardboard or newsprint ---is to make rough parcels of twigs --wrapped up ---and placed into the burn chamber---no glossy paper---its full of chalk---makes abundant ash
the concept of the heated flow of gas out the riser and into bell and benchs , then up out the flue has been explained by Matt Remine of Walker Stove s ----and others ----check out his youtube clips ----as to why it works ----its not really just that hot air rises ----its flow or movement of the hot gas from high to low pressure and how this is happening as the hot gas gives up its heat into the masonry ---as far as i can make out. My biggest motivation for building my stove was safety---- no night time smouldering fire inside my cottage ---no carbon monoxide---no creosote chimney fire---its a relief now to go to bed with out this on my mind ---as i have done for decades---its a huge plus for me---all the rest of the stoves positives are a bonus on top of this
the hempcrete binder is a mix of hydrated lime and hydraulic lime ,sometimes an extra dash of wood ash , this mix sets up a lot quicker than just the hydrated lime by its self , might help in the process---as was the suggestion of some portland cement to be added.
hello ,took me awhile to find your build ,--- my search method is like a drunk blindfolded man stumbling around a coal mine , hope you found a solution for the flue ---if not --you could weld up a solution ---perhaps make up your own sections---the pipe layouts are on the net , any progress on your doors , the layout pics looked good, did the cast iron top work out, still working around my stove ---making the 2nd cast concrete worktop at the moment
Jean Pain s motive i dont think was to just create hot water and use the methane from his mounds ---these were the side effects /extras/bonus of the process---he wanted to reduce the annual fires through the section of forest he managed and change the old methods of the past , the forest was thinned out and trimmed ,firebreaks maintained and this material was usually heaped up to be burnt or just left on the ground---he thought that instead it should be composted down --on a large scale and the end result returned back onto the forest floor ---improve the soil and retain moisture ---reduce fire risk at the same time---section by section of course ---a lifetimes of work for anyone--but it was to hopefully introduce a new practice of forest management for the future----being frugal and not wanting to waste or ignore the mounds other potential plus his ability to tinker and homebrew engineer led on to the hot water and methane---check out his methane gas powered citroen 2cv van --a compresser was used to fill a welding gas "bottle"---diy style ----and strapped to roof----madman genius
matt opens the hives at the bottom to harvest some honey in combs but not a lot or often seems to be his method, i have watched a few ways of hollowing out the logs with a chainsaw attached to a jig , matts way using fire and the longhandle chisel blade ---which you learn to make ---as part of his course he offered------ is to make a person appreciate the hard work a bee and the hive go through to make honey i think , a great man and his approach to how they should be kept influenced my hive build totally.
i dont believe any one could make and run a jean pain system work other than the man himself, he unfortunately passed before his vast amount of experience could be recorded and explained better , there are better sources of information , of his work and translations of a book ,some home film footage ,interviews of himself and some decades later of his brother still working the garden he created.
ask Matt if his outdoor water boiler could be scaled up , for a bigger firebox and flue size, can t cook on of course and maybe not bake in it because of dioxin issues---but give you a huge amount of hot water
sorry i can t be much help on this , my stove build followed a set of plans from Matt Walker Stoves and these are built very different to what you are trying out , i have no experience with other stove builds , i think your build is closer to the batch box style ,perhaps advise from reading up on Peter v/d Berg s site or if you log into the Vortex type stoves from the donkey 32 site ,were they build experimental masonry stoves and its members would have tried out many more ideas ---they would have more valid experience and comments to offer, goodluck with the build.
Last year the hive slowly died out , two big swarms left ,and the rest just never recovered in numbers and by feb/march of this year there was no activity-----but i had noticed a change over from the small dark bee in the first couple of years to a yellow and black honeybee type ---i was going to lift the hive down from its position ---i had dismantled the ladder access around it earlier on in april---- as i have fenced off the small field beneath it ---for my mucovy ducks---did nt want them using that as a roost ---then yesterday ---these arrived ---filled the air around us with humming to announce their coming in---we stood under the hive and watched them ---again the odd few landing on us ---no aggression from them ----but they are hybrids and mostly yellow and blacks again ---i suspect them to have come from a set up of about 20 hives about 2 kilometers from me.
hope to install the oven side of the stove ---soon as some warmer dry weather returns --then i will be able to update some more running experiences of it ---till then ---heres another stove build picture ----from japan ---very nice build---and his permaculture documentry film ---Life at Kuras Hinone
sorry you mentioned videos ? ---i dont do those ---it takes all of my computtor skill as it is to just one finger type replies on here-----making a video ---well thats all voodoo to me ---i would run the risk of tripping my brain switch.
all the Matt Walker stoves have a bypass system in the design , it exits as a short more direct path to the flue pipe --used when the fire is first started up ---very usefull when the stove is cold ---gets the fire to burn hotter/faster for the first 10 mins or so---heats up the flue pipe and the core ---gets the stove to start drawing the gasses through its channels ---then it is closed off to redirect the gasses to pass over the oven box---not over the hot water jacket-----you do not want to expose the water jacket to intense direct heat----there is a danger in trying to do this ---this object here is to safely build up heat in the hot water tank ---no need to make it boil as quick as possible----we are nt going to run a steam locomotive----if you want instant hot water ---place a pot of it over the glass were the core is exiting at over 400C up to 600/700 C .
Samuel , placement of the water heating jacket can be seen in the start of my build pictures , i did not make the unit ---was a lucky find ---i just modified/changed the water connection points to better suit my plan ----its rated for 4 or 5KW according to the sizing ---for use in a traditional wood burning stove/range --and would be placed in the back or side of the firebox ----plus be exposed to direct flame--- possibly in 400 to 600 C -----were as in the position in the continental stove this would be not in a direct flame and instead heated by the flue gas at a temperature of around the 200/230 C---maximum , so i am expecting it to be a slower build up of heated water---- and as my hot water tank is much smaller than the tanks needed to match a 4/5 Kw plate water jacket----perhaps it will be a better match up ---of course a wood burner is not a constant heat source at a constant temperature---and i dont need the water to be supplied at a scalding heat ---50/55 C at most----temperature control you asked about ---well thats not a real precise option for wood burning ---and approximates can only be found by experience ----by using my stove over a longer period---plus each stove is different and has its own quirks or tweaks to operate it.
for Samuel , sorry did not answer a lot of what you asked , as i had not been running my stove for very long , my cooking experience on it is not much ---as it not in my main house , i have done a few experiments of boiling pots of water and keeping them warm on the stove top surfaces to try and establish the best spots or how to use the stovetop for best effect---the old cottage that the stove is in ---is still being worked on ---so lots of dust ----not good for cooking ----no water connected---plumbing is being done ---and i need to make some concrete worktops either side of the stove---to place the sinks in and for he taps to be positioned----asking about making the entire stove top from one piece of steel ----this would not work ---there would be too much distortion from the different levels of heat across its under surface---even if you used a steel plate of very thick cross section---perhaps 20 mm or thicker that might work ---but thats only a might ---there are fabrication methods and techniques to deal with this ---but then you are building a welded up steel stove ---look up the types of stove made by the Amish . I used a modular type build method /construction for my stove top-- to suit the size of the glass cooktop i had found---and to make best use of the granite paving slabs sizes ---these could have been steel plates cut to suit ---but i wanted the stone---the modular construction also allows the worktop to expand and move as it needs to with out distortion or warping---my stove top granite surface on the left side barely gets warm --whilest on the right side that can simmer pots of water. My ceramic glasstop has the 4 sections , first one above the core exit goes to over 400 C within 10 mins of fire start up ---i can only read up to 400 with my meter ---the second plate area will read 380C --third one 320C , forth one reads 260C --this drops down after 30mins----will answer some more later
the hot water connection---top red knob is the temperature and pressure release valve --its rated at 90 C and 7 bar---too much really ---found another one rated at 85 C and 3 bar---the capped tube next to it ----will be used when i want to acid flush out the water jacket---which would require the system to be drained ----by opening the large valve at the bottom ----this drains into a pipe through the floor and exits outside into a runoff channel----the capped tube would be then opened and the flushing acid poured in ----cap back on and let it sit for awhile ----start to refill the system with some water -----start up the stove---to warm up the descaler mix ----then open lower valve and flush out the system with lots of water---the copper pipes are connected to the stainless pipes of waterjacket by truck/car radiator hose rated at 120C and 20 psi -----as trying to find a brass connector to match the two differant OD of the pipes is not possible ----my small local hardware store just does not have the largest stock or hard to source items---and thats it for now ---hot water to fllow when the supply tank is connected and the main line in from my borehole.
modified a stainless steel barrel for hot water tank , top manifold has 2 outlets --larger one to supply shower and smaller outlet will split into 2 for supply on two kitchen sinks---the 90 degree fitting at the bottom is the cold line in from the supply tank ---then 2 sections of pipe underneath ---one is exit for the cooler supply down into the water jacket ---second one is for the hotter water rising up from the water jacket ---this section of pipe protrudes about 9 inches up inside the barrel-----then a section of pipe to vent air bubbles and any overflow of hot water ----of course the barrel will be laying down in its final working position
i can see a health and safety issue with that ,very risky , he s not wearing wellies ---and that particular organic model of lawnmower has a design flaw ---the exhaust is rear facing and at some point he is going to step in some thing
this is for Sarah , ---Heating Water With Fire-Homewood Stoves , this article has been my guideline ,and the best i have ever found ---and hes not trying to just plug his own product----
well sorry to read the plans are not in your budget , as they are vital to building one of these stoves---and without them trying to get the internal working and layout from pictures of other builds is difficult for a first time build of one of these---i know as i thought in the same way---that i could save that outlay and put the money into buying materials for the build---but you can only back engineer this so far and lots of the important details are are hard to make out clearly---as helpfull as majority of people on this site are ---and many enthusiasts for building these type stoves----we are also respectful to Matts design copyrights and the license . All of the questions you ask are talked about in Matts broaudio youtube sessions , its all in those --takes some time and patience to get through it all ---took me ages and repeated viewings plus reading as many posts as i could find of his --about stoves and how these really work and why they do---my own view points are limited compared to his experience---and i am still only a beginner at this----so persevere and research ----success and goodluck for your future build
my stove is 2030mm long 800mm wide and 930mm in hight , my dimensions are more than Matts design sizes as i tried to keep to use of full size bricks with minimal cutting and the extended length mostly to house the hot water jacket. The stove plans are a guide and not an exact build brick by brick description ----everyones build will become unique as it progresses ---buy all the common clay bricks from one source or batch ---clay bricks vary a lot from batch to batch --so if they are second hand make sure to buy more than needed ---then dry build your stove layer by layer---dont cut any of your chosen bricks ---or the expensive insulated firebricks /ceramic blokboard that the core is made from---use any other bits and pieces of old bricks /blocks/wood planks---cut these to suit ---build at your own pace and anywhere you have some space to use---its just a full size model---now you will be able to see how it works ----now other peoples build pictures and descriptions /advise will start to make sense----and follow some of the builds ----then start to measure for where you would have to place /position the cooktop and oven --and the final top capping of the stove ----now you can shop for these pieces with sizes in mind ---and have a good idea of where you can re arrange the build to suit what you can find---or would like ---make some small changes or additions for cosmetic looks and style. Take your time ---it will come together and happen before you---then when you can get to do the final mortar build it ---it will be a much easier and relaxing paced build.
most of the answers would become self explaining in the set of drawings /plans for these stoves --for the sizes and the layout of the internal flue passage ways , my build is an adaption of the continental stove design of Matts---- the water heating jacket is placed at the end of the stoves flue heat path ---as per his advice ,and the reasoning for this he has explained in one of his broaudio youtube posts . I contacted Matt via email when my build was at the stage of trying to work out the best way for me to re -route the hot flue gas over the water heating jacket ----a part of Matts customer service --that you get when you buy his plans ----sorry i lack the full understanding of the stoves internal layout as it designed around cross sectional sizes and internal surface areas matched to flue sizes and the volumes of the firebox plus the secondary burn chamber ---with heat outputs and fire burn times a part of the calculations ---also being tuned for this by the primary and secondary air inlet sizes---by sticking to the plans as close as possible the you get to its predicted output. Matt states the heat output as 1.9 kw -- for the riserless core in the 6 inch flue ---sorry must go ---will post more
i will be taking some pics of course ---its a thermosiphon system no electric pump or valves involved using a stainless steel water jacket ---roughly 12 x 13 inches at 1 3/4 inch width ---which has 1 1/4 inch sized piping in and out-----colder water feeds to the bottom of it and the heated water rising up into the top outlet----both pipes exit side ways out through the stove body and then do a 90 degree turn and vertical straight up through the ceiling /floor above the stove ---through another ceiling/floor -----into the hot water tank --- about 13 feet above in hight ---using the psi calculator ---0.433 x 13 ---gives me about 5.6 psi of water pressure downstairs. The hot water tank is a stainless steel barrel at 209 liters (45 gallons ) which is fed into by a separate cold water tank above it ---the hot water tank also has an overflow pipe venting into the cold water tank ---the cold water tank is fed by its own supply line and regulated by a ballcock valve ---and has an overflow pipe to outside the building. thats all for now ---took me ages of working out and the smoke pouring out of my ears with all the thinking and over thinking it .
