prairie dog removal?

Wondering if anyone out there has tried to use fresh "very large" snake poop dropped down active holes? Snakes are listed as a natural predators for the burrowing bunch...? I am thinking that if I were a prairie dog and a pile of python poop suddenly popped up in my plucky parlor...I would be packing my prairie ars pretty quick. Any thoughts on this approach?

What is the issue with such dogs?

How do you find snake poop to begin with?

I have seen large rattlesnake dens full of discarded skins though I have never seen snake poop.

Crawling into a den to look for poop does not sound too appealing.

I would rather drop a snake into the prairie dog holes or better yet a dead snake.

John, prairie dogs are big burrowing rodents.

Prairie dogs are keystone animals and some species are threatened, so I'd keep that in mind.

I doubt dropping snake poop in their holes would do anything, but my battles with northern pocket gophers have left me rather despondent.

We have yellow bellied marmots here, and they don't seem to care what humans do to mess with their homes. If anything they just move to another burrow right next door.

A lot of these burrowing rodents end up sharing burrows with certain types of snakes, so I'd go with dog poop. That might be a little more alarming. I've put lots of dog poop in gopher holes and it didn't bother them one bit, though.

Good question, John...Why are Prairie dogs a problem? Broken bones and diseases!...Live stock generally can avoid the holes...but when they don't it is deadly. I have seen broken legs...for large stock this is a death sentence, broken horns that won't stop gushing blood, (animal trips and does a head plant...then birds of prey and carrion eaters won't leave the bleeding , broken horn site alone, eventually pecking out the animals eyes...this happened to one of my oxen, broken shoulders in horses, happened to my neighbor's horse, we had to shoot him for her...very sad! etc. I have seen holes that drop straight down for over 3 feet. Not to mention the destruction of crop land and pasture. I personally have a dog village on a little hill side. Here in New Mexico these cute little critters occasionally have been linked to Bubonic plague and HantaVirus deaths in people. This is where the  cheeky expression in New Mexico..."Home of the FLEA and Land of the PLAGUE"...comes from. Most people want to shoot or poison them, I just want to "encourage them to go somewhere else".

Dear Anne Miller, I have given the "where to find snake poop" some thought...crawling into a snake den...nope. Thinking...Craigs List...? In our region, there are several folks around that have/sell Pythons. I think they feed rodents to these big snakes. Fresh poo laced with rodent parts??

I have a prairie dog town , and I am giving much thought to how to discourage them, or rather encourage them to move on.

Today I discovered they have seriously and literally undermined half a dozen fence posts.

I was on my tractor, so I put dirt down those holes.  If they are using the filled holes, the prairie dogs will just re-dig.

I have plenty to do without refilling every few days.

What do others do?  

I’m considering putting visual barriers up, since prairie dogs’ quality of life includes a sentry at the door, surveying all directions for approaching predators.

I have tried putting pallet boards down their holes but it hasn’t worked.

I don’t even want to eradicate them, there are just too many!  (Imagine the prairie dog’s answer:  “look who’s talking.  It’s a case of the pot calling the kettle black!”

What do others do to seriously discourage them?

Currently there’s a thread discussing the use of cayenne or other capsaicin rich pepper powder to discourage ants and termites.  It has me thinking of putting cayenne (90,000 scoville units) a lot of down the hole before I fill with dirt and gravel.

Also a thread on uses for old nails and other rusty bits of scrap metal…. I am wondering about that too.

Do others have any thoughts?

The main issue seems to be that where livestock are fenced and protected from predation through lethal means, prairie dogs’ predators are reduced as well. Like many burrowers, prairie dogs are also often attracted to competitor unoccupied and predator reduced compacted land where the vegetation benefits greatly from improved aeration and water infiltration from their burrows. These burrows often look like hydroponic tubes full of root tips.

The sad effects on cattle are symptoms of a grazing system destined to fail, and I like the out of the box thinking of the OP. The best alternative seems to be groups of livestock guardian dogs being used instead or as the first alternative of artificial lethal means (poison, guns) for controlling wolf, coyote, cougar and grizzly bear predation. My first park ranger boss worked in the Wind Rivers previously and took part in a large study showing livestock leg breakages are reduced to a greater extent than predators are able to take with the careful use of LGDs causing a reduction of predation by 90-98%. This prairies dog problem is the solution for other likely current problems (compaction and sub-ideal water infiltration), and it is likely the solution to another problem (predation) is exacerbating this prairie dog problem. I doubt it will be as simple as snake poop, but I would be interested if it gets results!

Too true, Ben, and thanks for taking an interest.

Mine is a small parcel, and when I acquired it, it had the appearance of having been abandoned to the deer for some time.

Last summer I had a fence built around the pasture, brought in sheep and goats to chew down the senescent vegetation remains.  And an LGD.

The winter was dry, draught in western USA in making international news, this small parcel of land is part of it!

Having fenced out and deterred the coyotes, the only remaining predators are the eagles, owls and other birds of prey.  I have been thinking about bringing in a ratter type dog, because I don’t want to eradicate a keystone species!  Just trying to restore some balance!  I believe my management practices will benefit the prairie dogs, eventually.

I am going to put cayenne 90 scoville units down the excavations under my fence posts which appear to extend under my compacted gravel driveway.  Last time I filled I just pushed the loose dirt in.  It was opened again in two days!

I notice that my neighbor’s “hay” field has an enormous new excavation nearby.  They haven’t made any management changes that I have been aware of… but they are fairly recent owners and don’t appear to have any agricultural background.  They fired the man who used to farm their field, and I know the farmer was frustrated with the situation because my neighbors didn’t want him to bring cattle in temporarily (because of the flies they associate with cattle) …. Their new deal involves another farmer, and neighbors doing their own irrigating.  Last year’s yield was less than half of the prior farmer’s.

My neighbors retired here from an urban area, and their primary use for the field is visual. From my place, in certain times of year, it looks to me like the foreground of a Van Gogh painting.

So, I have the benefit of living in a natural experiment, their practices compared to mine.  I see advantages to that!

Off to work with shovel, gravel, and a pint jar of cayenne powder!

Gross factor warning, continue reading at your own risk. This is Permies tho so maybe not too bad for most of us here.

I don’t have prairie dogs, but I did have a wild bout with gophers for a while.

I used human urine. I collected my own then poured it down all of their holes.
I had saved up multiple gallons over time, then went over, cleared the mound a bit, upended a milk jug over each of the exposed holes, and let it percolate in.

I think I did this two or three times and they’re all gone.
I haven’t seen a single mound in my yard since then, and that was at least a year ago, probably more.

No promises but wishing everyone battling rodents  the very best of luck!

Urine could work as a deterrent.  I do put big dog turds down the holes.  I hope that, as herbivores, they might be truly offended by the scent of fecal matter which could contain prairie dog remains.

I filled the entrances to 3 burrows this afternoon.  I photographed the process “kind of”.  It is pretty hard to get photos of dark holes in very bright light.

First hole, I put
2 Tablespoons of ground cayenne about 18 inches down, when the burrow went horizontal.  

Fist sized rocks to block the burrow, a piece of multi folded chiken wire, then native soil, which I tamped down with a shovel handle.

Second and third holes I didn’t take as detailed notes as I was trying to get to the earth friendly farm store.

I did incorporate some wood chips with the native soil and tamped…. Also had a foot long piece of wood pole, I used.

Pictures:

Oops chose submit instead of add another image

Here are the last photos of filling the first hole.

I have been thinking about the possible role of compaction, and prairie dogs aerating the soil…. It’s probably unlikely in my town 🤣.  (Wow!  I “own” a whole town?). The prairie dogs have been working on their project for a long time.  There haven’t routinely been tractors on it as there’s not enough water to farm… and the land hasn’t been heavily stocked with livestock either.  My guess is that whatever compaction may have occurred in the past, the prairie dogs have long since restored aeration and mixing.

But here’s how I think I will test for compaction.  I have a stainless steel compost thermometer.  The probe is about 20 inches long, pointed and very smooth.  I can just push it straight down into the soil, and see if it gets to a harder layer to push through.  

But my 2 days of irrigation water starts tomorrow at 2 p m sharp.  And this year we are all paying very close attention to whose turn is whose!  The reservoir is only holding enough for 22 days total water.  (A normal year would have closer to 120 days.). My neighbors and I take turns with the irrigation water.  I will be lucky to have a total of 6 days of water.  2 days out of every week.

My prairie dog town is in the lowest third of my field.  I will be trying to get the water to flow down their burrows, which will discourage them some, I hope.  That is the most frequently cited method of prairie dog discouragement among the old timers in this region.

Wetting the soil unevenly might skew the results of my compaction testing, but I am sure to learn something!

Years ago, I had a friend who was removing squirrels from his property.

He caught the squirrel in a can then drove to the country to release the squirrels.

Maybe this would work for prairie dogs?

Trap, relocate and release: it’s an interesting and attractive idea for folks with some sensibilities.  

One thing it doesn’t consider is that the animal being relocated is entirely unfamiliar with the new surroundings.  Like if someone trapped me and “released” me in Mongolia or the Amazon, or atop a nearby 14er.  I don’t know where there is shelter food or water, I am invading home territories of my same species, where the resources are already allocated and likely already fully utilized.  And possibly I am carrying a disease dangerous to them.

And then there’s the ethical question of relocating a “pest” species to someone else’s neighborhood.  If they don’t already have PDs, maybe they don’t want them!  Same way I don’t want puppies and kittens dumped at my driveway.

Here’s my latest scheme to discourage, not eradicate:  plant datura seeds in the disturbed soil at their burrow entrances.  If the seeds grow, they will block the prairie dogs’ view.  The PDs will (maybe) mow/chew it down,  in the process ingesting powerful alkaloids.  If afflicted, will they go underground?  (where, if they die, their family will eat them).  Will they stumble about on the surface and be ready pickings for birds of prey?

This idea needs more thinking, will the alkaloids exist unaltered in the PD, and have an effect on the creature who consumes it?  (Birds of prey?  Or my cat?). If the alkaloids are not metabolized in the first eater’s body, it’s probably not a good idea.

More scheming!

One day I will hit upon something.

I wonder if installing a very tall perch for large raptors in the vicinity of the town would discourage the Prairie Dogs?  

It’s definitely on my to do list!  There’s a lumber mill nearby I do a lot of business with.  I bet they could fix me right up!

I was just down there visiting the town and thinking about it all.

I realize there are people who do not understand why there can be so much opposition to a keystone species.  I see it as a matter of balance.  There are too many prairie dogs.  (I imagine the prairie dog saying to the human “look who’s talking!”🤣)

One thing that hasn’t been brought up yet is the desertification that occurs with too many burrows.  

Interesting to note that the iconic view of the Saraha Desert; miles and miles and miles of sand dunes, no water or  vegetation in sight was not always like that, nor the “fertile crescent”,  the territory around and between the Tigris and the Euphrates Rivers, said to be the cradle of civilization, it was fertile as the name suggests, lush and green, possibly garden of eden like.

It wasn’t prairie dogs who desertified there.  Nope.  They are innocent of those two!

We’re already desert here.  It’s a brittle environment.  The Holocene is history, and we are teetering on the brink of losing plant and soil communities entirely, not just here, but everywhere, and with them go all the organisms they support.

When the burrows perforate and permeate the soil several feet down, then the soil moisture is lost.  The residual moisture that supports the deep rooted perennials is lost.  

For people who live with moisture and humidity, I guess it’s hard to imagine that level of aridity, or it’s not automatically included in the picture.

When I moved here from the costal climate where I was born, I was astonished by how the dryness affected my life. In a gentle misting rain, clothes on the line will still dry.  A box of crackers doesn’t get stale if left unsealed.  If you lay a slice of bread on the countertop, then get distracted, the bread will be dry on the surface when you return.

The air is actively desiccating everything at all times.  A few burrows?  No big deal.  Honeycomb of burrows and fertility is lost with the moisture.

Maybe I am more fanatic than most, but when the green plants are gone, where is the oxygen required by most living animals going to come from?

I want healthy, life-supporting soil for ALL of us, every organism in the complex web of life.  Or maybe I am just fooling myself and these are just excuses.  Hard to be objective about our own subjectivity!🤣


I took a few pictures to show how dry it is in “prairie dog town”, and tried to show the green vegetation in the adjacent ground.  There are active burrows in the green areas, but the burrows are a lot sparser.  That’s my objective.