I haven't. And I frankly can't imagine doing so after seeing what people get for that work. And like, I believe in paying people a fair wage, I just can't afford it and also feel like I can do a half-assed job by myself without getting anyone killed (unlike hiring a chimney guy or an electrician for tasks beyond my comfort). So I guess, to actually answer the question, I'd change my mind if they could work very fast or very cheap. (But I don't fault them when they don't.)
I want to incorporate flowers and plants into my design.
Could a permaculture designer help me with this?
Do you feel he/she could build one for me?
Observe the best spot for one? And pick the most soothing plants?
This is the only way I would ever need to hire a permaculture designer...
Invasive plants are Earth's way of insisting we notice her medicines. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Everyone learns what works by learning what doesn't work. Stephen Herrod Buhner
I think if I was hiring someone to help me with a project I would want someone who could listen to what I want, take into account the normal physical and financial constraints you would expect, and come up with a solution that I wouldn't have thought of myself.
I would need to be able to trust them, otherwise the money spent would be wasted as I wouldn't feel happy implementing the ideas given. Some sort of track history with examples of previous projects - preferably followed up after a few years to see 'before' and 'after' would help with this.
permaculture polyculture design
In terms of product, I would be happy without a glossy brochure, but a simple talk through, preferably on site, with different options/timescales would be great. A virtual copy of spreadsheets and plans would be fine for me.
I am pretty close to Christopher on this. The fun is in doing it myself. So, while I can see myself taking a PDC some day, I can’t see myself hiring someone. As for hiring myself out at some point in the future…nah, I would do it for free.
If there is one thing the Wizard of Oz has taught me, it is not to trust school teachers on bicycles.
Nancy Reading wrote:I think if I was hiring someone to help me with a project I would want someone who could listen to what I want, take into account the normal physical and financial constraints you would expect, and come up with a solution that I wouldn't have thought of myself.
I would need to be able to trust them, otherwise the money spent would be wasted as I wouldn't feel happy implementing the ideas given. Some sort of track history with examples of previous projects - preferably followed up after a few years to see 'before' and 'after' would help with this.
permaculture polyculture design
In terms of product, I would be happy without a glossy brochure, but a simple talk through, preferably on site, with different options/timescales would be great. A virtual copy of spreadsheets and plans would be fine for me.
This - 100%. With my and my husband's physical struggles, I want them first to listen, well. Then, I'd want them to carry it out, with results that I can maintain, myself. I'm not confident in my knowledge of all the elements that would come into play, on our land, I know we're not physically capable of making it all happen, and have often thought of trying to find someone who could.
"The only thing...more expensive than education is ignorance."~Ben Franklin. "We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light." ~ Plato
Didn't Mr. Mollison say that the "only limits were the imagination of the designer"? Constantly I wish I could hire someone's imagination, to look at my itty bitty city lot, and and just tell me some things I could do with it. But I will never in this life be able to afford to pay for that!
How can the gap be bridged between people who need designers but can't afford to pay them what they deserve to be paid? If that conundrum could be solved, this world would absolutely come alive with gardens, really really fast, I think.
“If we are honest, we can still love what we are, we can find all the good there is to find, and we may find ways to enhance that good, and to find a new kind of living world which is appropriate for our time.” ― Christopher Alexander
Purposeful with their public portfolio of previous projects
D.I.T.Y. friendly (Do it Together / Yourself). And last but not least...
Able to creatively look within and through the client's constraints (especially financial) to envision the permaculture possible.
Rachel Lindsay wrote: Didn't Mr. Mollison say that the "only limits were the imagination of the designer"? Constantly I wish I could hire someone's imagination, to look at my itty bitty city lot, and and just tell me some things I could do with it. But I will never in this life be able to afford to pay for that!
How can the gap be bridged between people who need designers but can't afford to pay them what they deserve to be paid? If that conundrum could be solved, this world would absolutely come alive with gardens, really really fast, I think.
Yes, that Mollisonian saying is pretty cool, Rachel! Interesting enough, I noticed in addition to imagination, in the big black book he lists "information" as another limit. But nowadays with a plethora of books and computers and the internet (and this website) at our disposal, we've truly entered an age where information can be consumed and integrated radically quickly...and even displayed artfully.
Let's see. How to bridge the gap? Ideas off the top of my head:
A) Altruistic designer who does it for the joy of it all, or at reduced price to still "obtain a yield" -- cover their food / time / energy costs of making the design.
B) Non-profit designer who is paid by alternative means by a third party as an act of service. Provides high quality but the customer's bill is shifted elsewhere.
C) Kick-back designer who receives the first (or second or third) fruits of the client's yield of their design.
D) Micro-designer who breaks bigger permaculture consultations into small, bite-sized or nano-scale design products for lesser coin than a full consultation. Imagine a la carte purchases for various steps of the permaculture process, or sectors, or zones, or specific designed elements.
E) Rapid-designer who does things fast and sloppy with plenty of imaginative sprinkles. Imagine renting a designer for a 7 minute design session, 7 hour design session, or 7 day design session.
Ideally, a permaculture designer gets *plenty* of in person contact time with the client and project steward and the site itself. There really is no substitute for the principle to "Observe and Interact" after all.
But I wonder, when it comes to remote permaculture design work, how do folks feel?
There is a bunch that *can* be gathered digitally through maps and climate data and video chats, photos, shared drives and the like. Remote design can keep costs down big time, helping bridge the financial gap.
So what do you think: for our budget-friendly permaculture designer, how does he or she ideally interact with you as a client if not in person on site?
What specific flavors of technology would you embrace... or avoid?
Example of some tech flavors off the top of my head:
-Plain old telephone calls and email back and forth,
-Zoom,
-FaceTime video chats,
-Google Meet,
-Google Drive,
-Migratory swallow carrying the design in a coconut by the husk,
-Openly sharing design work on the permies.com forum,
-PurpleMoosage,
-DropBox
-WhatsApp
-Signal
Are there strong preferences on technology flavors for communication between a remote designer and client? Thank you for your thoughts and feedback!
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