How do you fertilize your squash plants?

Cucurbits are often described as being "heavy feeders," but they also don't do well with too much nitrogen. Or so they say.

My best squash results this year have come from some seed I sowed directly in a pile of newly received manure+stable scrapings as part of a crude testing regime before putting it on the garden. A couple of those plants have grown long and produced many flowers and multiple very nice fruit. This seed was from my own saved stuff so I guess there's a fair amount of variation between plants, but still, it's not expected.

Anyway, I wonder about your experience and, especially, what you do using organic+ and permaculture methods beyond manuring and compost of various sorts.

I'm still new at squash but so far I've had the best luck by piling the animal manure, mixed with their bedding and any leftover hay they didn't eat, make a pile as tall as I am, and as long as it will go.  Build it up all winter.  It steams and gets lovely and hot.  A month before the rainy season ends (about three weeks before the last frost date) I stick the seeds in the top of the manure pile and watch the squash grow.  This year, I haven't had to water that squash patch yet.  This is pretty amazing as we don't normally get rain in the summer, but this year we did get some showers in May, so really, it's only been about three months without watering the squash.  These have produced some of the most delicious squash I've had in my life.

Another squash patch include a strip just outside the chicken yard.  These have drip irrigation and get water about once a week.  They aren't doing as well, but I suspect that's more because of lack of water than soil nutrients.  

The third patch is from the biggest squash we had last year.  I left it outside to rot in a not-so-fertile part of the garden.  No water, no mulch, no soil fertility to speak of.  Yet, it's growing the best of all.

I basically plant the seeds or plants with four real leaves on compost made from hay or lawn clippings and water them lots .
Works for me
David

Interesting! So I'm not the only one who has good luck with higher nitrogen levels and growing squash. I wonder if there are different cultivars or something?

I grow mine in the 3 sisters. The only fertilizer that they get is rare kitchen scraps and the chop and drop of the same location. Most years the squash does about the same as everyone else or better. Some years (like this year) suck and the squash fairs poorly.

It could be the kind of squash.  I'm growing mostly Maxima squash.  This is my second year of creating a landrace squash and it's been amazing.  To start the mix, I chose my favourite which is buttercup.  Added in an orange cinderella squash because it grows like stink with very little water, and Carol Deppe's sweet meat organ homestead squash because it has such a large flesh to seed ratio.  This year, I have a whole range of squash types and am heavily selecting for drought tolerance.  Like I said, two of my squash patches have had zero water since May - no rain, no irrigation, nothing!  They also all germinated from being direct sewn before our last frost date and survived a few light frosts.  

As for nitrogen.  I never really thought about it.  I guess the stuff next to the chickens would be pretty N rich.  

I don't know the chemistry, but maybe the compost/manure is more balanced than artificial Nitrogen would be?

I've been growing squash in a really nutrient-poor part of the garden, so I feel like they need some help beyond what the soil offers.  When I plant seeds, I dig down a few inches and blend in a handful of complete organic fertilizer a la Steve Solomon, top back with dirt, then plant.  By the time the seedlings are up and running, the fertilizer has started to break down and they just take off.   I haven't had too much nitrogen be an issue, probably because the soil I am working with is currently very nitrogen-poor to start.

R Ranson wrote:It could be the kind of squash.  I'm growing mostly Maxima squash.  This is my second year of creating a landrace squash and it's been amazing.  To start the mix, I chose my favourite which is buttercup.  Added in an orange cinderella squash because it grows like stink with very little water, and Carol Deppe's sweet meat organ homestead squash because it has such a large flesh to seed ratio.  This year, I have a whole range of squash types and am heavily selecting for drought tolerance.  Like I said, two of my squash patches have had zero water since May - no rain, no irrigation, nothing!  They also all germinated from being direct sewn before our last frost date and survived a few light frosts.  

As for nitrogen.  I never really thought about it.  I guess the stuff next to the chickens would be pretty N rich.  

I don't know the chemistry, but maybe the compost/manure is more balanced than artificial Nitrogen would be?

Interesting, this is my first year converting to landrace, but it was a bad year for squash. Mine I heavily favored kakai pumpkin since I love the hulless seeds that do not require deshelling. I did however have 5 other squash of kinds I've already forgotten the names to within pollination range.

K Putnam wrote:I've been growing squash in a really nutrient-poor part of the garden, so I feel like they need some help beyond what the soil offers.  When I plant seeds, I dig down a few inches and blend in a handful of complete organic fertilizer a la Steve Solomon, top back with dirt, then plant.  By the time the seedlings are up and running, the fertilizer has started to break down and they just take off.   I haven't had too much nitrogen be an issue, probably because the soil I am working with is currently very nitrogen-poor to start.

Do you grow anything there in the off season? If not then you could try growing a mulch crop like early spring beans that double as food and fertilizer?

Yes, I've been working on improving the soil there for three years, but it was covered in landscaping fabric and rocks for several years before that.  It was essentially red dust and rocks. So, getting vegetables to grow successfully there has been great, but I think they still need a bit of help, for both their health and for mine.  There is a strawberry patch that has suddenly started to take over that area, which I think is a sign that the fertility is starting to improve!

I pee around the base of them.

I don't use fertilizer on my farm, and therefore not on the squash either. I'm noticing this year that my squash field is getting a bit low on nutrients. So I'm intending to grow a mixed-species cover crop this winter. I'm intending to introduce some leguminous weeds into that field: I grew a patch of black medic seed this summer so I'll start with that as a suitable weed.

Joseph Lofthouse wrote:
I don't use fertilizer on my farm, and therefore not on the squash either. I'm noticing this year that my squash field is getting a bit low on nutrients. So I'm intending to grow a mixed-species cover crop this winter. I'm intending to introduce some leguminous weeds into that field: I grew a patch of black medic seed this summer so I'll start with that as a suitable weed.

Thanks, Joseph! Just so I understand clearly: Are green manures the only way you add nutrients to your soil (i.e., no animal manures etc.)?

I planted butternut squash into my yard this spring, just dug out some holes in the sod, mounded the soil up into a low hill, and added seeds.  I noticed by early June that the plants weren't growing as well as I'd hoped, and their leaves had a yellowish hue to them.  So I tried two things.

One, I went fishing in a lake I knew was filled with large bullhead catfish.  I buried a dead bullhead one foot deep and one foot away from each hill in Mid-June.

I then went into the run of my chicken coop, dug out a wheelbarrow of manure-infused soil, and added one shovelful of it to every hill.

The plants exploded in growth by July, and are now laden with squash.

I was so impressed, I've started burying fish and using chicken soil all around my garden.

chip sanft wrote:Thanks, Joseph! Just so I understand clearly: Are green manures the only way you add nutrients to your soil (i.e., no animal manures etc.)?

I grow a tremendous amount of weeds. The weeds and crop residues get returned to the soil exactly where they grew. Because of concerns about poisons, herbicides, pharmaceuticals, heavy metals, and weed seeds I do not bring any outside organic matter onto my farm: No compost. No manure. No wood.  

However, that isn't exactly the same as saying that my farm is devoid of animal manures... I put posts in the garden for the birds to rest on. They leave manure around the posts. The raccoons and skunks leave manure. The insects leave manure. Lots of insects die in my garden every fall. They contribute their bodies to the soil. Sometimes a bird or a mammal donates it's body to the farm.

I think of the fertility of my garden as a flow. Nutrients are coming in, and nutrients are leaving. As long as the inflow is about the same as the outflow, then fertility stays high. For example, I do not allow corn-stalks to leave my garden unless I am well paid for them. Because they represent next year's fertility.

To really do farming right. I should be living on my farm with a bunch of animals. Oh well, I make choices and live with the consequences, and make do as best as can be.

Joseph Lofthouse wrote:

chip sanft wrote:Thanks, Joseph! Just so I understand clearly: Are green manures the only way you add nutrients to your soil (i.e., no animal manures etc.)?

I grow a tremendous amount of weeds. The weeds and crop residues get returned to the soil exactly where they grew. Because of concerns about poisons, herbicides, pharmaceuticals, heavy metals, and weed seeds I do not bring any outside organic matter onto my farm: No compost. No manure. No wood.  

Awesome! Thinking about this and seeing the pics of your garden is amazing.

Joseph Lofthouse wrote:
To really do farming right. I should be living on my farm with a bunch of animals. Oh well, I make choices and live with the consequences, and make do as best as can be.

I don't completely agree about "right."  I'm not disagreeing with your personal idea of what you think would be "right" for you, but what I want to say is I think it is quite possible to "do farming right" without domestic animals.  Biointensive is a gardening/farming method that doesn't include domestic animals or bringing in outside materials, and it seems to work very well.  http://www.growbiointensive.org/

Some people don't want or can't have domestic animals, and some people feel that bringing in outside materials isn't sustainable, so I think it's important that people (including you) are modeling ways of growing food that don't demand those things.

I believe that my farm would be better if it included animals for the following reasons:

Pigs would eat the sunroots, rhizomous grasses, and thistles that have made about 20% of my farm unproductive because the weeds smother the crops.
Chickens would eat fruit-maggots and earwigs disrupting their life cycle so that I could grow non-buggy organic apples and apricots. Chickens could also weed problem areas.
Goats could prune back the lilac trees that are slowly taking over the yard, and that negatively impact anything growing near them.
It seems to me that a farm that includes domestic animals is more like a natural ecosystem, and less like an artificial theme park.

Then there is the kinship factor. I thrive when beautiful beings are sharing my space with me, and are depending on me to be their guardian and protector. I was born to nurture. Alas, I can't properly protect unless I am living with them, so for now I live alone with humans, and feel morose about it.

I agree that animals will happily do work  - which to them is just living and eating - which may be difficult for humans.  And I empathize with your feelings of wanting to nurture.  I wish you could be in a place to be able to do so.

I felt like this thread needed a photo of squash...

I grow my best squash from the plants on the 'cooking' compost heap- mostly built from sawdust and chicken poop. Have to be a bit careful as the pile settles around the plants, but they grow loads of fruit.

I tried buttercup seeds in a new area, a large brick window type box, replaced 6 inches of dirt with good soil, and have nurtured with worm castings, bananas, and lots of water. (Paid the grands a nickel per grasshopper, was great!) Had bees earlier, and other plants were pollinated and fruited, but sadly, no fruit. Now is too hot, really, mid Florida, but still getting flowers. Last year, had a small compost heap that squash volunteered from, and did well. Sad I had to move...not really, as have no more hoa police! So glad for all your input, thank you!

Florida here as well. Interesting thread since I haven't been able to grow a viable squash since I moved out of Ohio. Even my Seminole pumpkin experiment failed. I have pollinators, but they bypass my vegetables for the tons of spiderwort that is growing on our suburban lot. I have a flowering tree of some sort-I suspect it's an invasive privet- and the bees are all over it early spring and then they disappear. I planted patty pan surrounded by nasturtium, cosmos and Florida cranberry this spring. Saw ants on the flowers, but no bees and got no fruit. Guess if I try again this fall I'll have to hand pollinate. Pretty much the same deal with cukes, although my first garden here I did get a few.

I'm currently experimenting with zucchini transplants, one in a raised bed topped with leaf mulch from last fall, another in the tilled garden soil and one more in the same garden, without tilling, planted in a patch of white clover.  I added blood meal and top dressed with compost in each case and the clear leader at this point is the clover planting, it's much larger than the others and a darker green, with more female blooms than the others, so far.

Marco Banks wrote:I pee around the base of them.

Me too

Just because I'm curious: why is it okay to grow some veggies straight on top of un-finished compost? It was always my understanding that you never wanted veggies touching manure (pathogens), and squash seem like they'd be the most likely to come into contact with those pathogens. When I think of "un-finished" I mean in the sense that it hasn't had the chance to get hot as it does in the middle of the pile, which is why we turn or cover our manure compost piles. Other uses of raw manure I've heard of get around this through time (tilling into a field before veggies grow) or distance (burying it under dirt in a hotbed).

Kyle Neath wrote:Just because I'm curious: why is it okay to grow some veggies straight on top of un-finished compost? It was always my understanding that you never wanted veggies touching manure (pathogens), and squash seem like they'd be the most likely to come into contact with those pathogens.

I can't speak for others but I'm not worried about pathogens coming into contact with squash because we never eat it other than thoroughly cooked and the cooking should take care of the usual baddies. (We actually eat very little raw from our garden generally, but that's because my wife's from a country where eating raw veggies is a no-no.)

Kyle Neath wrote:Just because I'm curious: why is it okay to grow some veggies straight on top of un-finished compost? It was always my understanding that you never wanted veggies touching manure (pathogens), and squash seem like they'd be the most likely to come into contact with those pathogens. When I think of "un-finished" I mean in the sense that it hasn't had the chance to get hot as it does in the middle of the pile, which is why we turn or cover our manure compost piles. Other uses of raw manure I've heard of get around this through time (tilling into a field before veggies grow) or distance (burying it under dirt in a hotbed).

I think people worry way too much about this in general.  I turn my compost piles that I start straight from my chicken coop with a pitchfork.  I'm sure I get plenty of chicken shit on me, especially on my hands.  I'm also sure that there have been times that I went on to pick berries or asparagus or whatever and eaten it straight from the plant with those same hands before washing them.  In my opinion, more people get sick from worrying about things like that than do from ingesting some germs.

Many years ago, I used fresh fish heads under each plant, one or two each.  Worked like a charm, and the heads decomposed over the winter.