Egg-laying flock of ducks = Breeding Runner Ducks? Anconas? or Golden 300 Hybrid?

I want to start a commercial egg duck flock. I want to breed my own, so layer 300's are kind of out of the question.. I think...

I feel that runner ducks are probable the most efficient. If not because of their small carcase size, because they are the best foragers.

But the same problem lies with them that lies with any other egg duck, where can one acquire production quality stock? What are the hatcheries breeding for? One might suspect that the cheaper lines of ducks at the hatchery could mean the ducks lay more eggs, though it might also mean they hatch better.

I am a bit confused as to where the best place to order might be. Also never heard of any duck breeders who aren't hatcheries specializing in this sort of thing either. Anyone got any ideas?

On different forums I have seen a lot of respect for this outfit  (people going out of their way to say that's where they got their stock from)
http://holderreadfarm.com/selection_tips_page/selection_tips.htm   They keep records and have some suggestions re the different breeds..you might give them a call...

I am reading Storeys guide to raising ducks written by David Holderread.....He apparently is a duck genius and he and his wife breed ducks  and that link is their farm.


In the book he says the Campbells and Welsh Harlequins are best layers and great foragers...The Anaconas are good too and also excellent foragers but a little bigger bird........

We have Campbells and Runners.  They both forage a lot and I think the Campbells are a bit better layers.  We got ours from Mcmurray and Ideal (a mix from both).  Look for small holders in your area that are raising ducks.  You may be able to get breeding stock from them.

We have a small flock (~35 birds) of Ancona ducks, which are really great birds. They forage well, lay well, and the surplus drakes are a decent size for eating. The eggs are large and either white or light blue-green. The birds are medium-sized and colored in variable patterns, kind of like a pinto pony, in black, brown, tan, or "lavender," which makes individual birds highly recognizable. All Anconas (at least in the US) apparently go back to Holderread stock (two birds, actually, though their progeny is so generally healthy that you'd never guess they come from such a genetic bottleneck) and are a critically endangered breed. The Holderread birds have now all been passed on to Boondockers Farm ( http://boondockersnaturals.com/ ), so they are now the main source. We got our initial day-old ducklings from Carol Deppe (http://www.caroldeppe.com/), whose recent book The Resilient Gardener has some excellent permaculturish suggestions for raising ducks, and Anconas in particular. I'm not sure if she's still selling ducklings, but she's an excellent and congenial source for information.

My one quibble with Anconas is that they haven't tended to care for eggs and ducklings well, in my experience. We're not sure if this is a breed characteristic or whether it has to do with the fact that at least the past three generations have been incubator-hatched, and they're missing some critical early learning about what mothering entails. Our plan for the next hatching season is to sneak some Ancona eggs under our new Muscovies (reputedly great brooders), so we'll see if they pick up any mothering skills that way.

Different birds will perform differently in different locales, of course, but for western (maritime) Oregon, where I live, I can't recommend Anconas highly enough. They're awesome ducks, and deserve to have more people raising and breeding them.

I merged your stuff with the following thread. I hope that is okay by you.

I'm wanting to get ducks for egg-laying ability (productive) but I also want calm, friendly, dispositions. I know that Campbells are popular but they tend toward flighty. Ditto for Indian Runners. So, the two breeds I'm looking at are Anconas and Golden 300 Hybrid.

Benefits of the Anconas: helping to preserve a rare breed; able to incubate fertile eggs under one of my Muscovy hens when I need replacements. Disadvantage: the closest breeder I have to me only sells fertile eggs and I don't have an incubator nor are any of my Muscovies broody at the moment. I think I'd rather start off with ducklings rather than fertile eggs, anyway.

Benefits of the Golden 300 Hybrid: hybrid vigor, lots and lots of eggs. Disadvantage: replacement flock would require purchased stock.

Thoughts? Experiences?

Welsh Harlequins are reported to be calm and almost as good layers as the Campbell.

I love my Golden 300s. It is a rare day that an egg doesn't come out every one of their rear ends. I only have 3, but I'm going to get another 3 next spring. (Which I won't regret, if I can get a little pond filtering successfully.) They have fine temperaments, though they would be more cuddley if I'd smushed them up more when they were babies. They went through a period of acting like they were in some bizarre duck horror movie every time anyone showed up, but they got over that and waddle about me for food, and eat worms from my hand (awww, don't get cuter than that!). If I snatch one up and force some petting, they take it okay. But most importantly, boy are they productive! 365 days a year!

The white ones (aka White Layers/Golden 300's) were noisier. Especially Lucy Quacker, but her Caucasion girlfriends as well. Found a new home for them, cuz I'm in town, and kept the brown ones, which are pretty, woodsey looking creatures IMO.

So what are the permutations of possibilities of offspring from them? Wouldn't they be likely to produce good layers, even if less so?

Kelly Custer wrote:I love my Golden 300s. It is a rare day that an egg doesn't come out every one of their rear ends. I only have 3, but I'm going to get another 3 next spring. (Which I won't regret, if I can get a little pond filtering successfully.) They have fine temperaments, though they would be more cuddley if I'd smushed them up more when they were babies. They went through a period of acting like they were in some bizarre duck horror movie every time anyone showed up, but they got over that and waddle about me for food, and eat worms from my hand (awww, don't get cuter than that!). If I snatch one up and force some petting, they take it okay. But most importantly, boy are they productive! 365 days a year!

The white ones (aka White Layers/Golden 300's) were noisier. Especially Lucy Quacker, but her Caucasion girlfriends as well. Found a new home for them, cuz I'm in town, and kept the brown ones, which are pretty, woodsey looking creatures IMO.

So what are the permutations of possibilities of offspring from them? Wouldn't they be likely to produce good layers, even if less so?

Sounds perfect! So, the brown 300's are the ticket. What color eggs do they lay? I ask because another income stream I'm looking at is selling the shells to crafters/artists and different color eggs would be good for that market.

Are they good foragers?

I'm not sure what the result of their offspring would be...I was wondering that myself.

They lay white eggs. Larger than chicken eggs. They eat more, too. But they are good foragers. They slurp up snake-sized worms while the chickens watch, puzzled. And slugs, which horrify my chickens, and stick to their little duckie-mouths like a gluey wad of peanut butter! (A little animal sadism is okay, as long as they like it, too.) They eat weeds with the best of 'em, as well. I like Paul's simple ratio of grains, plants, bugs: 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. If I could forage/diversify enough in my back yard operation, that would reduce my feed costs nicely (huge worm bin, effort #2; zombie/superworms; effort #2, soldier flies, maybe I'll try again next year; massive production of weeds, easy).

I have a ready, instant market of $4 for chicken eggs, and $3 1/2 dozen for duck. I weighed them to compare, and convinced my buyer's market what a good deal they were getting per ounce, for an alkalizing, mineral rich egg, thereby creating a market for my buyer that she can't meet. My buyer found other sources but still wants more duck eggs, but I'm eating them myself when I'm in town.

I soak and ferment my feed, thereby increasing nutrition and digestability and reducing feed costs. Interesting data on soaking, as well as fermenting. The birds WAY prefer it.

My Easter Egger chickens are not as productive as my RI Reds, Austrolorps, Red Star/Golden Buffs.

Hoping someone will weigh in on what these girls would likely produce, though I won't be breeding for a long time. I tried a man-duck for a little, being as they don't duck-a-doodle-doo or anything, but he killed one of my chickens. Got my girl ducks riled up and going gangsta on the chickens, too. They are in a pen, now (large, comfortable one); might not happen in a free range scenario.

Kelly Custer wrote:They lay white eggs. Larger than chicken eggs. They eat more, too. But they are good foragers. They slurp up snake-sized worms while the chickens watch, puzzled. And slugs, which horrify my chickens, and stick to their little duckie-mouths like a gluey wad of peanut butter! (A little animal sadism is okay, as long as they like it, too.) They eat weeds with the best of 'em, as well. I like Paul's simple ratio of grains, plants, bugs: 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. If I could forage/diversify enough in my back yard operation, that would reduce my feed costs nicely (huge worm bin, effort #2; zombie/superworms; effort #2, soldier flies, maybe I'll try again next year; massive production of weeds, easy).

I have a ready, instant market of $4 for chicken eggs, and $3 1/2 dozen for duck. I weighed them to compare, and convinced my buyer's market what a good deal they were getting per ounce, for an alkalizing, mineral rich egg, thereby creating a market for my buyer that she can't meet. My buyer found other sources but still wants more duck eggs, but I'm eating them myself when I'm in town.

I soak and ferment my feed, thereby increasing nutrition and digestability and reducing feed costs. Interesting data on soaking, as well as fermenting. The birds WAY prefer it.

My Easter Egger chickens are not as productive as my RI Reds, Austrolorps, Red Star/Golden Buffs.

Hoping someone will weigh in on what these girls would likely produce, though I won't be breeding for a long time. I tried a man-duck for a little, being as they don't duck-a-doodle-doo or anything, but he killed one of my chickens. Got my girl ducks riled up and going gangsta on the chickens, too. They are in a pen, now (large, comfortable one); might not happen in a free range scenario.

oh, yeah, that would be the ticket to freezer camp here! No attacking anyone else! Everyone must get along with everyone else, my place is too small for aggressiveness.

I'm experimenting with fermenting now. I tried including the feed crumbles but neither the chickens or ducks cared for that much. Now, I trying just fermenting a mix of grains (oats, BOSS, and scratch grains) which seems to be going over much better. What do you ferment and what is your procedure?

I've been scouting the local markets -- the nearest Whole Foods store is an hour away and they don't sell duck eggs there. Their chicken eggs range from $4-8 a dozen. I've not checked with a little health food store 20 minutes away--they may prove to be a good place to sell (they sell local raw cow and goat milk). Ethnic markets are also about an hour away. The other income stream is selling the shells. I've seen online markets where duck eggs sell between $1.50 to $3 each. I'm thinking colored duck eggs might fetch some good prices to egg carvers so I'm leaning toward a mixed flock perhaps....only as long as I can get calm ducks that get along with the existing flock of muscovies an laying hens.

Other than the with the drake, the chickens and ducks do fine together. If I were starting over, I would get the chicks first, let them get a few weeks on the ducklings, who grow SO quickly, then put them together in the same brooding box, so they would be more bonded into one flock. But they eat together and cohabit fine, without an evil man around.

I soak and ferment organic layer crumbles. It swells up twice as big, and I intentionally add extra water for them to slurp up. Especially the ducks. They all love any fermented food like whey or sour milk. All I do to ferment it is let it soak in a gallon jar (less than 1/2 feed to water) until it bubbles and smells pleasantly sour. Depends on temperature how quickly. I just start a few jars and start using them, the older ones are more fermented, and I try to remember to get more started. I read a great blog about it, that gave me the light bulb and the courage. Funny I needed it, since I cook my own grains and make flatbread after soaking and fermenting.

Sometimes I soak various grains, peas, seeds from the feed store, soak them, blend them, and ferment them. But of course it's more trouble than just buying the crumbles.

I also sprout and grow forage in the kitchen. Oats don't sprout, and might make a muckier ferment. I want to get a hydroponic forage system going in my basement, but haven't yet. In winter, I grew a lot of grain grass and sunflower sprouts in the window, on baking trays under saran wrap (better props wouldn't be hard to come up with). Everybody loves green sunflower sprouts. The ducks eat those from my hand, if they haven't gotten them in a while. Turning grain to forage is another great way to reduce feed costs. I want an automated system.

It would be great if the health food store would take them from you. I'm so glad I can sell them all to one source. Makes it simple. If you look up why duck eggs are so good and make a little brochure or flyer for the store, might boost business. Worked for me.

I don't know if this post is too late, or if you've already got your ducks. But, one thing to consider between the two breeds is how much/if any area they will have to free-range. I can't find anything about the Golden 300 being good foragers, but anconas are well known for being able to get most of their food from nature. This should lower the feed-cost per egg. So, if you have a lot of area for them to free-range, anconas might be the better choice. But, if you will be paying for most/all of the feed, the Golden 300 would likle be a better choice. We have a lot of area for the ducks to forage, so we went with anconas. Ours haven't started laying yet, though!

Nicole Alderman wrote:I don't know if this post is too late, or if you've already got your ducks. But, one thing to consider between the two breeds is how much/if any area they will have to free-range. I can't find anything about the Golden 300 being good foragers, but anconas are well known for being able to get most of their food from nature. This should lower the feed-cost per egg. So, if you have a lot of area for them to free-range, anconas might be the better choice. But, if you will be paying for most/all of the feed, the Golden 300 would likle be a better choice. We have a lot of area for the ducks to forage, so we went with anconas. Ours haven't started laying yet, though!

No, not too late. I own a .6 acre homestead so they will free-range but not over acres of property.

How many ducks will you bw getting, and how many do you already have? My nine anconas (plus one large mixed breed), *seem* to do quite well with just 2,500 sqft (1/20th acre) of pasture/bramble. They have about 800sqft more that they haven't even ventured onto. But, we've only had them for less than a month and they were all ducklings (9 and 5 weeks) when we got them, so we're still figuring out how much feed they require--we're new to ducks!

As for finding ducks versus eggs, check craigslist! That's how we got our 10 ducks for $70. Here's some adds I just found for anconas that may be in your area: http://raleigh.craigslist.org/grd/4656466403.html
http://raleigh.craigslist.org/grd/4576593181.html
http://raleigh.craigslist.org/grd/4589576063.html

If you keep checking everyday, a great deal might just pop up!

I hope that helps!

Nicole Alderman wrote:How many ducks will you bw getting, and how many do you already have? My nine anconas (plus one large mixed breed), *seem* to do quite well with just 2,500 sqft (1/20th acre) of pasture/bramble. They have about 800sqft more that they haven't even ventured onto. But, we've only had them for less than a month and they were all ducklings (9 and 5 weeks) when we got them, so we're still figuring out how much feed they require--we're new to ducks!

As for finding ducks versus eggs, check craigslist! That's how we got our 10 ducks for $70. Here's some adds I just found for anconas that may be in your area: http://raleigh.craigslist.org/grd/4656466403.html
http://raleigh.craigslist.org/grd/4576593181.html
http://raleigh.craigslist.org/grd/4589576063.html

If you keep checking everyday, a great deal might just pop up!

I hope that helps!

After dispatching 3 extra drakes, my duck flock will consist of 1 Muscovy drake and 6 Muscovy hens and a clutch of 14 ducklings that will all either be sold or go to freezer.

I would *like* to have about 140 eggs per week which would require 20 hens if they each lay 1 egg a day. I'm not sure if my little property can handle that many ducks but that is what I'm hoping for -- 10 dozen eggs per week to sell to restaurants and individual customers. Or, if I don't sell that many, to sell the extra shells to artists.

Oh, and Raleigh is 4 hours away but for $10 per ancona duckling, I could make a day excursion out of it!

I don't know this, but I would think my Golden 300s are as good foragers as any other duck. They are motivated and industrious with bugs and greens; hard to picture how other ducks do it better? They eat things the chickens stare at, like pill bugs (and aforementioned slugs). (On the other hand, they appeared at a loss for what to do with the dead mouse before the chickens began a heated dead-mouse baton-race.) I would be curious how their foraging skills compare.

On a side note, I read that ducks require more B vitamins than chickens. I free choice brewer's yeast, and the ducks do eat it. They look very cute with little yeastie-mustaches (of sorts).

Bump!

What kind of ducks did you go with?

I'm seriously considering a small flock of Welsh Harlequin (based on research and the "duck god" Storey).  

Is anyone raising Welsh Harlequin ducks?

What do you wish you knew about ducks, BEFORE you got them?

What are the biggest negative factors in keeping ducks?

How do you keep the pond healthy; an ordinary filtration system?

I really like Welsh Harlequin's.
Excellent egg layers.  Best "bird" I have ever had for eggs.  When laying ... they lay an egg almost every day.  A double yolk is nearly an every day thing.
Very good foragers.  

I have raised well over 25 different varieties of chickens.  

I love to watch the ducks.  Very interesting behaviors.  They are very trainable.  I think they are a lot of fun.  Which is not something I expect from a "farm critter".

I prefer ducks now and I have Welsh Harlequin's and Khaki Campbel's.

Everyone is different regarding what they like to eat.  That being said, I can eat duck eggs nearly every day and be happy.  But I do not care for chicken eggs all that much.  However, Black Australorp chickens give a very good egg.  I can eat a lot of them.

I was letting the ducks go down to the creek.  But predators found them.  So that ended.  I found it interesting that the predators did not get a single Khaki.  The Khaki's are fast and much better at getting away from predators.  The Welsh's seem to freak out and not know how to get away!  

I live in the frozen tundra of WI.  So water is a challenge.
During the warm months ... They have a 50 gallon calf watering tank that I change the water in daily.
They also have 3 gallon horse feeding trays for water.  These are kept at a height just above the ducks "shoulder".  Which is the trick to keep them from getting in the water.  

Ducks are a great addition to the homestead.

I thought ducks would be harder to care for than chickens.
But after raising both.  I think ducks are easier.

Water has to be addressed differently.
They do need more water than chickens.
But "farm yard" ducks do not need to live in the water like wild ducks.
Farm yard ducks love the water.  But do not need it the way wild ducks do.  However, they may need it if you want fertile eggs.

My ducks like to be clean.
Even when it is over 20 degrees below zero ... they take a bath every morning and again later.
I have 7 ducks at this time.  They have three 3 gallon tubs for water.  1 at ground level to play in.  The other 2 at shoulder level.  The water gets refreshed as needed.
Just keep some water above their "shoulder" height so they cannot get in it.

The only "negative" thing, that is not simply a thing that comes with a particular critter, is cost.
Ducks are considerably more expensive than chickens.  
Last year day old chickens of a "commercial" variety were available locally from my Amish neighbors for less than a $1.00.  
Welsh's cost many times this.  But are well worth it if you can afford it.  Welsh's are one of the most expensive ducks to buy day old.
100 lbs of chicken layer mash is $18 at my local Amish feed store.
100 lbs of duck layer costs at least twice as much.

I love ducks.

However, "finances" have become much more challenging for all of us.  So, cost may be an issue for me when I purchase my replacement egg layers!  

If saving money is very important ... chickens are much less expensive than ducks ... we have to keep this in mind ... especially at this point in time.

John, how much space indoor/outdoor do you offer the WH? I am thinking of a small flock of 5-7 ducks

I have a 30x20 foot area, with an existing 6x8 elevated wooden shed in the center.   It consists of: 4x6 fixed windows on 2 sides, an existing "duck size" dog door with ramp, and one side drops down, hinged at the floor, creating a ramp (previous owners ride on mower garage) for easy clean outs, along with an ordinary door for daily maintenance.

The area is surrounded by a 6 ft high solid, metal (roofing panels) fence. On two sides there are similarly enclosed areas 5x larger they could have rotational access to.

Currently, this is a dirt, grass, weed substrate,  is this suitable?

How do you keep the ground sanitary? I assume over time 💩 would build-up, shovel, bury, nature takes care of it?

Assume inside would be deep litter with wood shavings.

Oh, one mystery tree, quite wide-spreading,  deciduous,  6ft high,  one 50ft, dual trunk, cedar, Douglas fir.

Lastly,  flies... are they an issue,  if so, how best to deal with them?

I have read,  and re-read Storey's Guide to Raising Ducks,  as well as a few others.   But now looking for the real-life,  nitty-gritty of duck keeping.

Thanks to all who share their duck husbandry knowledge!

We had khaki campbells for several years, free range during the day and locked up at night.  I was loosing ducks to predators until someone gave me a Rouen drake.  He immediately took charge.  It seemed to me that the ducks were happier overall with a male in charge, but more important, we quit loosing ducks to predators.  The drake was always watching while the others were eating.  I often saw him looking into the woods and then herd the rest into the duck house.  After a little while he'ld come out and check things out and he'd lead them back down to the water.  I watched him one time when a big hawk was around.  He herded the rest into a bit of water in the yard and then got between them and the hawk, spreading his wings and trying to look big and scary.  Eventually the hawk left.  

It seemed to me that when we had only females my golden comet hens seemed to lord it over the ducks in the shared birdhouse(I think chickens can peck harder than ducks).

The khaki campbells laid big, light brown eggs just about every day.  They were really good at finding their own food.  My wife's only complaint was that, since we feed them in the evening, they associated us with food (people = good) and tended to hang out near our back door, which led to a really shitty porch.

I would have one or two go broody on occasion, but they didn't seem like they were very good mothers.  Only a couple of ducklings hatched out and none survived (possibly because the grass was too tall near the duck house and mom didn't wait up for them enough).

A couple of gallons of water in a big dish pan morning and evening were plenty for them to 'bathe' in during the winter or when the 'pond' dried up.

We've moved, and I'll be getting more either this spring or next spring.  (Getting 3 acres into permaculture food forest and mixed perennial and annual garden, so it's a question of what can I get done this year and what has to wait until next year.  Trees and bushes come first).

Lorinne.
My ducks want to be outside all the time.  Even during blizzard conditions.  They are not inside long enough to make it an issue.  If not for predators ... they would be outside all the time.

That being said.  My rule of thumb for chickens, ducks and other such critters is a minimum of 10 square feet per bird inside.  Critter health and flies are much improved with a minimum of this much space.

My ducks have a very large area outside.

I use straw and wood shavings for bedding.

The outside area is large and there are no issues related to this.

Ducks do like trees and bushes to hide under or in.

I will be finding some old windows to build them an area to warm up in on sunny days during the winter.

What I use for flies:  

https://www.farmandfleet.com/products/719912-victor-fly-magnet-trap-with-bait.html