Thanks for staring this thread steve!Nows our chance to get back at Urban Scout!Like yourself,I find myself between the two.My problem with permaculture is that it seems to lack direction toward an end goal.Concepts and techniques can be used toward any end.Corporations stack functions!This allows people practicing permaculture to desighn systems relient on(and therefore supportive of) industrial civilization.I'd rather see decentralized models not relient on civilization(civ).We cant just turn around because the resourse base neccesary to live like the indians OR the settlers has been liquidated.I'm not speaking of "going back" in a technical sense,but of taking the abundant genetic and physical material that civilization has given us and of utilizing the remaining resourses and abilities of civilization to prepare for and create a world where cultural and genetic diversity and abundance are available,but where industrial civilization and its baggage is no longer neccesary.
I use
water for the first few years of a
trees life but when its established I cut the water.I dont want my system dependent on the water.I use a chainsaw to transform the unmanaged ecosytem into a productive model that will(if maintained)require no more fossil fuel devises.The time I save is used to learn how do do these things without the modern technology.The goal is ultimatly to not be dependent on civilization for my needs.Permaculture does not have that as a goal so desighns do not aim for self relience(their are some of course).Rewilding has that as a defined goal.Its a world view more than a technique.
Rewilding has its own downsides too.Some in that movement would critique manipulation of the enviroment itself and promote a return to pure hunter gatherer,which, in my opinion would not sustain a dense population.Many are also opposed to non
native plants.
I have been researching(and importing) non-native edible plants for 10yrs now.At one time I had 200+species of non native hebacaous perennials that are edible.These require no outside inputs so I'm using civilization to alter my enviroment so I will no longer need civilization.As for what % of my diet is wild.Probably more than most!Today I ate roadkill deer I got with rootcrops from my garden.OK
root crops are not wild but some of them are pretty feral and can reseed themselves.They grow good in my sandy soil(hey mabey septic drain fields and outdoor volleyball courts will have a use after the collapse afterall!)I have not bought a
fruit or veggie from the store for several years.Staples are a bit harder to aquire.Grains are pretty efficient in quantity of scale but for a home production model,
roots are going to be more efficient carb source until we can get chestnut production up to par.Squash is pretty easy too.Protiens and fats are even harder.Nuts seem obvious but they take time to establish.Wild game populations can be incresed by 7X with proper management.
Here in the PNW we dont really have that much soil appropriate for agriculture so a grain based culture is going to me minimal(and perhaps domestic animal production as well).We do have some good ag soils but percentage wise its far less then mountain terrain so if we want to maintain our population we
should probably learn appropraite managment for creating production models in the mountains.Most of this space is protected so management for food(burning etc..)is outlawed.Realty is what you can get away with so post collapse production models will include agriculture of course.Ultimatly,I'd like to see a move away from dependence on agriculture.
True wild production models in the past have been less productive but with new genetics the potential for greatly increased production exists.I dont think we need to come up with a solution to the global population.That is built unsustainably on oil(cheap
energy)and thats not our fault.If we could feed everyone,people would take it as an opportunity to create more.I do not support a die-off but believe it will happen.I also belive it doesnt need to happen because complex polycultures scientifically have been shown to be more productive then single story production(which is what is going on now).Streets,athletic fields....everywhere I look I see underutilzed space so we are nowhere near our production potential.Nut trees take awile to grow though so in the meantime...ouch!!!
PS the natives in my area lived semi permanently in long houses and were not nomads.They utilized perennial plants in a production model that supported a dense population and did not compromise the enviroment like european models.A couple of good
books are Keeping it Living by NAncy Turner and Against the Grain by ?A good comparison of the two models.