Low Income PDC

Hey guys,
With the recent loss of my job, being on mediCal and other low income assistances because of COVID, now is the time I've realized I really want to follow through with getting my Permaculture Cert.

But something that has always reaaally turned me off, even when I could maybe more so afford it, was how freakin expensive these courses are - with very limited work exchange and scholarships for low income in general.

If this was really revolutionary, wouldn't it be more accessible? Especially to the people most beaten down, most in need? These are my thoughts. It's a huge bummer. The courses are usually full of middle class white people. It just doesn't feel inclusive. I'm not trying to start an argument - I'm sure most of you have noticed this as well. If you can afford it, that's awesome! But it's not everyone's experience or ability.

Anyway, if anyone knows of any courses on the west coast, (I'm in California willing to travel and camp in OR or WA)((I'd be really bummin it but ya gotta do what gotta do)) that offers low income, I'm talking like 300$ or so of a cost (work trade super welcome) please let me know.

I've done a Google search and am having no luck. All the posts I find are super old or in the UK haha.

Thanks y'all

If you look around and see if the farms hosting the PDCs also host WWOOFers then maybe you could work something out directly with them.

Courses cost money. Same in any field, permaculture is no different. But in other fields they tend to turn more directly into income afterwards.

Chainsaw courses, for example, are hundreds of pounds to get certified to work professionally and are a requirement on most arboreal jobsites. Paying for such certification is an upfront cost, but rapidly pays off through increased earning opportunities.

Sadly the same is not generally true for permaculture certification - I think it is pretty rare that a PDC directly leads to increased income in the short, or even medium, term.

Kate Downham wrote:If you look around and see if the farms hosting the PDCs also host WWOOFers then maybe you could work something out directly with them.

This is a great idea, thank you!

Michael Cox wrote:Courses cost money. Same in any field, permaculture is no different. But in other fields they tend to turn more directly into income afterwards.

Chainsaw courses, for example, are hundreds of pounds to get certified to work professionally and are a requirement on most arboreal jobsites. Paying for such certification is an upfront cost, but rapidly pays off through increased earning opportunities.

Sadly the same is not generally true for permaculture certification - I think it is pretty rare that a PDC directly leads to increased income in the short, or even medium, term.

Yeah, me getting this cert would be for me and my dreams of eventually homesteading. It's something I really want to do but it generally feels like a rip off considering the points you have made. I think making this accessible for people all walks of life should be a priority, especially considering social Permaculture is a part of the whole.

Be proactive.  Write to the organizers of every course in your region and ask about scholarships or work trade opportunities.  Reach out further...if you find a good opportunity it might be worth a larger travel bill.  I found a half-price opportunity several states away for the task of getting up early several days during the course to help prep food.

Also, unless you really need the certificate (that is you plan to teach some day or use the word "permaculture" in a professional way, you can totally learn most of permaculture without the formal PDC.  There is a huge abundance of free information on line and a lot of books too.  Find a copy of the Designer's Manual and read it through.  Do this one thing, and you will have accomplished something that well-known PDC teachers, that I have taught courses with, have NEVER DONE!  Hard to believe, right?  If you have time and motivation instead of money, add some work experience to your self-study by wandering around to permaculture farms and volunteering.  The most prestigious ones will try to charge you for the privilege of doing their grunt work....move on to someone who will appreciate your presence more.  Over the years I've hosted quite a few of these, and several have called it a life changing experience.

Alder Burns wrote:Also, unless you really need the certificate (that is you plan to teach some day or use the word "permaculture" in a professional way, you can totally learn most of permaculture without the formal PDC.  There is a huge abundance of free information on line and a lot of books too.  Find a copy of the Designer's Manual and read it through.  Do this one thing, and you will have accomplished something that well-known PDC teachers, that I have taught courses with, have NEVER DONE!  Hard to believe, right?  If you have time and motivation instead of money, add some work experience to your self-study by wandering around to permaculture farms and volunteering.  The most prestigious ones will try to charge you for the privilege of doing their grunt work....move on to someone who will appreciate your presence more.  Over the years I've hosted quite a few of these, and several have called it a life changing experience.

I have a few books I've studied here and there, like Practical Permaculture and Gaia's Garden! I also study all the time online. I like your attitude!
I aslo have plans to wwoof in the new year once the corona virus has settled (will it ever???)
Over the years you've hosted quite a few of "these" as in PDCs?
Thanks so much for your input.

@ Kylie I've lived on several farms which hosted volunteers and visitors over the years, from periods of a few days to several months.  I also participated in the teaching team at four PDC's in Florida and Georgia, some of which offered a couple of places on scholarship or work trade; in addition to my own PDC which I attended at half price....

A couple suggestions:
-if you are looking for homesteading, check out the skip/pep program threads here at permits.com.  That will get you a long way to having homesteading skills and proof you did something if you want to use it for a job

-find a copy of the big black book by Bill Mollison, it spells everything out and pdcs are based on it.  Also love Gaia’s garden

-get Paul’s book, lots of permaculture and homesteading in there

Btw, if you want Paul’s book I will send you a copy, just cover shipping

Paul talked about this in another thread 9 years ago.  This question continues to pop up.  I agree very much with his point of view with regards to PDC prices.  I would strongly urge people to read the entire thread found here PDC price, but here is a small excerpt from it where Paul gives his thoughts:

"There's a 200 acre farm for $450,000.  Too expensive for me.  Should I keep shopping or start a campaign "Hey, people need farms, and that price is just too high.  How do you expect people to be able to buy farms at that high of a price?  Are you some sort of Elitist? I am sure to someone with the extra cash it is well worth it, but come on who needs to make that much money in such a short amount of time for a farm they don't even want to farm anymore?"

Or I'm at the organic food store and I want a sandwich, but the price is $5.50:  "Hey, people need food, and that price is just too high.  How do you expect people to be able to buy food at that high of a price?  Are you some sort of Elitist? I am sure to someone with the extra cash it is well worth it, but come on who needs to make that much money in such a short amount of time for a sandwich they aren't even going to eat?"

I see a lot of excellent PDC instructors working very hard to do good things, and they give away a mountain of freebies, and after hundreds of hours of hard work, budgeting and risk to get the event to happen ...  I very much want to help them.  The message is a good message.  And I think they are working very hard for a price that is far too low.  I think they should charge more and then they would be able to spend more time teaching more PDCs rather than having to cobble together other jobs to make ends meet."

kylie cox wrote:
I think making this accessible for people all walks of life should be a priority, especially considering social Permaculture is a part of the whole.

I agree with this in principle, but what does that mean in practice? Does it mean highly skilled professionals giving up their time for free to teach? How sustainable is this, given that they have to support themselves as well? PDC are expensive, but done properly they should be because they are long and demanding of the instructor. I saw variously 90 hours teaching 72 hours teaching etc.. when I googled it quickly just now. So basically 2 weeks of full time live instruction, plus more prep time behind the scenes for the instructors.

That level of instruction is expensive in any field, because you are paying for both the time of the instructors and all the additional support work. And for the people putting these courses on, the income is sometimes their prime livelihood. Not an nice bit of bonus income, but literally how they feed their families and pay the mortgage. So if the customer is not paying for it, who should be paying?

This may or may not be a true story, but I think it is relevant.  Most people have probably heard it, or something similar:

It always reminds me of the story about the woman who approached Picasso in a restaurant, asked him to scribble something on a napkin, and said she would be happy to pay whatever he felt it was worth. Picasso complied and then said, “That will be $10,000.”

“But you did that in thirty seconds,” the astonished woman replied.

“No,” Picasso said. “It has taken me forty years to do that.”

He also apparently used to pay by cheque, knowing that they would never cash it - his autograph was worth more than the amount on the cheque.

As has been suggested above already, there are many ways to get the knowledge without doing a formal PDC. Reading Mollison's Permaculture Designers Manual cover to cover twice, while taking detailed notes, will be a good start - and likely give you a broader base to build on than most people participating here have. Until I read it I hadn't really got my head around the complexity and interconnectedness of systems that are core to permaculture. I was in the "swales are cool" "maybe I should build a hugelmound" camp - attracted to the big shiny ideas and not really seeing them as part of a cohesive whole. And in fact knowing which ideas were NOT appropriate for me. Swales are a waste of time here - we are on incredibly porous free draining chalk. We simply don't get standing surface water. At all. There is no run off to catch, slow and sink.

The book is expensive, sure, but reading it cover to cover properly will take you far more than the 90 hours of a PDC and be far more in depth as well.