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Convert wood-burning metal stove to masonry heater

 
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Hello All,
I got hold of a spare, metal casing, wood burning stove heater.
Although I got two, special case, additional challenges with it, I wanted to browse your ideas and oppinions about the general subject of installing the stove "inside" a masonry heater.
My idea is to build a cob and red-bricks based channel, directly above the stove, fed by the stove flue from its bottom and channel it around, couple of turns, maybe a small side cob-mass, then back to a top flue exit.
I can not find any information of such project, which made me suspect that it might be complete unsustained project.
Could somebody, of you knowlagable guys, please give me some clue on the feasibility of such monster?
Thank you very much.
 
 
Rocket Scientist
Posts: 4305
Location: latitude 47 N.W. montana zone 6A
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Hi Arnon;
After reading your idea here is what I think will happen .
As this is a conventional wood burner. Your "suspended" brick channel, may become a creosote storage area. Waiting for the day when it can burst into flames...
A conventional stove needs a direct flow up and out. The chimney will need yearly sweeping for buildup.

Now depending on how large your metal stove is. Some folks have successfully built a "BatchBox  RMH" inside a metal stove after lining it with firebrick or ceramic fiber board.
A RMH will burn so hot and clean that creosote is never given a chance to form.

Using your metal stove conventionally and building walls of brick and cob to surround , "but not touch" your stove is a great way to save heat in your room.  
 
pollinator
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Location: Central Virginia USA
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Obviously, a metal stove is going to conduct lots of heat directly away from the combustion area , leading to the creosote formation from incomplete combustion.  I agree that insulating inside the stove could solve that basic problem, with a few details taken care of.

I would size the batch box inside the stove to a diameter about 2 inches smaller than the metal stove exhaust to allow for an inch of ceramic fiber insulation around the bb exhaust, and that insulation should continue up to the minimum height according to the recommended riser length  for that size rocket stove, and from there it should go directly to your bell or bench, whatever you plan to use to extract and store the heat. This allows the same exhaust pipe with the 1"  cf to be used as a liner and expect temps to reach 1000F

note here that using a DSR might be sized to fit inside a larger metal stove and would eliminate everything external to the stove but the bell or bench. But be careful of the exhaust since that again would be much hotter than  a normal woodstove-

The batchbox itself would be made of firebricks held in place by a surrounding matrix of clay mixed with perlite. (at least that is what I pictured- yes I  have thought about this also.) The opening to the bb would be close enough to the metal door to close fairly tight with a layer of cf  or perhaps even perlite clay fastened to the door.

Figuring out where to put the port and p channel/air supply would be a separate consideration depending on the design of the stove.

I offer these ideas only as beginning thoughts, since I have not yet implemented them, and am currently using a DSR, but the idea of containing the whole thing inside an existing wood stove has been quite appealing to me since it solves the door problem which is perhaps the trickiest part (for me) of any batch box build.
 
arnon raab
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Thank you very much Thomas and Bob for your comments. I think you are absolutely right regarding the creosote creation problem (the home insurers, here in France, force owners to hold a valid yearly chimney cleaning certificate). What I think slightly confuses me are those simple drawings of masonry heaters the internet is full of (example enclosed here) which might be misleading(?).
I think that on the rocket stove and a PVDB batch box stove there is the Heat Raiser, which produces:
- High temperature - solving the creosote creation problem
- Air flow pressure - allowing ease of long channels hot air travel

This is why I think these drawings are misleading. They seem to bypass this crucial element. If this is the case, in order to achieve my project I would need to
- Create a raiser above the current metal box
- Probably alter some internals, like removing the “Throat Plate”, to allow the fire to easily reach the raiser input.
- As you mentioned, make sure the raiser can handle very high temperature, material and lining wise.

What I think I am missing is that bit of information to gap the knowledge between the enclosed drawing solution and the raiser implementation.
Thank you.
Masonry.png
"typical masonry heater"
"typical masonry heater"
 
gardener
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Location: Southern alps, on the French side of the french /italian border 5000ft elevation
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Well, russian types of masonry heaters build less creosote, because they're run full blast, like a rocket.  But still, they're generating some, because their fire is not insulated, and these don't have a heat riser.

Where are you in France?

Have you seen uzume.fr ?

I don't link, since there is a commercial part.
 
arnon raab
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Thank you Antone. I am fully aware of Yasin's incredible project at Usume. I'm in Pas De Calais, the complete other end of France.
What does it mean "full blast" in terms of design? direct free air flow input?
Thank you
 
Satamax Antone
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arnon raab wrote:
Thank you Antone. I am fully aware of Yasin's incredible project at Usume. I'm in Pas De Calais, the complete other end of France.
What does it mean "full blast" in terms of design? direct free air flow input?
Thank you



Full blast = à fond!

By the way, i'm "Max"
 
arnon raab
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Thank you (and apologies) Max.
Are the two side openings in the drawing (bottom, sides), which allow full air intake, thus create this "blast"? If so, does it match the "blast" that a raiser create?
Thank you.
Arnon
 
Satamax Antone
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To me, the heat riser "push" is a bit of a legend. As, when you put a barrel on top of a heat riser, you need a chimney to induce draft.

On your russian stove drawing, , there is host gases recycling to preheat the air, that's not too bad a design.

What could be done, on the first horizontal channel, is to insulate to have the same effect as a DSR2, Well, it would take some adaptation.

https://donkey32.proboards.com/thread/3503/double-shoebox-rocket-mark-ii
 
pollinator
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You can see what we did on our website: http://geopathfinder.com/Masonry-Stove.html
 
pollinator
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Location: Bendigo , Australia
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Larisa, that stove of yours is Hot!
I like it and may try one in Australia.
Thanks
 
bob day
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I can assure you, the push of the original  J tube rocketl exhaust is alive and well. I used it for a couple years with no stack,  but you're right, it is not always a given.

When I went to a batch box, I started having issues, and when I eliminated the riser in the double shoebox the push pretty much disappeared all together.

Don't forget, the riser not only has hot gases rising, but the outside of the riser has cooler gases falling. In my case I had a water coil around the barrel, so the push was even more pronounced. Insulation on the barrel would certainly make the push less reliable, especially once the stove got warm
 
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