Fruit tree food forest in an urban area

I am on a suburban site, that primarily has 9m (x3 for ft) and 12m as the front yard, the sunny side (southern hemispheres North).

I am in the final planning of redesigning it e.g. locking in stages of what goes where,  in terms of significant plants. Fruit trees being the most significant.
I am wondering what determines growth or food productivity really speaking.
If I put more trees through fully in my yard, and my major garden bed is going to be a huglekulture mound,  with other smaller transitional rained bed or pots here and there where they fit.

I have seen all manner of other peoples videos where they have small well used spaces in shade and semishade, when you would not think things would grow normally.
They dont have the space but they use what they have.

What foods grow in urban forests e.g. can I still grow veggies etc if the fruit trees are sprawled around the front yard in such a way that there is NO TRUE direct sunlight in heat of the summer?

What are the key considerations?
DO I protect the space where I am growing in food beds so the shade does not get them or dont worry because the plants will reach for the sun anyway.

Tips, tricks, challenges, or nudges in the right direction?

Joyce Harris wrote:
I am on a suburban site, that primarily has 9m (x3 for ft) and 12m as the front yard, the sunny side (southern hemispheres North).

I am in the final planning of redesigning it e.g. locking in stages of what goes where,  in terms of significant plants. Fruit trees being the most significant.
I am wondering what determines growth or food productivity really speaking.
If I put more trees through fully in my yard, and my major garden bed is going to be a huglekulture mound,  with other smaller transitional rained bed or pots here and there where they fit.

I have seen all manner of other peoples videos where they have small well used spaces in shade and semishade, when you would not think things would grow normally.
They dont have the space but they use what they have.

What foods grow in urban forests e.g. can I still grow veggies etc if the fruit trees are sprawled around the front yard in such a way that there is NO TRUE direct sunlight in heat of the summer?

What are the key considerations?
DO I protect the space where I am growing in food beds so the shade does not get them or dont worry because the plants will reach for the sun anyway.

Tips, tricks, challenges, or nudges in the right direction?

For me the trick to forest gardening is to have a balance between the layers, which varies between climates. Here in Scotland it is best to plant a very open 'forest', with plenty of light for the shrub and ground layers. Closer to the equator you can plant the trees closer together, but still be careful not to overdo it. The most common mistake is to only think of the tree layer and put in the ground layer as an afterthought or fill it with unproductive 'ground cover' plants. Don't have a food forest made mostly of fruit trees unless you want a diet made mostly of fruit!  If you get the spacing right and choose your species right the ground layer can be entirely made up of productive plants. I aim for a range of shade conditions from deep shade to full sun for the greatest diversity of plants.

As someone living in a Wet Coast Doug Fir and Cedar forest who struggles to get enough sun to grow some tomatoes for my family who loves them, I agree. Try thinking more in terms of the savanna idea of plants between spread out trees?  As much as I prefer ecologically to plant full size fruit trees, I really wanted an Asian pear tree, but the only place to plant it was near a garden I didn't want to shade, so I bought an espalier one - it produces enough fruit for a treat but it doesn't cast too much shade.

An area I'm working on now I'm hoping will eventually be divided into some chicken paddocks so food will be close to them and I'm realizing how few trees I'll be able to fit! They will need a strong berry shrub level as well as areas I can leave open and mulched to provide wood-bugs and worms they can dig for without damaging plant roots.

Leafy greens do better in the shade vs full sun, plant your fruit trees. You have to be a bit mindful of the tree roots/watering.
Plant 6-10ft dwarf trees, every 10ft in a grid. If you have say a chainlink fence cover it with vines like grape/kiwi/passionfruit.

JOYCE's post).......What foods grow in urban forests e.g. can I still grow veggies etc if the fruit trees are sprawled around the front yard in such a way that there is NO TRUE direct sunlight in heat of the summer?
What are the key considerations?


ALAN's post)  
For me the trick to forest gardening is to have a balance between the layers, which varies between climates. Here in Scotland it is best to plant a very open 'forest', with plenty of light for the shrub and ground layers. Closer to the equator you can plant the trees closer together, but still be careful not to overdo it. The most common mistake is to only think of the tree layer and put in the ground layer as an afterthought or fill it with unproductive 'ground cover' plants. Don't have a food forest made mostly of fruit trees unless you want a diet made mostly of fruit!  If you get the spacing right and choose your species right the ground layer can be entirely made up of productive plants. I aim for a range of shade conditions from deep shade to full sun for the greatest diversity of plants.

Alan, thanks for this overview and timely input. Inspiring to be encouraged to embrace more ways to see how diverse our food SPACES +/- forest perspectives.
layers, levels, height, shapes, shade, sun drenched gaps for an hour or more, moist, or not, under or over, or up or along, all belong somewhere in the food forest.
We just need to identify what is likely to work best in our miniature, or vast wild food forest.

Enjoy your week among the Permiie-ites

I'm in the same boat! Are there any tips or tricks people can recommend for how to approach the garden planning?

As regards `tips and tricks` there is never one-size-fits-all at Permies! You need to look at your site, the constraints you have (neighbours, soil, weather conditions, etc.) what you want to achieve and what skills and resouerces you have.
Observing what you have, and what is likely to do well in your area is a good start. Improving your  soil will be worth it and payback. I wish I`d done more of this myself. Start small, but have an overall vision.