Win a copy of Coppice Agroforestry this week in the Woodland forum!
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Anne Miller
  • Pearl Sutton
  • r ranson
  • paul wheaton
stewards:
  • Leigh Tate
  • jordan barton
  • Greg Martin
master gardeners:
  • Carla Burke
  • John F Dean
  • Jay Angler
  • Nancy Reading
gardeners:
  • Beau Davidson
  • thomas rubino
  • L. Johnson

Good fast yielding perennial fruits/vegetables?

 
Posts: 22
Location: Southern Ontario Zone 6
3
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
So I'm in a suburban home, with limited full sun spots since we have a lot of big trees. I'm still new to all this - this year was my first growing a bigger vegetable garden (previous years was just cherry tomatoes and herbs).

Most of my full sun spots I intend to dedicate to peppers, eggplants, tomatoes, cucurbits and okra. I will also make room for some yacon, oca and mashua. Anything that requires full sun better be worth it (ex more tasty than a potato).

I have a decent amount of space in part shade and a lot of what's basically full shade, under various trees (Silver Maple, Kentucky Coffee Tree, Willow, Tree of Heaven, Spruce, Hemlock, White Pine) and shrubs (Saskatoon Berry, Dogwood, Lilac, Magnolia)

Location is Great Lakes Zone 6, sandy soil with near neutral pH, fairly humid (generally don't need to water plants once established). Our family likely won't stay here more than a few years, therefore I'm looking for stuff that can yield within a couple years, or that can transplant easily. Also have a creek bank that has a mix of full sun, part shade and shade, but is prone to flooding, so I'd only want to grow things there that won't require much digging to harvest, since that would worsen erosion, and that can withstand flooding (ie doesn't have a stem that can easily snap).

Some plants I'll try next year

Sunchokes: should I buy these or can I just transplant wild ones? They grow all over the local woods so I was thinking of picking some out later this fall
Alpine Strawberries: heard they were really tasty and can do well in shade?
Hablitzia Taminoides: also good for shade? And produces edible shoots and greens early in the season.
Walking Onion: can do well in part shade + multiplies fast?
Welsh Onion: similar appeal to walking onion
Rhubarb: also does well enough in part-shade? + yields in 2nd year
Raspberries: saw one volunteer branch pop up under my maple this year, so hopefully it'll grow into a bigger plant next year
Skirret: willing to make room for this in more sunny areas since it's apparently very tasty and high yielding?
Chicago Fig: also willing to make room for it in the sunny spots because I really like figs

Maybe
Chinese Artichoke/crosnes: ok in part-shade?
Dioscorea batatas (Chinese yam/Dr Yao Cinnamon Vine): apparently quite tasty? does well in part shade?
Groundnut/Apios Americana: now sure if worth it because it requires a fair bit of sun and takes a few years for a respectable yield? (at least it can transplant I guess) Does it taste good?
Currants: good for shade but how do they transplant since they take a few years to yield?

What do you guys think?
 
pollinator
Posts: 3495
Location: Massachusetts, Zone:6/7 AHS:4 GDD:3000 Rainfall:48in even Soil:SandyLoam pH6 Flat
464
2
forest garden solar
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Wineberry/Blackberry/Raspberry/etc and strawberry
Blueberry (low, mib and high bush)
Gooseberry/Currant/Jostaberry
Sand cherry/beach plum/ and other native 5ft stone fruit
Grapes
Maypop
Jujube
Dwarf/Weeping Mulberry (6ft)
Seaberry, Goumi

Elderberry
Aronia

I like the winter savory/thyme/mint family, and also the garlic/onion family, Lovage and others in the carrot family is cool too.

You can grow mushroom esp in the deep shade or really anywhere. They are nutritious and has the extra side benefit of having alot of health/medicinal compounds.
 
Nicolas Derome
Posts: 22
Location: Southern Ontario Zone 6
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

S Bengi wrote:Wineberry/Blackberry/Raspberry/etc and strawberry
Blueberry (low, mib and high bush)
Gooseberry/Currant/Jostaberry
Sand cherry/beach plum/ and other native 5ft stone fruit
Grapes
Maypop
Jujube
Dwarf/Weeping Mulberry (6ft)
Seaberry, Goumi

Elderberry
Aronia

I like the winter savory/thyme/mint family, and also the garlic/onion family, Lovage and others in the carrot family is cool too.

You can grow mushroom esp in the deep shade or really anywhere. They are nutritious and has the extra side benefit of having alot of health/medicinal compounds.


Some of those feel like they might take a bit long to bear fruit (for my situation), which of them transplant ok? And I think blueberries wouldn't do well in neutral soils?

I haven't really thought of growing mushrooms before but I suppose it's worth a shot. I've been cutting and pruning trees and bushes, so I have quite a lot of logs, branches and twigs. I could probably get my hands on some straw, pine needles and leaves for finer material too. I'd probably grow them in the moist sandy soil under some dogwoods (which are themselves understory below some maple/willow/tree of heaven). So pretty heavy shade, and my climate has a fairly ordinary temperate climate (avg high of 80F/low of 68F in mid-summer, down to average high of 32f/low of 20F in mid-winter, 2-3 inches of precipitation per month year-round).

I will be trying a lot of the carrot family vegetables (dill, cilantro, bulbous chervil, skirret, carrot, parsley, root parsley, parsnip) although it seems more of those require protection from voles/rabbits. This year I didn't have any and the tops kept getting chewed down, so this year I'll try surrounding the beds in hardware cloth. I'll also be growing garlic, welsh onion, walking onion, maybe bunching onion and leeks, maybe crosnes (tuberous mint), and have already been growing mint family herbs (spearmint, basil, oregano, sage, rosemary, lavender, thyme).
 
Posts: 44
Location: Western Colorado, Zone 5b-ish
10
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I have relatively little experience, but I have grown perennial chard, which was nice. I've overwintered regular chard too, and gotten a few months of harvest in the spring before bolting.
 
S Bengi
pollinator
Posts: 3495
Location: Massachusetts, Zone:6/7 AHS:4 GDD:3000 Rainfall:48in even Soil:SandyLoam pH6 Flat
464
2
forest garden solar
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I planted all of those shrubs/vine that I listed and they gave me fruit either the very 1st season or the year after I planted them. I got most of them from onegreenworld nursery and a few from strakbros.

It's not that blueberry can't bear in pH 7 soil, it more like it is the "only" plant that will bear in pH 4 soil. Even in pH neutral soil, blueberry and it's associated microbes will modify the pH of it's root zone and give you a good harvest, the trick is to increase the soil carbon (BioChar). But yes blueberry does do better in low pH soil all other things being equal.
 
Nicolas Derome
Posts: 22
Location: Southern Ontario Zone 6
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Andy Jensen wrote:I have relatively little experience, but I have grown perennial chard, which was nice. I've overwintered regular chard too, and gotten a few months of harvest in the spring before bolting.


I didn't know regular chard could be overwintered in 5b. I do have about a dozen white stemmed chard and another dozen perpetual spinach that I've been growing since May. Do you use row covers or did you have an unusually mild winter when they overwintered? Or can they withstand -10F to 0F temps unprotected? Or are they like parsley, tops die back but then it grows back from roots?
 
Andy Jensen
Posts: 44
Location: Western Colorado, Zone 5b-ish
10
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Nicolas Derome wrote:

Andy Jensen wrote:I have relatively little experience, but I have grown perennial chard, which was nice. I've overwintered regular chard too, and gotten a few months of harvest in the spring before bolting.


I didn't know regular chard could be overwintered in 5b. I do have about a dozen white stemmed chard and another dozen perpetual spinach that I've been growing since May. Do you use row covers or did you have an unusually mild winter when they overwintered? Or can they withstand -10F to 0F temps unprotected? Or are they like parsley, tops die back but then it grows back from roots?



I actually overwintered chard in a harsher place than where I am now. I cut back the big leaves and covered the plants with fallen tree leaves. I forget what the weather was like that winter -- it might have been a snowy one, which adds to the insulation.
 
Nicolas Derome
Posts: 22
Location: Southern Ontario Zone 6
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Andy Jensen wrote:

Nicolas Derome wrote:

Andy Jensen wrote:I have relatively little experience, but I have grown perennial chard, which was nice. I've overwintered regular chard too, and gotten a few months of harvest in the spring before bolting.


I didn't know regular chard could be overwintered in 5b. I do have about a dozen white stemmed chard and another dozen perpetual spinach that I've been growing since May. Do you use row covers or did you have an unusually mild winter when they overwintered? Or can they withstand -10F to 0F temps unprotected? Or are they like parsley, tops die back but then it grows back from roots?



I actually overwintered chard in a harsher place than where I am now. I cut back the big leaves and covered the plants with fallen tree leaves. I forget what the weather was like that winter -- it might have been a snowy one, which adds to the insulation.


Interesting, I might give that a try then. Our average annual low is 0F (+/- 10F) so I guess that's a fair bit milder than where you overwintered them, but our snow is rather inconsistent, so it is possible to get mild weather that melts whatever snow there was followed by a deep freeze, without any snow to insulate, so I'll have to throw some leaves on top. Maybe pile snow on top so it takes longer to melt there. Have you overwintered perpetual spinach chard as well? It took so long for my chard to get growing this year, a head start next year would be nice (although I think my soil was also poor this spring, I've been amending with compost).
 
pollinator
Posts: 2339
Location: Denmark 57N
589
fungi foraging trees cooking food preservation
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Chard dies over winter here in 7b we don't get snow so I suspect that is a very important part of their survival.
 
S Bengi
pollinator
Posts: 3495
Location: Massachusetts, Zone:6/7 AHS:4 GDD:3000 Rainfall:48in even Soil:SandyLoam pH6 Flat
464
2
forest garden solar
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I have had rainbow swiss chard over winter for me here. Winter low of 0F. And quite a few plants in the kale family
 
Posts: 49
13
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
A lot of stone fruit varieties ie plums/apricots/peaches can start cropping a lot in just a couple or few years, especially if they are older trees from a nursery where they will typically start producing already the same year or next year depending on when you plant them. If they aren't too old they can be pulled out and moved somewhere else ie moving to a new house. You can also take cuttings from them with you if you like them as they are quite easy to root or grew them from seed and want to clone your own unique seedling variety, stone fruits also have a tendency to shoot suckers that are easy to take with you transplant if you grew the tree from seed/cuttings, they often grow true from seed too.

Other than that I would say Rubus species ie raspberries, blackberries, black raspberries, dewberries etc are very good because they are very easy to transplant, grow fast and always produce fruit on new canes on the second year. Rubus species are probably the best perennial fruits/berries when it comes to giving a big crop fast and being easily transplantable and also constantly grow out new suckers and/or are very easy to root and their fruits are delicious and among the best tasting fruits/berries on planet earth. They barely need any care either.
 
Nicolas Derome
Posts: 22
Location: Southern Ontario Zone 6
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

S Bengi wrote:I planted all of those shrubs/vine that I listed and they gave me fruit either the very 1st season or the year after I planted them. I got most of them from onegreenworld nursery and a few from strakbros.

It's not that blueberry can't bear in pH 7 soil, it more like it is the "only" plant that will bear in pH 4 soil. Even in pH neutral soil, blueberry and it's associated microbes will modify the pH of it's root zone and give you a good harvest, the trick is to increase the soil carbon (BioChar). But yes blueberry does do better in low pH soil all other things being equal.


I thought BioChar increased pH? (or was that ashes?)

Would blueberries be able to modify the root zone pH even in soils accessed by larger trees? I'm pretty sure every part of our garden has roots from one tree or another tapping into it.
 
Nicolas Derome
Posts: 22
Location: Southern Ontario Zone 6
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Anton Jacobski Hedman wrote:A lot of stone fruit varieties ie plums/apricots/peaches can start cropping a lot in just a couple or few years, especially if they are older trees from a nursery where they will typically start producing already the same year or next year depending on when you plant them. If they aren't too old they can be pulled out and moved somewhere else ie moving to a new house. You can also take cuttings from them with you if you like them as they are quite easy to root or grew them from seed and want to clone your own unique seedling variety, stone fruits also have a tendency to shoot suckers that are easy to take with you transplant if you grew the tree from seed/cuttings, they often grow true from seed too.

Other than that I would say Rubus species ie raspberries, blackberries, black raspberries, dewberries etc are very good because they are very easy to transplant, grow fast and always produce fruit on new canes on the second year. Rubus species are probably the best perennial fruits/berries when it comes to giving a big crop fast and being easily transplantable and also constantly grow out new suckers and/or are very easy to root and their fruits are delicious and among the best tasting fruits/berries on planet earth. They barely need any care either.


Alright, I'll consider peaches, we do have some pretty good nurseries around here.
 
pollinator
Posts: 941
Location: Chicago
295
dog forest garden fish foraging urban cooking food preservation bike
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
For vegetables, edible ferns like the very common ostrich ferns can be harvested the year after you plant them.  Just dont take *all* the fiddleheads. Dandelion greens likewise.  Prickly lettuce, which I think is more a biennial, is an early spring edible.
 
Posts: 33
4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Nicolas Derome wrote:
Some of those feel like they might take a bit long to bear fruit (for my situation), which of them transplant ok? And I think blueberries wouldn't do well in neutral soils?

I haven't really thought of growing mushrooms before but I suppose it's worth a shot. I've been cutting and pruning trees and bushes, so I have quite a lot of logs, branches and twigs. I could probably get my hands on some straw, pine needles and leaves for finer material too. I'd probably grow them in the moist sandy soil under some dogwoods (which are themselves understory below some maple/willow/tree of heaven). So pretty heavy shade, and my climate has a fairly ordinary temperate climate (avg high of 80F/low of 68F in mid-summer, down to average high of 32f/low of 20F in mid-winter, 2-3 inches of precipitation per month year-round).

I will be trying a lot of the carrot family vegetables (dill, cilantro, bulbous chervil, skirret, carrot, parsley, root parsley, parsnip) although it seems more of those require protection from voles/rabbits. This year I didn't have any and the tops kept getting chewed down, so this year I'll try surrounding the beds in hardware cloth. I'll also be growing garlic, welsh onion, walking onion, maybe bunching onion and leeks, maybe crosnes (tuberous mint), and have already been growing mint family herbs (spearmint, basil, oregano, sage, rosemary, lavender, thyme).



You can also grow some mushrooms in straw/woodchip mulch and they are super easy to start. I just put in winecaps and blue oyster in straw mulch, and am putting shiitake and lion's mane in logs.
 
master steward
Posts: 10396
Location: USDA Zone 8a
3119
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
While this doesn't answer your question, you might get good fast yield from plants that you already have growing.  Do you know the names of all your trees and flowers?

Tree leaves are edible and so are some flowers.

Do you have daylilies, some are edible.

Even the leaves and flowers of vegetables that you will be planting are edible.

Somewhere on the forum someone posted picture of fried maple leaves and I have seen lots of flower in salads and frie.
 
Nicolas Derome
Posts: 22
Location: Southern Ontario Zone 6
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Mk Neal wrote:For vegetables, edible ferns like the very common ostrich ferns can be harvested the year after you plant them.  Just dont take *all* the fiddleheads. Dandelion greens likewise.  Prickly lettuce, which I think is more a biennial, is an early spring edible.


I actually have some ferns, not sure if they're ostrich ferns or something else, but they've always been doing much worse than my neighbours. Mine are growing under my silver maple/spruce tree.
 
Nicolas Derome
Posts: 22
Location: Southern Ontario Zone 6
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Anne Miller wrote:While this doesn't answer your question, you might get good fast yield from plants that you already have growing.  Do you know the names of all your trees and flowers?

Tree leaves are edible and so are some flowers.

Do you have daylilies, some are edible.

Even the leaves and flowers of vegetables that you will be planting are edible.

Somewhere on the forum someone posted picture of fried maple leaves and I have seen lots of flower in salads and frie.



These are the ones I can think of (and now what they're called).

Trees
-Japanese Maple
-Silver Maple
-Blue Spruce
-some other spruce, it's more green in colour with smaller cones
-Kentucky Coffee Tree
-Hemlocks
-White Pine
-some sort of juniper tree that volunteered (about 20ft tall)
-cedar
-magnolia

Shrubs/small trees
-Saskatoon Berry (we do try to eat them although it always seems to fruit when we go on vacation and we come back to the trees having been picked clean)
-various juniper type shrubs (more low lying than the tree)
-honeysuckle
-dogwood
-forsythia
-a couple varieties of euonymus
-hydrangea (tree, vine, shrub and herbaceous)
-butterfly bush
-azalea
-trumpet vine
-roses
-holy
-yew
-burning bush

Invasives
-english ivy
-goutweed
-lily of the valley
-periwinkle

Other self-spreading plants including weeds (not planted intentionally)
-garlic mustard (I know it's edible, but I don't like it as much as more "cultivated" greens)
-dandelions
-wild violets
-virginia creeper
-creeping charlie
-greater celandine
-tree of heaven seedlings
-wild plantain
-wild purslane (I know it's edible, it's ok)
-yellow corydalis
-wild dock
-queen anne's lace
-goldenrod
-wild aster
-black medic
-stinging nettle
-snow in summer

Established & abundant herbaceous plants (planted intentionally)
-day lilies (haven't tried them before, I'll give them a try next year when they have fresh growth)
-daisies
-peonies
-coneflower
-black eyed susan
-tulips
-forget me not
-aster
-flox
-stone crop
-bleeding heart
-hosta (also know they're edible but haven't tried them)
-california poppy
-poppy
-helenium

Established but less abundant
-crocus
-daffodil
-hyacinth
-iris
-allium
-clematis
-astilbe
-Japanese Anemones
 
Nicolas Derome
Posts: 22
Location: Southern Ontario Zone 6
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
By the way, is there any real difference between wild jerusalem artichokes and the varieties sold online? There's an abundance of them growing wild in local parks so I was thinking of getting a few tubers from there unless cultivated varieties are significantly better in some way or another (I don't think they've been cultivated that much though so probably not?).
 
The permaculture playing cards make great stocking stuffers: http://richsoil.com/cards
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic