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Whole House Filtration System - Removing Fluoride  RSS feed

 
Weston Ginther
Posts: 63
Location: NW South Dakota - Zone 4b
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I've been doing some research on the options I have for removing fluoride and other chemicals from the water supply to my whole house. It appears that gravity filters are the best option available but that only covers your drinking and cooking water. My three other main concerns are for my garden, washing clothes and showering. I plan on setting up a rainwater harvesting system to supplement my garden but this past year we received less than 10 inches of rain so this source will be unreliable.

As far as whole-house systems go, I've been able to find three different options: reverse osmosis, filters containing a synthetic aluminum oxide absorbent media and filters containing BoneChar. Unfortunately, the first two seem to have their fair share of drawbacks. Reverse osmosis does a good job at removing the bad stuff but it also removes the good stuff. Sounds like a lot of people compensate by adding some sort of mineral concentrate to their drinking water. Any good recommendations on a non-synthetic, 100% organic and natural mineral concentrate? I drink over 2 L of water a day so I don't necessarily like the idea of having to add something to my water each time I want a drink. The aluminum oxide material seems to do a good job at removing fluoride as well, but I've heard people say this method can add trace amounts of aluminum to your water; not a very good trade-off in my opinion! Is there any science or studies to support this claim? I see that Pelican makes a fluoride filter that utilizes BoneChar as the filter media. They claim it eliminates fluoride by absorption and exchanges in ions. This is the same principle utilized by the aluminum oxide media; which makes me wonder what kind of ions are being released into the water from the BoneChar, anybody know?

Are there other filtration methods that successfully remove fluoride and can be scaled to a whole house system, that I have not came across? Any suggestions, advice or related literature would be greatly appreciated!
 
R Scott
Posts: 3349
Location: Kansas Zone 6a
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Flouride is notoriously hard to remove. I gave up trying to remove it for the whole house. I carbon filter to remove chlorine for the whole house, but only deal with cooking/drinking water for flouride.

The other downside to RO is the cheaper systems usually dumps 80-90% of the water it uses down the drain to flush the system.

We use Real Salt brand salt to get a lot of our trace minerals. Just used in normal cooking gets us enough mineral.
 
greg patrick
Posts: 168
Location: SoCal, USDA Zone 10b
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OK, here's my 2¢: Fluoride is probably bad and I want to avoid it but that's not always practical. So my best options are to supplement with lots of calcium and magnesium, which I do already. Here's why. Fluoride replaces Ca and Mg in our bodies, so if we have a sufficient supply of these metals in our body, Fl is displaced. Most people are severely Mg deficient. Also, it seems dermal absorption is not a huge threat and I'm not too worried about it. Treatment for massive exposures to fluoride in industrial accidents is to administer Ca and Mg, so by drinking lots of raw milk and taking a little 'Natural Calm' Mg Citrate supplement I think we're covered.

---

"Ingestion of fluoride with milk or a diet high in calcium will decrease fluoride
absorption."

"3.3.2. Dermal absorption
No experimental data on the extent of dermal absorption of fluoride from dilute aqueous
solutions are available. As fluoride is an ion it is thus expected to have low membrane
permeability and limited absorption through the skin from dilute aqueous solutions at
near neutral pH (such as drinking water used for bathing and showering). This exposure
pathway is unlikely to significantly contribute to fluoride body burden."

So at least according to this report, dermal absorption of Fluoride appears to be minimal.
I found this here: http://ec.europa.eu/health/scientific_committees/environmental_risks/docs/scher_o_122.pdf . This European study seems unbiased and fair to me.

From another report: "A review of nearly 40,000 research papers listed on National Institutes of Health and other US government Internet sites has failed to discover a single study addressing water fluoridation and dermal absorption." My personal search of PubMed would tend to support this.

Also, "Drug companies use sodium lauryl sulfate (SLS) to enhance the absorption of medicines internally and through the skin. SLS is also found in most shampoos, soaps, bubble baths, and toothpastes. It increases the absorption of Fluoride 10%." We never use products with SLS.

From PubMed: "Calcium chloride administered simultaneously with sodium fluoride reduces the bioavailability of fluoride poisoning in a mouse model. The equivalent dose of magnesium sulfate does not significantly decrease fluoride bioavailability."

 
Weston Ginther
Posts: 63
Location: NW South Dakota - Zone 4b
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R Scott wrote:Flouride is notoriously hard to remove. I gave up trying to remove it for the whole house. I carbon filter to remove chlorine for the whole house, but only deal with cooking/drinking water for flouride.

The other downside to RO is the cheaper systems usually dumps 80-90% of the water it uses down the drain to flush the system.

We use Real Salt brand salt to get a lot of our trace minerals. Just used in normal cooking gets us enough mineral.


Yeah, RO just seems to have too many downsides.

This Pelican filter utilizes BoneChar to remove the fluoride. http://www.pelicanwater.com/whole_house_fluoride_filters.php
The flow rate can reach up to 10 GPM and it has a 300,000 gallon/3 year life-span. I just don't know what kind of ions are being released from the BoneChar into the water...If it turns out to be fairly non-toxic, I'll probably end up going with this filter.
 
Weston Ginther
Posts: 63
Location: NW South Dakota - Zone 4b
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greg patrick wrote:OK, here's my 2¢: Fluoride is probably bad and I want to avoid it but that's not always practical. So my best options are to supplement with lots of calcium and magnesium, which I do already. Here's why. Fluoride replaces Ca and Mg in our bodies, so if we have a sufficient supply of these metals in our body, Fl is displaced. Most people are severely Mg deficient. Also, it seems dermal absorption is not a huge threat and I'm not too worried about it. Treatment for massive exposures to fluoride in industrial accidents is to administer Ca and Mg, so by drinking lots of raw milk and taking a little 'Natural Calm' Mg Citrate supplement I think we're covered.

---

"Ingestion of fluoride with milk or a diet high in calcium will decrease fluoride
absorption."

"3.3.2. Dermal absorption
No experimental data on the extent of dermal absorption of fluoride from dilute aqueous
solutions are available. As fluoride is an ion it is thus expected to have low membrane
permeability and limited absorption through the skin from dilute aqueous solutions at
near neutral pH (such as drinking water used for bathing and showering). This exposure
pathway is unlikely to significantly contribute to fluoride body burden."

So at least according to this report, dermal absorption of Fluoride appears to be minimal.
I found this here: http://ec.europa.eu/health/scientific_committees/environmental_risks/docs/scher_o_122.pdf . This European study seems unbiased and fair to me.

From another report: "A review of nearly 40,000 research papers listed on National Institutes of Health and other US government Internet sites has failed to discover a single study addressing water fluoridation and dermal absorption." My personal search of PubMed would tend to support this.

Also, "Drug companies use sodium lauryl sulfate (SLS) to enhance the absorption of medicines internally and through the skin. SLS is also found in most shampoos, soaps, bubble baths, and toothpastes. It increases the absorption of Fluoride 10%." We never use products with SLS.

From PubMed: "Calcium chloride administered simultaneously with sodium fluoride reduces the bioavailability of fluoride poisoning in a mouse model. The equivalent dose of magnesium sulfate does not significantly decrease fluoride bioavailability."



I understand your perspective but I guess I wouldn't care if 1000 studies said it wasn't okay or if 1000 studies said it was okay; I would still want to avoid any exposure to this chemical. Sure, fluoride does sometimes occur in natural water supplies but I have a feeling that trace amounts from nature are NOT the same thing as a waste product from the phosphate mining and fertilizer industry.
 
Rd Allen
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Hey, Weston - We have been working to become the national experts on the reduction/removal of fluoride on a whole house basis. We are using a multi-stage process the includes both the reactivated activated alumina and a very special type of bone char (many bone chars are simply not effective after being placed in service for a short time). We also include media that reduces heavy metals, including aluminum. pH is a critical factor in the life of a fluoride filter - the more alkaline the less effectiveness and the shorter the useful life. See results on our HealthyHome Solution whole house system in an ongoing field test in San Diego, CA here: http://www.wholehousewaterfilternow.com/update-on-fluoride-reduction-control-filter-evaluation/. It is my opinion, no matter what system you place in service, that you need to self monitor with inexpensive independent lab testing at least every 6 months, if not every 3 months. Because you cannot taste or smell fluoride, you need total control if you are serious about addressing this toxin. You can also learn more about our efforts if you peruse our site at http://www.pureelements.biz - Reach out to me personally if you would like some help with this issue.

Sincerely, RD Allen 949.644.1800
rick@pureelements.biz
 
Joshua Myrvaagnes
pollinator
Posts: 563
Location: Massachusetts, 6b, urban, nearish coast, 39'x60' minus the house, mostly shady north side, + lead.
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From what I've heard, naturally-occurring fluoride is a fluoride-carbon compound; sodium fluoride, the industrial waste product, is very different and reacts very differently in the body. You want to have a tiny amount of either, but the wrong kind is a lot harder on the body.
 
Kris Minto
Posts: 137
Location: Ottawa, Canada -- Zone 4b/5a
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From all the reading I have done, the only effective way to remove fluoride from your water is through a reverse osmosis system which are expensive to buy/install and waste a lot of water. I believe it's around 2 litter for ever 1 litter of treated water but don't quote me on that.

Karnold
 
wayne fajkus
Posts: 722
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This doesn't answer the question, but may be a solution. We do this cause we are on a well with hi sulphur in it.

We simply use a 5 gallon water dispenser for drinking and cooking. The well water is used for bathing and toilet.

Se here's the kicker. Once you have this, filling your own bottled with rainwater is simple.

I'm ranting at this point, but I get dumbfounded how so many people use the good water (rain ) for gardens and plumbed to commodes and the bad water (municipality ) for drinking. How many years of brainwashing happened for us to get to that point.
 
Joy Oasis
Posts: 227
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wayne fajkus wrote:I'm ranting at this point, but I get dumbfounded how so many people use the good water (rain ) for gardens and plumbed to commodes and the bad water (municipality ) for drinking. How many years of brainwashing happened for us to get to that point.

Are you sure, that rain water is always safe? What about the one that comes from clouds above polluted cities?
 
R Scott
Posts: 3349
Location: Kansas Zone 6a
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Joy Oasis wrote:
wayne fajkus wrote:I'm ranting at this point, but I get dumbfounded how so many people use the good water (rain ) for gardens and plumbed to commodes and the bad water (municipality ) for drinking. How many years of brainwashing happened for us to get to that point.

Are you sure, that rain water is always safe? What about the one that comes from clouds above polluted cities?


Maybe bad vs definitely bad.

One thing we have found to minimize the uptake of fluoride is getting enough iodine. Fluoride and bromide will attach to your iodine receptors and stick there--just like carbon monoxide will block oxygen. It just kills you slower. But if your body is saturated with iodine, the fluoride will pass through and be flushed.
 
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