Help with "wobbly" gosling - particularly feed support

Help please: What would be ideal supplemental feed for a gosling that's struggling to eat.
Currently Foster mom, Wobbly, and Hatchmate (who's normal) have a feeder with 20% chick starter in it, and they're on fresh, healthy grass in a bottomless 4'x8' shelter.

However, it's already loosing in the size race compared to Hatchmate.  So I'm thinking supplemental feeding, but not sure what the best ingredients might be.

Possibilities:
Oatmeal with additives so it's not so dry as the chick starter. Chick starter could be added. I know where a bunch of earwigs are hanging out, so I could add them and hope the mix is sticky enough to hold them for a bit.
I've also got rye sourdough starter on the counter which could add healthy microbes to Wobbly's gut.

Ideas welcome! This is totally not my area of expertise.

Back-story:
I use Muscovy to hatch out other birds, and Salty managed to hatch two goslings. One is completely fine and thriving, the other is "wobbly".

I spotted the problem late afternoon Day 1 when I saw that Salty had brought the goslings out of her nest, but Wobbly was sort of collapsed on the bedding shaking. It was cold, so it got the "tuck it in my shirt" warming treatment. Once warm, it was clearly not moving properly, so I brought it down to the house. It took a little liquid porridge on and off, but was young enough I wasn't worried. It's ability to move and control it's head improved a lot that evening. I tucked it in the incubator overnight.

Next morning (yesterday) it seemed to both move and eat better. At one point it was in a bin on the kitchen floor and I was in another room and it was extremely vocal about not liking that arrangement. Back in my shirt, its alarmed voice went back to happy chittering.

So I took it back out to Foster Mom and checked on them several times and things seemed OK. At Goosie Bedtime, both babies were tucked under Mom and she looked happy as if all was well.

This appears to be a neurological problem - think some forms of Cerebral Palsy if it were human. So likely *not* genetic, but a small ischemic attack during hatching (TIA?)  or similar.

Small bird brains are hugely "plastic" - I've seen this in the past. So if I can make sure Wobbly gets enough basic support, it might make a full recovery, or at least have a short but happy life. Mom and Hatchmate will be happier with two small fluffy things than a solo, also from my experience, so within reason, I'm willing to do some extra work here.

If I put a wet feed in the shelter, *all* the birds will partake, so it can't be anything that would hurt a healthy gosling or an adult Muscovy. Otherwise, I have to remove Wobbly for special feeding which I could do at least 3 times/day, but that will be somewhat stressful for Salty. She's an experienced mom, so will be more tolerant than some feathered moms would be.

I'm well aware that the odds aren't great. It's better for my mental status to give this little guy a chance.

Would adding a bit of brewer's yeast help, like it sometimes does, for ducklings? Or possibly a drench with a base of blackstrap molasses & raw apple cider vinegar? We had a couple geese, when I was a teenager, but I didn't really have much to do with them, other than the occasional feeding, so...

Such a sweet thing. Yes, I fully understand.  You need to do everything possible and anything that might help.
Just as an aside and because I'm busy searching through everything I can find about the causes and potential treatments for "essential tremors", goose nervous disorders, and all the rest of the things,  ....
What kind of goose? I love that your Muscovy hatched them out and is taking such good care of them both.

It hasn't been that long since I had a box full of goslings in my kitchen. My computer has been sending me pictures reminding me about all the fluffy butts.
So far I have been eliminating things that it might be, for your little one.

I doubt it's zinc poisoning. It isn't Marek's. I have a long list of other things it isn't.
I agree that getting it through the next few days is critical. You're doing good keeping the little one eating.
 
The oatmeal porridge, blackstrap, Brewer's yeast, rye starter all sound like good things to try. I don't think it'd be a problem if Mom and Sibling had a bit of nibbles, it might encourage a bit of healthy competition for the food. Unless the sick gosling is having trouble with that sort of thing. If it's too frustrating to eat, it might give up. In my experience, though, while my adult geese will happily hog all the treats for themselves until they're full, they are really good at taking care of clutch mates and really respond well to being with their family.

I'll keep looking and will go ask my gaggle of three if they have any ideas.

I'm not sure how applicable this is to goslings, but ducklings require high protein (preferably live) and niacin food sources early in their development to avoid rubber leg syndrome. I think the recommendation is 20% protein for the first few week and in the wild that's easy since they're always fossicking around for bugs and worms. Niacin is present in many feeds but low in grains.

You've got the protein part sorted and I would think that covers the niacin requirement as well, so maybe it's a case of something else limiting the availability of nutrients.

Runt goslings are a thing.
I sat down with my computer after spending too much time talking to my geese. I was reminded of my Magellan, the goose who drove me to start being much more active here with Permies.
Magellan was a runt, easily 2/3 the size of my largest gosling as a 3-day-old and the size difference was alarming. She was weaker than the others, but didn't have the neurological trouble that your gosling does.

Though she did grow, she was so very much smaller than the other 4, I worried that she was not going to survive. She managed quite well, probably to spite me.
If it were only a matter of size, I wouldn't worry for your fuzz-butt. Because it is more than that, and there is a much more serious component to the problem, you are doing wonderful things.

Niacin and protein are key, as is getting tasty food into the munchkin. I agree that offering a variety of foods is probably your better bet, especially as it's practically impossible job, right now, to figure out what vitamins or minerals might be best to provide supportive health care and provide optimum benefits. Without getting very expensive medical tests, which I wouldn't even suggest because the stress isn't worth it, you're left treating the symptoms which, to be honest, is all a vet would do at this time.

I wish I had a magic wand. I wish I could point to something and say, dramatically, "That's the culprit! And here's how you flush it from the gosling!"
Clean water with ACV, with mother if you can, in glass, plastic, or ceramic dishes. Lean into niacin and protein. Live yogurt, if they'll eat it. All the good bugs and such. Probiotics and fresh, healthy greens. Warm, clean spaces, good airflow, supportive care.
Please, pamper the XX out of the three of them because miracles do happen, sometimes.
I'll continue to send good vibes and thoughts into the universe for the family.

Brewers yeast = niacin. Just adding some to the feed ought to help, then.

Wobbly is moving much better than the first day, but is still a little wobbly - sorry I can't upload video, only stills which today would look pretty normal!

This is what alerted me to a problem Day 1:


One cold and seeming non-functional little gosling. However, it's amazing what warmth alone will do, and by dinner time, Wobbly was napping in my farm apron pocket!



So Wobbly made it through last night with his foster mom and hatchmate. I made them up some "porridge" with oats, water, yoghurt, 20% starter crumble and some Cod Liver oil my friend has for her chickens that live at my farm. Mom looked very suspiciously at it, but when I came back to check just before lunch, most of it was gone - but into whom??? I mixed them up some more when I was in the field just before dinner, but it was gosling naptime, so I delivered it very quietly. I suspect sleep is just as important as activity at this point.

I did see Wobbly eating out of the crumble feeder along with Hatchmate. When I saw him drink out of the waterer, he still did the atypical action of his head tilting way further back than is normal. When moving, he still has subtle "wobbliness" that I suspect many people wouldn't even notice. Seeing it eat along with Hatchment is the most positive sign. If the porridge disappears, I'll try to give more for the next few days. I do know I have to be *very* careful - goslings that get too much protein are very prone to Angle Wing. However, I'll feel better if I see Wobbly growing. That said, Foster-mom Salty and Hatchmate are looking happy as a little family, so even if Wobbly doesn't make it in the long run, I feel like I've given him/her a fighting chance.

Thanks to everyone for their input, and I will post updates as time goes along.

I managed to get a few pictures at Geese bedtime (adults that is). The goslings were up and active and eating crumble, but I didn't see either of them eat the porridge although again, someone had been into it while I wasn't there to see it. If it's Salty eating it, I don't begrudge that, as after setting for 4 weeks, and now having almost lost one of her only 2 babies, she deserves some extra nutrition! Muscovy like *lots* of babies.

However, here's a picture with Wobbly in front of Hatchmate and clearly on the smaller size. We have an adult female goose who lagged in growth and it still noticeably smaller, so it may be a characteristic of the Heinz 57 geese I'm raising!



However, after having some food, they both went over to get some water. Wobbly both used the odd neck posture as seen below, and also took many more sips of water than Hatchmate which may mean that Wobbly's having difficulty with drinking.



It would be nice to have seen Wobbly try the wet food, for if he can manage wet food, that would get extra liquid into him. That said, no one's rushing him to drink faster and considering how much better he's moving around in barely 48 hours, I will watch and wait and simply hope for the best!

What adorable babies!
Wobbly looks much better! Being able to eat and move around is fantastic!
I agree that no one's rushing him, he's got all the time he needs to do whatever. If Mom is eating the porridge, I'm sure both goslings are trying it, too.
My hens go wacky over chick feed/porridge, but the babies tend to follow after Mom, so I wouldn''t worry.
As long as he's eating and drinking something, troubles or not, he's looking much better.

I also agree that the neck posture might indicate something. He's over compensating and that's worrisome, but he's also trying. That's good.

Your little fighter is a cute conundrum.  

Time for another update!
Wobbly is still doing well even though I see odd neck movements at times.


In fact, today, I actually opened the pop door and let Salty take the two goslings out for a bit of a walk. Unfortunately, first the adult geese unnerved them by honking at them, and then my PITA young male Muscovy made a play for Salty totally upsetting her. She took flight, and I grabbed babies and put them back in through the pop-door. When Mom landed, I guided her back home, and she went in promptly. It was a pretty short outing! That said, what I wanted to know was whether in the outside world, Wobbly would stay with and keep up with her hatchmate and she did just fine. She's clearly smaller, but the ratio still seems about the same, so clearly Wobbly's growing.

However, in the meantime, we've had *another* malfunction on the farm. Muscovy are generally great moms. Unfortunately, a first time mom was hatching Khakis and didn't make the transition from "setting" to "brooding".  With everything that was happening at the time, I didn't realize how big the problem was until she'd lost 2 out of the 3 ducklings. I moved her to a mini-hoop thinking that would do the trick, but she showed no interest in Khaki duckling, and duckling needed a mom quickly at this point. I tried asking Salty to take it, but Salty said, "No way - your baby, not mine!"

However, BWD had just hatched two goslings, and had one egg left and I was pretty sure it wasn't going to hatch. I put the duckling in her nest box and she objected at first, but duckling sensed warmth and safety and ran between her legs to join the goslings at the back! I distracted BWD by taking her last goose egg. It showed no sign of pipping, so I candled it and it was clearly not viable. I figured I'd leave BWD and the babies in their setting area overnight, and by the time I got to them in the morning, they were family! No idea how confused little Khaki's going to be, but better a feathered mom than me!



This picture was a couple of days ago, and today they were all bouncing around the mini-hoop being happy babies as if this sort of blended family was just fine with all of them!

What wonderful news! How exciting!
When Momma Birds get their "Momming groove" on, there's little that can stop them.
I'm so very glad that Wobbly is doing better and is growing so well!
Those nervous ticks tend to stick around. She'll always have a head wobble, but I'm so glad it's getting better and she's moving in a controlled manner and without too many problems.

A bit of an exciting introduction to the flock and The Big Wide World. I don't blame anyone for a moment of panic, except maybe Mr. Muscovy. Silly boy.

I'm sorry that your other Muscovy didn't make the mental shift. I've had similar trouble with new moms who just wanted to brood eggs and wanted nothing to do with those little noise makers. It's frustrating, but I'm glad you and the duckling were able to work things out with the other Muscovy.
That Khaki duckling is 1/4 the size of the goslings! Mom won't care and I have noticed that goslings seem to be nicer to their clutch-mates than some chicks. Not as much intra-clutch dominance stuff, but that might just be my faulty memory or bad observations.

Your gosling/duckling/Muscovy confusion is working beautifully! Congratulations!

What lovely news!! I'm so happy they're all figuring things out!

Where did the last 6 1/2 weeks go??? Update time!

Wobbly  and Mattie are BIG! That said, goslings get big fast. They are both living with our three adult geese who are still very protective. Wobbly's behavior suggests male, but I'm not taking bets on that. The two are neck and neck for size at this point, so despite the rough start, Wobbly clearly knows what food is and how to convince me he's starving and needs a little chicken feed! However, Wobbly *still* does the weird drinking posture. I would not want to breed Wobbly, so the likely plan will be freezer camp, or sell as a "guard goose" to a farm which doesn't intend to breed. He's got a lovely personality so far.

What's interesting, is that the adults haven't made a move for the next two goslings. That would be the two that were mothered with the Khaki duckling. I tried introducing Khaki to some slightly older khakis, but alas, that was not to be, so the "Odd Triplex" is still just that. They now go to bed with the adult Muscovy, and pretty much hang as a 3-some in the field during the day, occasionally hanging with the adults, but not consistently.

Our last goslings of the season, are three healthy young things hatched by Bishop, an experienced, awesome, Muscovy mom. I just had to post "before" and "after" pictures:

First up, is Day 2 when they'd just been moved to grass.


Here they were at bedtime yesterday! Exactly 4 weeks old, and taller than Mom, although I think Mom likely out-masses them still.


They will likely have to start going to bed in the Muscovy shelter by the end of this week, as I'm expecting a hatch of more Khaki ducklings. We're still having intermittent very hot days, so the hatch a week ago only yielded a single duckling, and the hatch 2 days ago, got me 4 Muscovy ducklings. The problem is that a Mom with a single baby takes up just as much infrastructure as a gaggle of younglings, and infrastructure is very short at the moment.

I can't stress enough that anyone interested in having animals and starting any sort of breeding program is that I'd aim for 3 times the infrastructure you think you'll need. For whatever reason, I've got birds going broody as fast as they feel they can dump their off-spring on the group at large!  Despite all the babies I've got growing, I've got 4 moms on eggs and have been struggling to get infrastructure cleaned out before there's another mom wanting to fill it.

That said, there's nothing like babies for entertainment value!

They're adorable! I love their persistent fluffiness and can almost hear their peeping from here. They look healthy and happy. Moms always have enough weight to throw around and get their way. Geese are especially good about that - the "listening to Mom" part.

I love gosling teenagers. They are a delightful mix of absolute confidence they can handle anything and fluffy awkwardness.

Yes. I agree about the infrastructure problem. There's never enough and you're always repairing, creating new spaces, or trying to figure out a solution to the continuous problem.
My teenage chickens are still hanging out together in their "introduction" pen. I have one baby chick who's following mom around and they would fill a pen, just the two of them. Not worth the struggle of trying to convince them to cooperate.

Kristine Keeney wrote: I have one baby chick who's following mom around and they would fill a pen, just the two of them. Not worth the struggle of trying to convince them to cooperate.

It's a fine line between "anthropomorphizing" and recognizing and accepting that animals have opinions, preferences, and personalities.

For example, my mini-hoops for new moms have hardware cloth at the bottom of one end, and this seems to have really helped with the "meet and greet" the other ducks and geese from a position of safety. However, our geese *really* tend to be in the face of babies this year, and my newest Mom is a first timer who was showing more anxiety about the situation than many of our moms would - they'd show off those babies and act like "look what I've got - they're mine!" So I actually put a few sections of X-pen fencing (that stuff is sooo... useful) in a semi-circle in front of her window so the geese can still see, but they're now kept a few feet further away. She needs moving to fresh grass today, and I'll hopefully be able to dispense with the X-pen, but I'll observe her behavior before making a final decision.

They're so cute, and they really do grow at lightening speed, don't they??? Our ducklings are almost as big as their moms, at this point, too - except the runt, lol. We always seem to have one little straggler, and they always steal our hearts, because even at half the size of the others, that little one never gives up, insists on keeping up with the others (which is incredibly adorable to watch, as their little bodies waddle at 2x the wobble of the rest!), and they don't let the others push them around, or keep them out of the food. They steal our hearts, because they show so much heart!

So, with 16 ducklings at about the same age as yours and the 3chicks, only a few days younger, all out free-ranging with their moms and 1 other duck, and 2 other hens, the noise level outside is crazy, every time we walk out the door, and everywhere we go, we have a parade following along. It's pretty hilarious, and even the goats stop whatever they're doing, to watch. I've been debating when I want to let the rest of the chickens out of the coop. I'm a bit concerned they'll harass the mama hen and her 3 chicks - but, they need to be loosed, too.

Wobbly is 7 weeks old now - that tiny thing that could sleep in my pocket, certainly won't fit now!



The Lady at the front is our young female, Robyn. The Lady at the back with Angle Wing, is our rescue goose, Bella. The grey fuzzy bird leading is Wobbly, and Hatchmate is the one between the adults. So Wobbly looks smaller than Hatchmate, but he's broader in the body than Mattie. There's not enough difference to blame his wobbliness over just natural genetic differences.

They're beautiful, Jay!! You did well!

Absolutely stunning geese! I love how happy and healthy they look.
You did great with Wobbly - giving them the chance they needed to make it through those rough early days. Your care and patience paid off!

Maybe you need bigger pockets? A goose sized pocket would be different, but the kangaroo pockets found on some hoodies and pullovers might work - if the goose cooperates!

Hi there! My Chinese gosling is currently 1 week old and SO much smaller than it's sibling, I mean half the size. She barely seems like she's growing at all. I see her eat and drink and she actually eats more often than the larger gosling, but much smaller amounts and much smaller water consumption. They are eating duck starter and I have put Sav-A-Chic electrolytes in their water for the past few days. I also mash up peas for them. She also seems "wobbly", and holds her head weird at times or seemingly bites at the air and acts as if she thinks she's actually eating/drinking water but in fact she's just biting at thin air. She runs around with spurts of energy, seems happy, and peeps cheerfully at me when I speak to her, however when she sleeps she has a slight wheeze/mini honk each time she exhales. Does this sound at all like your own "Wobbly" experience last year? I'm desperate to help her survive but am overwhelmed with different conflicting information I've read. Avian/bird vets are absolutely not an option in my area despite it being very rural, larger farm animals are the specialty. Do you have any specific suggestions that you'd try FIRST? Should I just leave her be and cross my fingers? The brooder is inside my house so they are plenty warm, have plenty of fresh food and water throughout the day, and I constantly change their bedding. I have experience with geese, ducks, chickens and turkeys and I've NEVER had a chick die nor have any ever had any issues so, while I know this is an old post, I'm desperate! I would appreciate any insight you'd be willing to give!

Welcome to permies, Tasha.

So both goslings are Chinese, and both were incubator hatched?

I understand that you've had a perfect record up until now, but holding the head weird is likely a sign of damage to the brain - sort of like a mini-stroke, or lack of oxygen at some point during the hatching process. So the first thing is to not blame yourself. Sometime Mother Nature just doesn't get it right.

I have had several incidences of mechanical or cerebral injuries to baby birds. Generally, I have had to cull them eventually, but most of them had a good childhood with one bad day. At some point, they become a target for our many flying predators whom I don't want to think my field is good hunting ground.

It sounds as if the bird has no excuse to have picked up a parasite, but that's the one thing you might be able to help if it has. Diatomaceous earth mixed into the feed can help according to some sources and it is natural.

Good luck and keep us posted. Maybe someone else will have some ideas also.

My feed stores sell "Chick Boost," which is a probiotic and vitamin supplement. I know it's helped my chicks who've developed pasty butt, and it probably helps with other things, too.

Another thing that might help is putting some grass in their brooder. My goslings love eating grass. They don't touch their feed nearly as much as grass. I'll rip up the sod that grows over my patio and place a chunk in my brooder, and goslings go WILD. Geese are largely grass and weed-eaters. So a diet of just seeds probably isn't as interesting to them, nor is it likely as healthy.

Another thing you might be able to do is take the gosling outside on a sunny day, even for 30 minutes. Goslings don't mind the cold as much as other birds, and mine still go crazy for grass, even when it's 55ºF and cloudy outside. They'll get cold and want a heat lamp after a bit, but they really devour a lot of grass in that short amount of time!

Nicole Alderman wrote:My feed stores sell "Chick Boost," which is a probiotic and vitamin supplement. I know it's helped my chicks who've developed pasty butt, and it probably helps with other things, too.

Good idea about the probiotic Nicole! We tend to think that "clean" is good, but many animals need to pick up "good microbes" from their mothers to have a healthy gut. I recall that rabbits (primarily grass/forb/root eaters also) have to eat a type of excrement their mother's give them in order to have healthy guts.

I tend to forget these sorts of details because my goslings are always hatched and raised by Muscovy moms which are close relatives to geese.