Making paint from plants?

I've been admiring the amazing art from earth pigments but I don't think making these is in my near future.

However, I've recently learned about lake pigments.  These are pigments made from plants like madder.

I want to know more!  

What it would be like to make some watercolour paints like this?

It looks like we use chemicals (alum and washing soda) to precipitate out the pigment into a powder - is there a natural way (aka, materials I can source on my property)?  

Do we use the same plants as dye plants?  Is it the same stuff as dyestuff?  Is the lightfastness of dyes a good indication as to how well the pigment would do as paint?  Would it matter if it's staying in a sketchbook?  

And what's this I hear about archival?  Is that something I need to care about?  It seems related to PH.

Then I got thinking about the plants on my property.

Yellows
- weld gives the best lightfastness but other plants like coriopsis make a warmer yellow.  
- Oregon grape root makes a brilliant yellow.

Reds
- madder of course.  This always leans towards orange when I use it in dye here.  Something in the water probably.
- arbutus bark usually gives a red-brown.  That would be lovely!
- I would love a purple-red, but I'm not sure what would make that.  blackberries stain and aren't very light fast, but could that make a pigment for paint?


Blues are difficult. For some reason the woad patch I hoped would self-seed has died out.  But I have some powder I made previously so I could use that.

Greens are easy.  
- rhubarb and nettles are in abundance here.


And then there is tree stuff like the black knot I need to take off the plum trees.  plum bark and wood is used to make various pigments, but would the knot have more tannin in it?  It would be interesting to find out.


I'm probably a year or so away from trying this, but I can start gathering materials now.  

Watching videos about making paint from Madder, I noticed there was a lot of confusion between the different alums.  Most were using garden alum which is generally Potassium Alum Sulfate and Aluminum Acetate.  The first is really common in dyeing protein fibres like wool and silk, but needs additional help (like tannin) if used with cellulose fibres like cotton and linen.  Whereas the second is more often used to mordant cellulose fibres.

A highly scientific method

More chaotic style

This one is from leftover dye baths.  I always have trouble exhausting my natural dye bath, so this would be a great solution to save the pigment for later use.

What about dried beet powder?

Oh, wow, r!! I have an old logwood dye bath that I didn't have the heart to toss! It's SUCH a lovely, deep purple! I think I'll try this, and see how it works. I know the bath has separated, so I might be able to get a jump start by pouring off the water, first...

I'm very attracted to the part where we can make the paint in different stages.

extract the pigment

make the binder

make the paint

let paint dry

paint whenever.

It can be days, weeks, or even years between the stages.  Very low pressure.  

Robert Ray wrote:What about dried beet powder?

The first video he's using madder powder, washes it, boils it to extract the pigment, then goes on to make the dye.  So I think that would work well with beet too.  

Here are word instructions for taking a dye bath and extracting the pigment to use for paint.

https://www.kaliko.co/blogs/articles/turning-natural-dye-into-pigment

Could I use baking soda instead of washing soda? Sodium Bicarbonate instead of Sodium Carbonate?

Evidently the soda ash/washing soda is just to alkalinize it so idk why not?

OMGoodness can you imagine this with pokeberries??? I'll bet there would be some crazy color changes.

Almond Thompson wrote:Could I use baking soda instead of washing soda? Sodium Bicarbonate instead of Sodium Carbonate?

Baking soda isn't very alkaline.   Probably want something a bit stronger.

According to Google,  washing soda is about ph 11, baking soda,  ph 8.

But it would be a good experiment to try.

We were just out checking on some family property and found a  oak gall.
My eldest had told me about an ink recipe using these, and this was the first one I've seen since then.
It's tennis ball sized, I wonder if it's enough to do anything with...

This type of pigment is called lake, and it seems to be the salt from the alkali and acid mixing that grabs hold of the colours to make the powder.   I wonder if the type of salt has an influence on the fastness of the colours?

Thank you for this!!!

I've always seen things like "blue lake" and "red lake" and wondered what those were!

r ranson wrote:It looks like we use chemicals (alum and washing soda) to precipitate out the pigment into a powder - is there a natural way (aka, materials I can source on my property)?

If wikipedia is anywhere near accurate, you might be able to utilize crushed eggshells or other calcium sources to to get calcium salts (instead of using alum). wikipedia article on lake pigments:

wikipedia wrote:The metallic salts or binders used are typically colourless or almost so. The organic component of the dye determines the color of the resulting precipitate. In ancient times chalk, white clay, and crushed bones were used as sources of the calcium salts.

EDIT: It looks like the calcium salts used are "calcium sulphate." Which looks rather difficult to make? It seems like you'll need sulphuric acid. From this US patent "Process for preparing calcium sulphate"

A simple process for preparing acicular calcium sulphate dihydrate is provided in which a slurry of calcium carbonate containing 100 to 800 grams per liter calcium carbonate is mixed with a solution of sulphuric acid containing 80 to 500 grams per liter sulphuric acid in proportions which produce a calcium sulphate

Today I learned that Calcium Sulphate is called gypsum, as well as "alabaster"! This article hurts my head, and doesn't really answer the question of how to make calcium sulfate Caveman Chemistry: 28 Projects, from the Creation of Fire to the Production of Plastics. But, I have the feeling the answer might be in there somewhere, and that the whole book seems like a really good resource.

It looks like maybe you can make pigment with calcium carbonate and no added alkali? These are psuedo-lake pigments, according to Natural Pigment's article on "Pink—A Pseudo Lake Pigment?"

Harley believes that the English word pink referred to a pseudo-lake pigment, differentiating it from lake pigments, for which the English word lake described. Some of the treatises cited in another article describe depositing the dye on alum (aluminum sulfate potash) or chalk (calcium carbonate). This differs from the process used to make lake pigments, where the dye is precipitated on freshly made aluminum hydroxide. Interestingly, aluminum hydroxide is made by dissolving alum or aluminum sulfate in water and then precipitating it in a chemical reaction with an alkali, such as soda ash (sodium carbonate) or pearl ash (potassium carbonate), by adding this alkali dissolved in water to the first solution. Aluminum hydroxide precipitates from the solution as a powder, gel, or horny mass, depending upon the temperature and pH of the solutions. This procedure is quite different from the treatises for making Dutch pink.

Terry describes the process in detail that is similar to other writers:

Pour into this mixture [the previously prepared solution of dye—Ed.] warm, and at different times, a solution of two pounds of the sulphate of alumine (alum) in five pounds of water : a slight effervescence will take place ; and the sulphate being decomposed, the alumine, which is precipitated, will seize on the colouring part. The liquor must then be filtered through a piece of close linen, and the paste which remains on the cloth, when divided into square pieces, is exposed on boards to dry. This is brown Dutch pink, because the clay in it is pure. The intensity of the colour shows the quality of this pink, which is superior to that of the other compositions.

There is no mention of any alkali in his instructions that would form aluminum hydroxide, which is the method for making lake pigments.

I wonder by leaving that mess on her nice counter top if it stained it?