Pepo Winter Squash - A list of prospects...

I've touched on pepo landrace crosses a bit in the past, as have others, but I'm trying to get ideas for Pepo pumpkin varieties that are edible and palatable for winter storage rather than as summer squash.  I'm looking to create a list of potential candidates & what they're best suited for.  I'm leaning away from gourds, spaghetti squash & most typical summer squash varieties.  I want to focus on medium-large sized mature fruit that will store well & have a decent thickness of good edible flesh.  I'll begin with a few common edible pepo pumpkins that I'm aware of, but also desire to know about any historical varieties that would fit here:

Connecticut Field Pumpkin
Howden Pumpkin (a more standardized refinement of Connecticut Field Pumpkin)
Winter Luxury Pie pumpkin
New England Pie
Long pie pumpkin/Algonquian
An assortment of commercially available F1's in the smaller sugar pie category
Maycock Squash (Tall White Selection)
Mandan Squash (proposed original source of Sweet Dumpling/Delicata types)
Menominee Squash (recommended as dual purpose)
Carnival (cross of acorn & sweet dumpling?)
Sweet Dumpling
Acorn (green/black), white, golden yellow, etc.)
Delicata (not sure which strains are best/sweetest)
Goldini (recommended as dual purpose)
Thelma Sanders' sweet potato squash (Acorn type)
Golden Pippin (small Acorn type)

I consider the pepo pumpkins unsuitable for human food. Sure people eat them, but only after adding a ton of sugar and oil.

I find the best pepo flavor in Acorn/Delicata. They could be crossed and/or selected for larger fruits.

Zucchini allowed to mature become Mallows, which have a long history of use as winter squash. Some of the yellow fleshed ones like Goldini might work as tasty winter squash.

I hold onto ghastly childhood memories of spaghetti squash served with tomato sauce, so it hangs out on my naughty list.

I like the pepo squash variety “Thelma Sanders Sweet Potato.” This is an open-pollinated, tan acorn squash. In my garden it was very productive, about 6 fully ripened squash per vine. Survives squash-borer by rooting along the vine if you let it grow on the ground. Flesh in the best ones was comparable to a maxima squash— fine grained, sweet, and dry. However, quality varied from year to year, if they are overwatered and underripe due to weather, then blander.

This variety is available from Seed Savers and some commercial seed companies.

Good info so far, thanks! I'll have to look into Thelma Sanders sweet potato squash.

Does anyone know anything about Mandan Squash?

I haven't grown Mandan Squash. They belong to the same subspecies as Acorn/Delicata.

Pepo squash got domesticated in two different locations. The Appalachian domestication taste better as fruit. The Oaxacan domestication grow larger, and were primarily grown for the seeds.

Maycock (Tall White Selection) Squash Landrace - The Experimental Farm Network, mentions that they grew 4 selections of Maycock out in 2023, together.

'Maxidiwiac' (Buffalo Bird Woman) Summer Squash - is another C. pepo grex.

Maycocks aren't very sweet. Their usage as "Winter Squash" usually refers to drying the squash and using it over the winter.


I've also mentioned Goldini / Goldini 2, elsewhere.

As Joseph said, a mature one may work as a tasty winter squash.


I refuse to touch spaghetti squash, but I've seen family use it as a spaghetti substitute.

I'd like to confirm that it neither smells or tastes like spaghetti. I gave it a small sample.

It tasted like a tasteless, stringy and mealy squash but cooked and with some added ingredients.


Guicoy and Mongogo Du Guatemala, are from Central America.

Ones featured in  mayan pottery. The other is a heirloom from Guatemala.




Mongogo Du Guatemala, is supposed to be "sweet, succulent, and nutty tasting."

Online reviews, show that the fruit resembles a smaller sized pumpkin, pretty ornamental looking.

Younger fruits can be used as a summer squash.


Guicoy has some green inner parts. It can also be used as a summer or winter squash.



While C. pepo was pretty much domesticated at two different times / areas.

Different tribes made their own spins on things, probably had genetic donations from wild relatives nearby.

Some different nearby groups seem to have focused on seed usage as mentioned, or on sweeter fruits.


Delicata and Acorn squash, are mostly crosses or things introduced by Europeans after they tinkered with some squash.

But, both probably came from native americans from similar areas.


There are sweet Central American, Acorn squash / flavorful types from way over there.


It's also been mentioned to me elsewhere, that there are non bitter gourds.

Those would be used as decorations or as food.


So, you'd have Maycocks which are rather bland and may taste more like Zucchini than Acorn squash and things.

Depends on the populations.

Then there's the ones used just for seed. They can sometimes be used as storage vessels. Carrying water and things. Cured gourds can become pretty thick and last awhile.


Then there's the sweeter, nicer tasting squash.

Somewhere in there, you have the C. pepo "pumpkins" which are sometimes advertised as being used for pumpkin pie and things.

But, they taste bad compared to grocery store puree pumpkin pie things. Because those are usually made from C. moschata.


Acorn and Delicata squash can actually store for a little while longer than some people think.


Sugar Pie pumpkins, the mini ones. There are a few that are more than just super sweet types.


I'm leaning towards a dislike of rounded pumpkins, myself.

Acorn squash isn't as sweet as some pumpkins. Ideally, you'd have a nutty / sweet pumpkin.

Most C. pepo pumpkins, even pie ones, are just sweet.


Candystick Dessert Delicata, has a different Delicata flavor than usual.

Joseph also has a Delicata / Acorn squash grex that's out there somewhere.

If you could find something that tastes a bit like Acorn squash and Delicata, that would probably be ideal.


Then mix those into something sweeter. C. pepo has been declining in favor of tastier squash from C. moschata.


Most of the larger, pumpkin sized fruits are from the same groups as one another.

Smaller types, like Sweet Dumpling - those are nice with their sweetness.

But again, they're lacking in anything other than sweetness. So people usually have to add to them.



I've also been interested in making sweeter / tastier C. pepos.

But I'd also like to cross gourds, maycocks and some wild types over into a separate population and create longer / larger types which aren't found in the sweeter / tastier groups.

Stringyness is annoying to me.

So that's also something to work out of a population.


I can try to keep on looking for other sweeter or nice C. pepos.

Mandan squash, was grown by the Mandan Indians of North Dakota.


This would likely mean that it's not just in the same subspecies as Delicata and Acorn squash, it's likely from the exact same area, ancestor wise. Recent ancestor wise, since they were probably bred by Europeans into Delicata and Acorn - stabilized types.


The colorations and things on them very much resemble them as well.

Probably still worth mixing into a grex.


But again, Guicoy and Mongogo Du Guatemala are from Central America. They would fall into Central American types, used for non seed usage.

Which is great. Outside of accessions from the USDA, it's difficult to source or even find information on these types at all.

I'm sure that these types have been mixed into pumpkins.

But yeah. Worth growing.


Dunno if these are of interest to you.

Wow! Thanks Garrett, I actually just looked up a few of those coincidentally.  Lots of food for thought there.  Thanks all for the info.

I have this pepo. Definitely has the size. I have been eating them as standard zucchini, this is only this size because it's one I'm saving for seed. No idea what it is, since it's in a mix of stuff for my zucchini landrace. Looks similar to a kousa type, which may have been in the mix, but I couldn't say at this point. It's a vining type. Like, the plant is at least 20 feet across, when I was expecting a bush type, and massacred a bunch of my corn. 😅

I wasn't planning to eat it. I don't have high hopes, given the nature of the larger zucchinis from this plant. But I guess I'll give it a try when I harvest the seeds and see if it's worth eating. I suspect not, but it might surprise me.

I'm a big fan of moschata & maximas as my winter squash and have no intention of replacing them with pepo.  However, I happen to have stumbled onto some already mixed up seed via volunteers from last year's fall decorations then potentially combined with this year's volunteers & neighboring summer squash. I was originally going to toss the seed, but curiosity has me wondering what I'll get, & if I can sway the population toward something useful in a bush habit.

Anyway, here's what's currently in the mix.  In all honesty, I'd rather use the growing space for more moschata, but you know... curiosity.

-Ornamental orange jack o lantern mother. It's seed produced a volunteer seedling that was tall, slightly triangular cross sectioned orange skinned pumpkin with a few light bumps on skin. Vigorous vine ran in 4 directions. Good keeper.

-Orange & yellow striped ornamental pumpkin, small but not tiny, pale interior if I remember correctly.  Volunteer 2nd generating seedling grew vigorous bush type vines with 6 fruit. I kept the largest 3. They had a round ball shape with hard skin & no ribbing. Very good keeper.

- Sugar pie pumpkin volunteer right next to above orange & yellow striped pumpkin volunteer produced 3 edible typical orange skinned true to type fruit on a bush type vine with little spread. Did not save these seeds since I had pure sugar pie pumpkin seed. Possible pollen donor.

Neighbor plot had dark green acorn squash that was small, but survived being ignored all season.

Opposite neighbor had yellow straight neck summer squash.

Other plots had zucchini.

So, I'll save seed from large orange pumpkin & 3 2nd generation blaze pumpkins to see what grows in 3rd generation. They could've been pollinated by any of the above, or self pollinated. Perhaps I'll add winter luxury pumpkin, delicata, sweet dumpling, etc. to add more winter squash traits/palatability to the mixes? I'm not picky about shape per se, but they could be anywhere between large pumpkin shaped to elongated, round, tall, or acorn ribbed.  Have to see what grows though.... when/if I grow them out in a couple years.

Kind of curious about Algonquian pumpkin.  I think it's the same as long pie pumpkin just renamed. Anyone try these?

If your only beef with spaghetti squashes is the shelf life, the spaghetti squashes I grow in my garden seem to have a shelf life of over eight months.  Probably well over a year -- I still have three on a shelf that I harvested almost exactly a year ago, and I'm going to open them up in a month or two to eat them.  They're still hard, no signs of spoiling, so I expect they'll be great.  Out of the spaghetti squashes I harvested in the previous year, none went bad or moldly, and I ate the last one eight months after harvesting it.  They were delicious.

I have wondered if the original plants I got may have been the result of an accidental cross.  I don't know; I got those plants as transplants from Lowes.  They're different from grocery store spaghetti squash: they're huge (my largest was two feet long and a foot wide), tastier, with less pronounced strings, and with an extremely long shelf life.

I'd be happy to send you seeds if you'd like some.  Just PM me.  

It seems like I took these pictures on the 22nd of this month.


I started formulating ideas on the 14th. Posted about them elsewhere.

Probably should've posted about them here too, now that I think about it.

Basically I'd mix some Tennessee Spinning Gourds, which are likely C. pepo var. ozarkana rather than ovifera as they're advertised as.


Mix that, with maybe some C. texana / C. pepo var. texana, plus some ornamental gourds. Possibly C. lundelliana and other species as well.


Mix them up enough, that I know they all have their genetics all throughout the population.


Then I'd have a population of possibly soapy / bitter tasting things.

Then I'd weed the soapyness out, hopefully.

Then grow the population next to a Goldini x Crookneck grex. Select for something that's lacking in bitterness.

Or I could try mixing them into a population of Maycocks.


At the same time I'd possibly be using Joseph's Acorn x Delicata grex and mixing in Mongogo Du Guatemala and Guicoy, along with some other things, potentially.


Eventually I'd like to mix those together once they're ready.



Of course that's just a mapped out little plan.

I'd like to have C. pepos with multiple bands of black and yellow on them. Plus borer resistances, different from the genes or resistance found in C. maxima and moschata. Plus other nice genes and things.


I don't mean to say replace C. pepo can replace other winter squash species.

But, other species summer squash varieties usually taste better than other ones. And they're starting to slowly replace C. pepo.


If we were to breed a disease and pest resistant, tastier than other C. pepos, with larger more colorful fruits, compared to other populations and the like.


That could revitalize interest in its usage.


I originally commented about this stuff elsewhere, someone was talking about crossing C. pepo and C. moschata.

I mentioned that they may not be too compatible or be able to cross back and forth like C. maxima and moschata - so making a superior mix first would be ideal.


Somehow I ended up making a whole new project while making up plans and things.


The first image here, is from a greenhouses gourd.

I purchased the others.


The long crookneck looking giant gourd, there are some Maycocks with a similar look to it.

But again, bicolor and it's a gourd.


I'll likely save seed from those. I don't know how true to type they'll be.


But yeah, that's why I had a bunch of information on C. pepo.

Maybe I missed it, but the questions I still have is why you'd want a pepo for storage? I grow both maximas and pepos so I can specifically have one population for summer squash and one population for winter squash. Is the goal to end up with a dual purpose squash? Or is there some other trait in the pepos that you're trying to capture?

You might also consider that pepos grown for storage might be used differently than maximas grown for storage. I can't recall whether she was discussing maximas or pepos, but I remember that in The Resilient Gardener, Carol Deppe suggested growing larger squashes for drying in slices to use as an alternative to bread. I want to say that she was specifically discussing pepos in that section, but I'd have to find and dig through my copy because I can't remember off the top of my head.

Matthew,

It seems to me that pepos have some of the most genetic variation of all squash species with regard to size, shape color combination, flesh quality, preferred use, etc.  As such, it seems that everyone that wants to attempt a landrace project with them also seem to have their own preferences, likes/dislikes, tastes, goals, etc.  Some speak of combining the best flavor qualities of a few varieties for a no fail delicious squash with some genetic variability.  To me, that's a very good choice.  Others broaden their genetics with the goal of having both summer squash when eaten immature and a winter squash for mature consumption since you're saving seed from mature fruit anyway.  

To answer your question of why someone would want a pepo winter squash, I can only speak for myself.  I grow both Moschata & Maxima for my winter squash, so do I NEED a Pepo winter squash?  No, I don't.  I don't really care for summer squash, but that may change over time.  For me, I like the idea of being able to have another option.  I've seen instances in my reading that speak of Native Americans using Pepo varieties cut into ribbons or spirals, then air dried.  To me that sounds like a good trail food that doesn't require refrigeration, and can be eaten while travelling much like jerky, pemmican, or other "trail" foods.  Also, I'm curious about what new flavors I might discover in a fully cured winter Pepo.  

Also, as I mentioned above, I have have a 3 generation head start on trying this project, so don't have much to lose other than growing space.  If at anytime I don't like the direction I'm heading, I can stop or redirect my efforts.  For me, this is just an experiment, not my primary staple crops.  I made the original post to seek out other winter Pepo varieties to form a list of known successful/historically proven lines.  This allows myself & anyone else that's interested to have a ready list of varietals to incorporate into their mixes if they so choose.  If nothing else, you'll have unique fall decor.

Cy Cobb wrote:To answer your question of why someone would want a pepo winter squash, I can only speak for myself.  I grow both Moschata & Maxima for my winter squash, so do I NEED a Pepo winter squash?  No, I don't.  I don't really care for summer squash, but that may change over time.  For me, I like the idea of being able to have another option.  I've seen instances in my reading that speak of Native Americans using Pepo varieties cut into ribbons or spirals, then air dried.  To me that sounds like a good trail food that doesn't require refrigeration, and can be eaten while travelling much like jerky, pemmican, or other "trail" foods.  Also, I'm curious about what new flavors I might discover in a fully cured winter Pepo.

Makes sense. IIRC, this is ultimately where Carol's use of dried slices as a bread alternative came from. It was definitely piggybacking off of an indigenous practice she'd been taught, and this was probably it.

Yeah, having a line of things to incorporate into another mix or line is what I was thinking about with the stuff and project that I mentioned as well.


I was thinking that I'd prefer to make longer C. pepos, which are easily sliced and can be used as a summer or winter squash.

It could be a harder squash, and still be easy to cut when fairly ripe, because it's thinner and longer than usual types - but still just as large as rounded ones.


Now, I've been thinking of making chia / sunflower mixed grains.


So, I know what you mean by a snack. Some tribes used chia and things for nutritious snacks while on the move.

It's more commonly known that they'd made drinks out of it.



I believe that I also mentioned squash being taken and dried.


Maycocks for example, were dried. Some people say it can be used as a winter squash. It lacks flavors that most of those have.

And the usual method of storing them on the move was yeah. Drying them out.

Technically squash that can last awhile is winter squash. Used over winter.


I saw something about how C. pepo may be harder or whatever in another way than other species.


I'd probably agree with that.


Many C. pepo varieties and the like though, if you look at wild moschatas and the like.

They're almost always drier than that species.

It's sometimes difficult to find stringy members of other species as well.


The moisture content is pretty low compared to other genera. Still pretty starchy.

So it's not like you're eating cantaloupe or anything.

Cucurbita has the higher sort of starchiness or filler than other relatives.

C. pepo lacks moisture and things, higher levels or amounts of it.


Air drying other relatives in the same conditions, will be more difficult. That's because of their higher moisture levels.

By difficult, I mean you may run into mold or other issues while they're drying.

Dehydrators exist. But ideally you'd have something that doesn't need that.


Different flavors and sugars would still translate over into a dried snack.


You could mix that into a mix of chia seeds and other things, and make a chewy grain bar.

Emily Sorensen wrote:If your only beef with spaghetti squashes is the shelf life, the spaghetti squashes I grow in my garden seem to have a shelf life of over eight months.  Probably well over a year -- I still have three on a shelf that I harvested almost exactly a year ago...

Same. I have five or six in a milk-crate under one counter from last year's harvest. Each time I open one, they're fine.

Nice!  I'm happy to hear there are others who have found pepos with good storage lives, too.  

Speaking for myself, I have so far preferred pepos to maximas and moschatas very strongly.  This is what I've observed so far, in my garden:

- Pepos tend to produce their first female flower anywhere from four to six weeks after germinating.  They grow vigorously and are extremely productive and often are very drought tolerant.  They don't always have a good shelf life, but sometimes they do.  The tastiest pepos are often better than the tastiest maximas and moschatas.
- Maximas tend to grow into enormous vines with zero female flowers for at least three months.  They are huge, unproductive, and aggravatingly late to set any fruit.  Sometimes they grow enormous and take over half the garden, and then keel over and die without setting a single fruit because of heat and drought.  Exasperating divas.
- Moschatas are even worse.  They just die.

I would love to have excellent landraces of all three species, and I'm guessing it's just a question of finding the right seeds for the maximas and moschatas.  But so far, every pepo variety I've tried has been willing to grow well for me.  They just seem to be easy.  And they're either on par with the other two species or better by every other measure.  So . . . yeah, they're significantly better!

A bit of an update, but also another point of consideration I hadn't previously given enough thought to, in the context of my own pepo landrace project.

After a few months of curing, I cut into my largest home-grown pepo.  It was unwashed, had no blemishes at all, and I was very satisfied with its keeping quality.  I believe it could've gone a couple more months with no problems.  However, the skin was very hard, which is a good thing for protection, but a challenge to cut with a knife.  I ended up saving myself the risk of slipping, & started using a drill, yes a drill, to perforate the rind.  The interior was in great shape, dryer than I expected with no signs of decomposition, & the flesh was about 2 inches thick & firm.  I didn't cook this one, but I did save the seeds to grow a 3rd generation of OP pepos.  If I were to continue testing for keeping quality in the future, I think it best to simply smash them on concrete like you would a Hubbard squash, then oven roast the pieces in the same way.  I discovered that if I wanted to slice & dry the pumpkins, I'd have to do it before they hardened for long-term storage.  It sounds pretty obvious, but I'm just relaying what I've positively learned, in case anyone out there can glean something from my experience in uncharted territory.

The other orange & yellow striped pumpkins that I mentioned previously are also of a hard skinned nature, & have been cured 4-5 months now.  The color has faded a bit, and I can't speak to their interior quality at this point, but they've proven very durable.  I'll be saving those seeds as well.

Now, as I mentioned previously, there were other pepos that may have contributed pollen to some of these 3rd generation seeds I'm saving, but I won't know what I'll get until I grow them out.  (Acorn squash, yellow straight neck squash, zucchini, & sugar pie pumpkins)

I've also accumulated more genetics to add as the seasons go on.  Seeds from two large delicata squash about 12" long, seeds from two very large sweet dumpling squash, seeds from one very large mashed potato squash, and about 6 other acorn types of various sizes, colors, & flavors.  I'm still on the hunt for many others, but it's exciting to imagine where it'll go.  In my estimation, there are many more variables with pepos, even amongst accepted edible varieties.  I think the best I can hope for in the end, is a wildly diverse mix of colors, sizes, shapes, & flavors.  So long as they are all good to eat, the variety could be a good thing.

In my experience with eating an array of maxima & moschata, it's good to have the slightly different flavor profiles from one to the next so you don't get bored of the exact same flavor over & over again.  One time the soup is dark orange, the next it's bright yellow, both good in their own ways.  I've not yet eaten the very pale/white fleshed maxima's, but others have said they're delicious just the same.  Anyway, we'll see where this goes in another 10 years or so...

Okay. Today I processed the zucchini that I saved for seed, including the one I posted about previously. Much to my surprise, the flesh had an orange tinge, though mostly pale. The skin was super thick... definitely would have benefitted from using a machete or saw to get into it, but eventually was able to hack off the ends and split it in half.

Was curious about the flavor on account of the post so I cut off a piece, cubed it, and roasted it... and man! I might actually like the flavor and texture of that better than I like the flavor and texture of my "actual" winter squash. Somewhere between a (fried) zucchini and a spaghetti squash in texture, though not stringy like a spaghetti squash. Certainly not super starchy like a typical winter squash. Flavor wasn't unlike fried zucchini but much sweeter. I'm actually surprised that the flavor and texture were so good, because the larger zucchini I'd harvested off of this plant were pretty disappointing on both counts.

It's been maybe a couple months since I harvested it at this point and it didn't show any signs of going back any time soon. Not sure how long it eventually would have lasted (though, I have a couple more large ones on the counter that I haven't cracked into yet) but it seems like it would have lasted longer than most of my winter squashes based on the thickness of the skin alone.

Downside is, because of the texture of the flesh, I'm not sure that cooking it with the skin on is a great approach, and peeling it is certainly a chore. But I have plenty more to experiment with, so I'll try roasting some with the skin and and see how the final result turns out.

I'm pleasantly surprised. I fully expected this to end up in the compost or get fed to the dog after I rescued the seeds from it, but I'll definitely be eating the whole thing.

That's a great result Matthew!  I'm glad to hear of your positive experience.  

I got through all of my pepo's for the season, and their seeds are pretty well dry by now.  I am happy with the attributes they've contributed so far, and actually noted a difference between the 3 yellow/orange striped pumpkins aside from size, even though they were all from the same plant.  I kept the seeds from all 3 of these separately, but the largest of the 3 was my preferred pick due to it being the first fruit produced early on.  It also had the thickest flesh of the 3, and wasn't as stringy as the others at the same age since harvest.  I recognize this is most likely due to it simply being more mature than the others at harvest, but at one time there were 5 fruit on the compact bush-habit vine.  I'm sure if I'd only let the plant have the one fruit, it would be twice the size, but number of fruit produced was also a consideration.  We'll have to see what successive generations produce though.  Without hand pollinating, it will take some time to incorporate all of the genetics that I currently have seed for.  All the while, selecting for/against certain traits.  I think this will be a slow-moving project, but a fun one to wonder about nonetheless.  

Good luck to all of you that are experimenting with C. Pepo as Winter Squash!  If you let any of your summer squash mature for seed saving, please post your findings as Mathew did above.  I think it can only serve to help all of us that are dabbling in this project to compare what we're working with, and evaluate our expectations as we progress.