• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • John F Dean
  • Nancy Reading
  • r ranson
  • Jay Angler
  • Pearl Sutton
stewards:
  • paul wheaton
  • Devaka Cooray
  • Leigh Tate
master gardeners:
  • Timothy Norton
  • Christopher Weeks
gardeners:
  • Jeremy VanGelder
  • Matt McSpadden
  • thomas rubino

building a dead hedge; how it'll be magically (naturally) transformed into a hugelultur hedgerow

 
Posts: 221
Location: Zone 6a, Wahkiacus, WA
28
goat hugelkultur purity forest garden trees woodworking
  • Likes 19
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Here's an article I recently posted on the Windward site. You can see the original post here. Have any of you ever tried this technique? it's so simple, and easy, and effective!

Part of the joy I take from live here on the land, is looking at the resources that our land and living systems produce and finding ways we can create the valuable, functional goods and services we need to create a life in balance with the land.



As you all may know, I have a vision of Windward of being filled with multi-functional hedgerows that can also act as "living fences" to create pens, paddocks and garden spaces. Hedgerows have ancient applications in most parts of the world, and have been envisioned and implemented in a variety of ways throughout time and across cultures.

This spring I started work on a experiment to utilize some of the resources generated by the goats [branches and manure] to form barriers to pen in the goats, and hopefully to slowly become hugelkulture hedgerow.



As you may have read, we have been limbing and thinning parts of our forest for wild-fire prevention and overall forest health.

Since we (AKA human beings) have been preventing wildfires for almost a century now, there has been an unnatural accumulation of ladder fuel in most of the forest around here.

By taking out the low hanging, often dead, branches in an area, we take away the "ladder" with which a forest fire could climb into the tree canopy. It is most often canopy fires that kill trees and wreak havoc on the forest, so in this way we can ensure a healthful fire when the next time it rolls through this part of the plateau.

Also, since our land was logged approximately 100 years ago, some of our forest is "over stacked", with many trees of approximately the same age in unaturally high densities. This leads to direct competition between trees for light, water, and nutrients. Such competition stresses trees out, makes them far less productive, and much more susceptible to disease and natural predators like bark beetles.



One of the major and often unwieldy by-products of the forest thinning are piles and piles of branches. We worked out a long time ago that any branches that have leave/needles are fed to the sheep and goats, who love them! It is a great way to supplement their feed, and they seem to take great joy in stripping the branches of leaves, buds, lichens, mosses and sometimes of their young bark and cambium. That is one way we utilize animals to convert things we can't eat (like oak leaves) into thing that we can (like milk).

After the sheep and goat have their way with the branches, we can then find ways to use the de-foliated branches. In past years, we have used our chipper to create wood chips that we then use as feed stock for our biomass fuel project (learn more about that at www.biomass2methanol.org), or as animal bedding and mulch to build soil in our burgeoning food forests. These are great ways to use the branches, but sometimes we simply have too much biomass to work with in too short a period of time.

It are these sorts of practical challenges that I dream up solutions for in the Winter. One of the big things that came out of that dreaming and study was a an observation of a very basic principle, that piles of sticks in the forest accumulate lots of much and decompose into nutrient rich piles of humus that many native trees and forbs find favorable to germinate in.

I had also been studying the work of Sepp Holzer and his high alpine achievements with HugelKulture (aka large mounds of wood biomass and soil that are then planted with vegetables and trees. These types of beds utilize the water holding capacity of decayed wood, and the microclimate created by the large mounded structure and the higher soil temperatures associated with the decomposing material inside the bed.)

I had also been looking into very bare-bones agriculture in dryland areas that are more-or-less derived solely from what the land the produces. That means there are no sophisticated resources like metal fence panels, t-post, plastic what-nots, and so on. What I found was a wide range of wooden fences made out of every imaginable material, and constructed in myriad ways.




All of these things we influencing my pursuit of finding ever-more ways to meet our needs from what this land particularly provides, and in the process create low-energy input, hopefully irrigationless systems that operate passively in harmony with the flows of energy, water and nutrients of our land.

Another part of this journey was a large scale hugel kulture bed we made this spring (learn more about this hugelkulture expriment here). --Thank you to the workshop attendees who helped us finish it off!--



That process took a lot of energy all up front in order to create the beds before the beginning of the spring growing season. While it is worth the effort to set up systems which should more-or-less go on indefinitely without much maintenance, I came out of the experience with a sense that we can do better, make more beds, faster, and have them fullfilling more functions in our whole-system besides just growing food.


What I am talking about is my ultimate goal of making a broad-acre hugel kulture hedgerow systems that can act as diverse, productive, drought-proof living fences and windbreaks for animal paddock and garden spaces.




The Dead Hedge, and how it is become a living hedge.

So this spring I took down the fencing in our goats pen and started work on creating a "dead hedge" to form the eastern fenceline. The dead hedge is essentially a very large pile of branches (about 6 feet wide at the base, and 6 feet tall) that have been woven and tied together simply by orientating the branches. Sort of like a large basket, but much rougher.

For the record, the dead hedge I constructed has proven to be a sufficient barrier to keep the goats in, and other creatures (like range cattle) out. All with just a pile of sticks!

Since the goats routinely produce manured bedding, and straw bits left over from feeding, I plan to continue to incorporate the manure into the dead hedge until the whole thing is filled up. The added manure will provide the nitrogen necessary to aid the break down of the wood, and over the next year or two the dead hedge should have nice composted soil in it sufficient to start planting.

In this way the dead hedge will slowly (and with relatively little effort) become a living hugel kulture hedgerow.

I have not yet decided upon what trees, bushes, forbs and what-not will be planted in the hedge, but I know it will be a polycultural mix of perennials. I hope to plant some foul tasting plants along the bottom and inside edge of the hedge to deter the goats from eating and killing the plants. I would like to plant small, tap-rooted suckering trees and shrubs along the heights of the hedge to provide more of a barrier, and also to provide forage and mast for the goats and other animals.

One thing I find very rewarding about this sort of system is that, with a single design element, we can cover a LOT of bases, and provide:
-fencing to keep animals either in or out
-mulch trap to keep leaves and manure from falling downhill and out of the pen
-wind break to shelter the animals and lower growing plants
-forage/mast crops that can be designed for specific animals (like pigs, goats, or chickens who all like different things)
-fodder for bees (lots of support species in ecosystems provide nectar and pollen for bees)
-visual and sound barrier that creates a certain comfortable "feel" in a space.
-habitat for all manner of insect, birds, reptiles and small mammals

To me it is a compact solution that solves most of the issues I see facing us as we move ever closer to producing our own food, fuel, fiber and forage on this classic dryland forest in the rainshadow of the Cascades.

Stay tuned for more updates on how these systems evolve!
 
pollinator
Posts: 4715
Location: Zones 2-4 Wyoming and 4-5 Colorado
492
3
hugelkultur forest garden fungi books bee greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Good stuff Andrew, I may have to use some of your ideas at my place.
 
Andrew Schreiber
Posts: 221
Location: Zone 6a, Wahkiacus, WA
28
goat hugelkultur purity forest garden trees woodworking
  • Likes 18
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
after a few years, the dead hedge is still working well. We are still adding branches to it to some degree, but not very much. It is still keeping the goats in their pen, which is surprising given how much they try and escape.
 
gardener
Posts: 1871
Location: Longbranch, WA Mild wet winter dry climate change now hot summer
450
3
goat tiny house rabbit wofati chicken solar
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
My experience is that a fence the goats can see through is the one they will try to break down and get through. Especially if they see people or food on the other side. Sort of like the deer not jumping if they cand see what is on the other side. The solution for the corral fence along the driveway was to make it so they coul put there heads through and using it for a manger.
 
Posts: 23
Location: Schoharie County, NY
1
hugelkultur forest garden chicken
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Andrew Schreiber wrote:after a few years, the dead hedge is still working well. We are still adding branches to it to some degree, but not very much. It is still keeping the goats in their pen, which is surprising given how much they try and escape.



Andrew,

Could you please post pictures of what your dead hedge looks like now? Just to be able to compare it to your previous posted pictures? I'm curious as to how much it has "settled" in place, since yours is so much larger (comparatively) than mine WILL be.

Thanks again!
~Jess
 
Posts: 31
Location: Jackson, United States
1
forest garden trees chicken
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thank you so much for sharing your hugel hedge experiment! My husband and I just moved onto 8 wooded acres on a hillside a few months ago. We've added plenty of swales to the hillside garden area and they're collecting rain nicely. Just in the last month we had 2 storms back to back that each dropped about 6 inches of rain over the course of about 3 days. Now I just need to get them planted with more than onions .

Our next project is getting ready for goats. We have 3 main purposes for goats: keep down the brush for fire danger mitigation (just south of our area was part of the major wildfires in the Sierra Nevadas last year), provide us with fresh milk for us and other animals and to provide food for our dog. In addition to preparing for 4-footed livestock, there's a couple tons of dead wood all over the property....and that's just what has already either fallen or been cut by prior owners and left to rot. This needs cleared out to seed the ground with pasture seed in between the trees (mostly pine, cedar and oak). We already moved a massive wood pile that was just waiting for snakes in the summer and used it to line the access road, some of those logs were 200-300 pounds each and it was just hubby and myself - no power tools. next step readying for livestock is clearing the dead wood from the ground.

Last night, as I was looking up where to get a large burn pile permit (most isn't usable for firewood), I had the idea to imitate swales by stacking the dead wood along the contour lines of the hillsides. I figure that over time the leaves, soil and everything will build up and create a natural swale, so to speak. I decided to head here to see what information I could find and stumbled upon your post. We're new to building and farming and have yet to build a fence...and not looking forward to it! Now I'm thinking to put the dead hedge on contour and then add more hedge straight up the hillsides for the other paddock borders. We plan on rotational grazing of all our livestock with about 4-5 acres eventually put into silvopasture. The remaining 3-4 acres we'll clean up and maintain through periodic goat grazing and woodlot management practices. Food forest and wildlife fodder will be added to what we're leaving as "wild space". If this plan works, all we'll need to add will be gates from one paddock to the next.
 
Andrew Schreiber
Posts: 221
Location: Zone 6a, Wahkiacus, WA
28
goat hugelkultur purity forest garden trees woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
To Jessica,

I'll get some pictures up soon, along with some conversation about how it's working out, and what I've observed. You mentioned yours not being very big - My immediate thought is that it NEEDS to be tall, wide and dense to keep goats in/out.

To Mary,

Sounds like you all are approaching your forestry in very similar manner as we are. Since I originally posted this, I have been managing much of the slash from our forestry work (for fire prevention and tree stand density) into contour "windrows" that will long term be planted into hedgerows as the soil becomes conditioned from the decomposing wood. It is so simple, and works so well. I am baffled that it is not talked about more.

It can't be stated enough though, if you are trying to keep goats in or out with a dead hedge like did, the pile need to be large. Ours is about 10 ft wide and 7 ft tall in a pyramidal shape. Very sturdy as to resist the pushing and jumping that the goats do to it frequently.
 
Mary Leonard
Posts: 31
Location: Jackson, United States
1
forest garden trees chicken
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Andrew, I too am baffled at the way certain proven strategies are overlooked by the masses, especially in the industries that are supposedly using the "best practices" for that industry. Permaculture in general has been a huge find for me. I found it when I began delving deeply into true nutrition...which is so far from what we are taught.

Thank you for your response. While I don't think I'll be able to pile up that large a border with dead wood at this time, I'm still going to move as much dead stuff and future cuts into windrows as my husband and I can! If we ever need to cut a tree, we'll do our best to get it to fall so it lies across the hillside and then we'll pile brush and cuttings on top of it. I'm thinking we'll probably space them about 50-60 feet apart as we go up the hill.

As for the goats and other livestock...for now they'll get T-post and welded wire mesh fencing and we'll plant some vines to cover it. We'll be staking the goats out into our "wild spaces" with harnesses and dog cables to periodically keep the brush eaten down.

Now I just REALLY need to locate the top border of our property. The other borders are easy since they're along the main road which, fortunately, is two-lane and narrow without much traffic.
 
pollinator
Posts: 11853
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
1258
cat forest garden fish trees chicken fiber arts wood heat greening the desert
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
If we can encourage folks to use their brush piles in ways other than burning them, it will help in multiple ways - not the least of them allowing those of us with bad lungs a chance to breathe clean air! After it rains here everyone rushes out to set their burn piles on fire, and the valley fills up with smoke.

 
Andrew Schreiber
Posts: 221
Location: Zone 6a, Wahkiacus, WA
28
goat hugelkultur purity forest garden trees woodworking
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
attached is a pic I took yesterday.

Honestly, It does not look a whole lot different than it did when it was constructed.

There is more leaf material built up around the bottom, and it has settle some over time. More branches were added to it as well, but not for the last year.

We live in a dry climate where sticks and logs don't decompose if they are not buried in the humus of the soil. Dessication happens very quickly. So, I reckon it will be a while before this pile decomposes to the ground.

There appears to be some good soil being built in the bottom, probably conditioned enough to try and plant some hardy pioneering trees. I may do this with some seedling black locusts I have in surplus. If I do it this year I'll post for y'all to see how they do.

deadhedge1.jpg
[Thumbnail for deadhedge1.jpg]
deade hedge after several years
 
Posts: 18
4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Love the fence idea!  I'm doing something with my fire mitigation slash as well.  Attached is the link to another premies page.  https://permies.com/t/40130/Southern-Colorado-permaculture
 
Posts: 106
Location: Fairplay, Northern California
11
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I have a small property but enough trash to give this thing a try.  My problem is deer.  Although I have a fenced area right behind my house, I also am starting trees and shrubs outside the fence and everything has to be protected from those voracious devil's (and below ground, too, from gophers).  In Africa they call this a boma, right?  Well, I'm constructing a boma around two small seedlings I planted last year and, in the past, the deer have wandered around these trees at will.  We'll see if I can build something to keep them out.l
 
pollinator
Posts: 454
Location: Western Kenya
64
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
This is a fantastic idea that I never considered before. We don't have a lot of mature trees, but we are constantly cutting the "jungle" brush that grows seemingly overnight.  Like the op I usually slash it down and then feed it to the animals.  Then I am left with slender sticks.  I have always used these as firewood kindling, for outdoor cooking.  But now I have been stressing over how I will come up with fencing. I have a real problem with neighbors domestic animals destroying my property.  Do you think such a hedge could keep out pigs? Cows?  Kids?? (I am kidding about the kids, although not really.  Little thieves are a big source of loss too). I'm thinking if it keeps goats in, it should be fairly impenetrable.
 
pollinator
Posts: 454
Location: Finland, Scandinavia
353
trees
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Interesting. Thank you for following up with new pictures!
I have 10 acres. Used to be a tilled wheat field, then planted with birches 20 years ago. We cut down 3 acres of it to make space for a fruit orchard and veggie fields.
The guys who did the work let enormous amounts of branches, some of them the thickness of a leg. There are lots of deer, hogs, foxes, rabbits and this year even a wolf was seen trotting in the area. So I need fences, but the bidget is tight.
So we decided to use the braches. We basically just dragged them into a pile along the perimeter.
20220411_152629.jpg
Before. Future fruit orchard
Before. Future fruit orchard
 
Kaarina Kreus
pollinator
Posts: 454
Location: Finland, Scandinavia
353
trees
  • Likes 10
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Apart from some sweating and gallons of drinkwater, it was free. There is a swale behind the trees and I will plant some willows there to make the fence deeper. I have loooots of willow I can take cuttings from.
Actually, I think it looks really nice, much prettier than a standard chainlink fence 🙂
It will get higher, the work is still in progress.
20220427_204854.jpg
After
After
 
Kaarina Kreus
pollinator
Posts: 454
Location: Finland, Scandinavia
353
trees
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I was dragging the las of the branches to the hedge today - tomorrow they will deliver 60 fruit trees and some 200 hedge plants.
And good gracious!! As I was struggling with the buches of weeds, black grouse female run from my path, and delved into the fence ❤

Of course, I could not continue to add to the fence where her nest is, so I ended up draghing the goddammit weeds to the other end. Sweaty, but so glad to see that a dead hedge provides shelter for many animals!!
 
Posts: 45
Location: Heart of the Great Lakes in Southern Ontario
11
4
forest garden trees chicken homestead
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Of course, none of this is new--most of our ancestors did it--Africa, Asia, Europe, etc.
img_8870.jpg
[Thumbnail for img_8870.jpg]
P1110525-1024x768.jpg
[Thumbnail for P1110525-1024x768.jpg]
 
Posts: 15
Location: Roodeschool the Netherlands
4
2
kids chicken homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
If you do end up planting trees in your dead hedge, I would strongly recommend looking into the dying art of English hedge laying, where you partially chop the stem of your growee, lay it down and wait for it to grow up again. That way you're not dragging branches anymore, buy you're creating a system that can keep itself replenished (it does require some maintenance every couple of years) and alive and thriving. I for one am eager to try this at some point in my future
 
I am a man of mystery. Mostly because of this tiny ad:
100th Issue of Permaculture Magazine - now FREE for a while
https://permies.com/goodies/45/pmag
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic