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Desired building characteristics/features in a Rocket Mass Heater

 
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What are your desired/preferred design characteristics/features in a mass heater? Those that you are sure a stove would not be a good stove if they are not present?

Let me start:
Door with air control on firebox.
Firebox door with hinges
Ash grate and ash tray
Proven design combustion chamber (firebox + heat riser = combustion chamber).
When built for non-pyro nerds, combustion chamber has to be intuitive in use. For instance, discard J-Rocket.
Insulated Heat Riser.
On bed bond (not on edge) for firebox walls. On edge tend to be not resistant enough to hard use from users.
On bed bond for bell walls.
Stainless steel for smoke ducts.
If budget allows it, go for a combustion chamber + bell stove: Gymse, Danesa (Plans) (Online Course), BBR (plans), others (which ones?).
If budget doesn't allow it, the go for single wall stove: Chuncana Mejorada (Plans) (Online Course), others (which ones?)

This an incomplete list.

 
Apprentice Rocket Scientist
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Hey Pablo,
another interesting topic.
Though I think a wiki might get a bit confusing, as a lot of people are probably looking for a lot of different things in a rocket mass heater. I for example would almost say a door with hinges is sonething I definitely don't want in my RMH :D
 
Pablo Kulbaba
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Benjamin Dinkel wrote:Hey Pablo,
another interesting topic.
Though I think a wiki might get a bit confusing, as a lot of people are probably looking for a lot of different things in a rocket mass heater. I for example would almost say a door with hinges is sonething I definitely don't want in my RMH :D



True. Unwikied. Thanks!
Are you a stove builder?
 
Benjamin Dinkel
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Cool!
I’m about to become one. I’ve been apprentiicing and planning, first stoves (for costumers) are coming up in December
 
Pablo Kulbaba
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Benjamin Dinkel wrote:Cool!
I’m about to become one. I’ve been apprentiicing and planning, first stoves (for costumers) are coming up in December



Who are your teachers in this path?
What model of stoves are you specializing in?
 
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Hi Pablo;
Welcome to Permies!

I'm not sure how to respond to your list.
You have questions covering several types of stoves.

I will respond mainly to the questions relating to Batchbox stoves.
Unlike Benjamin who currently is building J-Tubes, I prefer a firebox door that hinges open.
I do make and sell lightweight Plunge doors for Batchboxes, but I consider them to be a "starter" door that would be upgraded to a hinged door at a later date.
Air control should be readily available but only used fully open or fully closed.
Peter Berg Batchbox design, with insulated riser.  
(I currently have two BBR's and one Walker riserless core up and running and I have the brand new design Shorty Core built and am about to place it in a bell.)
On Bed bricks in a core would be very slow to come up to clean burning temps.
I prefer to use on edge for the core bricks with a solid backing behind them.
Bells should be built with bricks on Bed.
I no longer use ducted mass but prefer a stratification chamber as much more forgiving to ash buildup or pipe degradation.
I do not know the other stoves you mention, but they sound like a traditional metal box stove.
 
Pablo Kulbaba
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thomas rubino wrote:Hi Pablo;
Welcome to Permies!

I'm not sure how to respond to your list.



Hi Thomas. Thanks for the welcoming. My english may be poor. I'm not a native english speaker.
The list is not intended a a list of things to be answered, but a list of preferred characteristics that have proven to result in better performance/endurance.

BBRs
I'm not building them anymore, due to the fact of smoking coming out of the door whenever you open it and there's wood burning. That's why i moved to Gymse stoves, and then to Danesa stove.

thomas rubino wrote: I do not know the other stoves you mention, but they sound like a traditional metal box stove.


Non of the listed stoves are metal stoves. All masonry.

Can you tell me more about the Shorty core? First time i hear about it.
 
thomas rubino
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Shorty is Peter's newest design.
I believe there are less than 6 currently built in Europe and mine is the first in the US.
Here are links to Peter's development and links to my core build and the airframe construction.
https://permies.com/t/234638/Development-compact-batchrocket-core
https://permies.com/t/254283/Shorty-Core-Montana-Version-burn
https://permies.com/t/254292/Airframe-Construction-Shorty-Core

I believe this core will ultimately replace Peter's traditional BBR.
 
Pablo Kulbaba
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thomas rubino wrote:Shorty is Peter's newest design.
I believe there are less than 6 currently built in Europe and mine is the first in the US.
Here are links to Peter's development and links to my core build and the airframe construction.
https://permies.com/t/234638/Development-compact-batchrocket-core
https://permies.com/t/254283/Shorty-Core-Montana-Version-burn
https://permies.com/t/254292/Airframe-Construction-Shorty-Core

I believe this core will ultimately replace Peter's traditional BBR.



NIce. I wasn't aware about this. Thanks! That short riser sure is a nice feature.
 
Benjamin Dinkel
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Pablo Kulbaba wrote:
Who are your teachers in this path?
What model of stoves are you specializing in?


I’m working with a stove builder in Catalunya, Joan Colin. https://artsambcaliu.com/qui-som/

Do you have more contacts in Spain? I’m open minded to work with whoever wants a hard working apprentice.

I haven’t specialized, but Mud’s and Paul’s ideas on bringing cost down and making reliable easy use systems available to a lot of people have me leaning towards j-tubes at the moment.

But I’m also interested in rocket powered ovens and won’t say I won’t build a batch box some time.
 
Pablo Kulbaba
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Benjamin Dinkel wrote:

Pablo Kulbaba wrote:
Who are your teachers in this path?
What model of stoves are you specializing in?


I’m working with a stove builder in Catalunya, Joan Colin. https://artsambcaliu.com/qui-som/

Do you have more contacts in Spain? I’m open minded to work with whoever wants a hard working apprentice.

I haven’t specialized, but Mud’s and Paul’s ideas on bringing cost down and making reliable easy use systems available to a lot of people have me leaning towards j-tubes at the moment.

But I’m also interested in rocket powered ovens and won’t say I won’t build a batch box some time.



Hi Benjamin. I was aware about Joan's work through Carlos Andujar's mention.
For spanish stover builders (estuferos, como nos llamamos aquí), I recommend you check on Carlos Andujar, Pablo Bernaola y Edu Markina. All of them listed in this thread:
https://permies.com/w/rmh-builders-list

Regarding design and look of stoves, i would say that if a stove is cheap but crappy looking (cutre) it's not a problem if it is self built, but you won't bee able to sell it to clients. You must find a balance between price and quality that fits the market you are in:
-Too cheap, and you are crappy (but you can still do stoves for a weekend course)
-Too expensive, and the  size of the population able to buy your services will reduce significantly (but you may get to live with 1 stove per month)

Not saying anything new here, just applying the logics of market to stove building services.
 
Benjamin Dinkel
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Hi Pablo,

thank you for the recommendation. And also thanks for the effort you put into the stove builders list. Eduardo Marquina and Pablo Bernaola never answered me when I reached out to them a while back. I haven't tried Carlos Andujar, but I've seen some of his work.

With aim to go affordable I didn't necessarily mean "cutre"-looking. Just being able to use on site material and few specialized pieces. My potential first costumer is actually super into the barrel and cob look when I showed her some pictures. And a nicely cleaned, oiled barrel without too many dents looks good to me too.

There's quite a big alternative, hippy/bohemian, off-grid population around in my area. And I think for them the natural building and a lower price are definitely a plus. I'll find out I guess.

 
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Benjamin Dinkel wrote:Hi Pablo,

thank you for the recommendation. And also thanks for the effort you put into the stove builders list. Eduardo Marquina and Pablo Bernaola never answered me when I reached out to them a while back. I haven't tried Carlos Andujar, but I've seen some of his work.

With aim to go affordable I didn't necessarily mean "cutre"-looking. Just being able to use on site material and few specialized pieces. My potential first costumer is actually super into the barrel and cob look when I showed her some pictures. And a nicely cleaned, oiled barrel without too many dents looks good to me too.

There's quite a big alternative, hippy/bohemian, off-grid population around in my area. And I think for them the natural building and a lower price are definitely a plus. I'll find out I guess.



Try contacting Carlos via his IG.
Can you tell me more about these off grid population movement in Granada? (been there in 2010, before becoming interested in permaculture and stoves). Is this a kind of neorural movement? Recuperacion de pueblos abandonados?
People able to work remotely?
 
Benjamin Dinkel
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I wouldn't call it a movement, there's just quite an ammount of people interested in permaculture and also living "off grid".
The surroundings of Orgiva have reached a critical mass of very alternative people, attracting all kinds of colorful humans often described as hippies. Often foreigners. And there are the northern europeans coming here for retirement.

The off grid part is also probably just because it's relatively easy to do here. Lots of sun, short winter. So solar hot water, PV and a small wood stove and you're set for 350 days of the year. It does get cold though, especially at night. Which is why I think smallish rockets would be a great addition to a lot of houses around here.
 
This. Exactly this. This is what my therapist has been talking about. And now with a tiny ad:
heat your home with yard waste and cardboard
https://freeheat.info
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