Mystery illness in flock

I’m looking for advice and opinions…

One of our 3 month old roosters is sick right now. Standing around by itself looking weak, cold and tired. Barely eats or drinks and is uncoordinated. This has been going on for a week or so and see to be getting worse. We just went through this with a year old yen and she continued to waste away until she literally fell over and died one night. And Im wondering if thats what happened to another young hen early this spring because I found one dead outside, but obviously not because of a predator, and she was all skin and bones. Like I didnt even cook her for the cat and dog because there was literally like no meat… like she wasted away.

None of them had any signs of injuries, mites or lice. The last one had the runs for weeks even though I was feeding her bread, yogurt, acv, black walnut tincture and electrolytes.

I did see small worms in a chicken poop a few weeks ago so just finished deworming them with Fenbendazole. Im considering giving this sick one ivermectin because it kills most worms and mites but Im wondering if this is a virus thats going through the flock…We also butchered some young roosters in the spring and one had a bunch of lumps like tumors and a really large liver. Lymphoid leucosis seems to be a possibility because that can tumors, wasting away, enlarged livers, diarrhea and weakness.

I even was going to get a necropsy done on the last one but called around and couldn’t do it for under $300 so didnt go through with it.

Most of the flock is molting now. I put electrolytes, oregano oil, black walnut tincture and ACV in their water on a loose rotating with some plain water a few days a week. They eat Nutrena All Flock and free range. Give them lots of scraps and compost stuff. If it is Lymphoid Leukosis, theres no cure or treatment. Most birds carry and spread it with no symptoms but 1-2% die. I gave that last one special treatment for 3 weeks, isolated her, hand fed her special food, brought her in and out of the coop, gave her electrolytes and she died anyway. I dont want to baby this current sick one, especially if its going to die anyway. I really dont want to kill the flock and start over for many reasons, one being I dont know if that would rid the coop and property of the virus anyway. Another reason is because I have been working towards a breed of mixed Orpingtons and Swedish Flower Chickensand now that we’re finally there, Id hate to start over. Wonder if I just accept a certain mysterious death rate and tell myself only the strong survive or what.

I did some reading and it sounds like theres tons of viruses chickens can carry and pass along without showing symptoms and without testing, you may just lose a bird here and there. That definitely sounds like what we have going on but Im wondering what you would do if it was your flock.

Can you see any lesions on the face area or legs? There is also a virus that causes lesions inside the mouth, which spoils the appetite...

Hi Brody,
I'm not sure how you would determine this, but I know bird flu has been going around here in US... caused egg prices to shoot up for a while. Maybe its that?

It sounds like you are using a whole bunch of supplements to help boost their immune system and fight off various things. This is good. Don't forget to check the environment as well. Do you have space to move them to a new area? Do they free range or get moved around at all? With the number of sick chickens I would worry about the buildup of germs in their coop or run.

William Kellogg wrote:Can you see any lesions on the face area or legs? There is also a virus that causes lesions inside the mouth, which spoils the appetite...

I haven’t noticed anything on the face or legs but I havent looked inside any of their mouths yet. Pretty sure this sick hen is going to drop dead sometime today (if I dont put her out of her misery first) and then Ill look inside her mouth.

Matt McSpadden wrote:Hi Brody,
I'm not sure how you would determine this, but I know bird flu has been going around here in US... caused egg prices to shoot up for a while. Maybe its that?

It sounds like you are using a whole bunch of supplements to help boost their immune system and fight off various things. This is good. Don't forget to check the environment as well. Do you have space to move them to a new area? Do they free range or get moved around at all? With the number of sick chickens I would worry about the buildup of germs in their coop or run.

We do have space to move them, it just adds a logistics problem. The coop i built on skids but not realistically portable without heavy machinery that we dont have. They dont fully free range the property as I dont want them shitting everywhere and getting into the gardens, but their run is very large. Maybe 1/3 of an acre or so for 19 chickens. Some of it is yard, some of it is brushy and some of it is wooded. Most of the ground is covered either by leaves or lawn, so it isn’t a muddy mess. We started out with a mobile coop moving them around every couple months but we were topped out at 8 chickens and the coop was terrible in winter. So now I built a bigger, permanent coop but have sacrificed mobility. I have thought about making a second paddock and letting them free range over there but with winter coming, I’ll probably wait until spring to try that.

They have all been dewormed twice this year and I cleaned the coop very well in the spring.

That hen didn’t move at all in almost 24 hours and barely opens her eyes. Can’t get her to eat or drink either. I dont see this turning around.

Does the coop have good ventilation? I have seen some coops that are made too well, and it only takes a few weeks for ammonia to build up and cause health problems. Just throwing out ideas.

Matt McSpadden wrote:Does the coop have good ventilation? I have seen some coops that are made too well, and it only takes a few weeks for ammonia to build up and cause health problems. Just throwing out ideas.

Its a Woods Open Air coop so it basically maximizes ventilation

I had my friend read this thread and she agrees that it's likely Lymphoid Leukosis. Yes, there is no treatment for a bird already showing symptoms, but this is how she managed the disease when she had some birds that got it, and related issues:

1. It is spread through fecal matter and carried on the feet. She cleaned up all the bedding thoroughly and then spread powdered lime (agricultural lime) everywhere they would be walking, and then put fresh bedding on top. It is quite possible that you will need to be doing this regularly at first until birds that are carrying the disease, but aren't showing symptoms, will get it out of their systems.

2. Swedish Flower Chickens came to North America in very small numbers, thus a very small gene pool, and have a reputation for poor disease resistance. She feels that your efforts of cross breeding them with Orpington's should help improve the resistance of offspring, but she would cull any bird quickly who shows signs of this disease and immediately repeat step 1. You said, "now that we’re finally there, I'd hate to start over". We're not sure you are "there" yet. I suspect you need to continue to introduce Orpington genes, particularly from hardy sources. She did suggest that Speckled Sussex might be a good addition to your breeding program, as it's so well established.

3. You mentioned deworming twice this year, and the chemical you mentioned, she felt shouldn't be used more than twice per year. Diatomaceous earth could be used more often. However, neither of those treatments will correct for the Lymphoid Leukosis. Her only suggestion there was to make sure they aren't walking on poop. Doing poop patrol daily including sprinkling a light of fresh wood chips on top and bigger cleanouts often would do more.

4. What are the measurements of the run? I'm wondering if it would be possible to subdivide the run into 3 or 4 smaller runs with "chunnels" or pop doors that lead to the different areas. Chasing poop on a third of an acre seems too hard. Not counting the coop, 300 square feet would be a good run area for 20 chickens, if you can change where they go every week or so. If it were me, I'd have more confidence in myself that I would stay on top of the outdoor poop, and have lots of time to make sure the unoccupied run areas could be well covered with fresh mulch.

Hello Brody!

When the animals are not eating enough, they are not able to keep themselves warm.  When they feel sick and weak, they cannot compete with the healthy animals.  
I would move any sick looking animals to a different place where you can give them access to a light or other source of warmth.  




Whatever is going on for them, they will have a better chance of fighting it when you get them as healthy as possible and eliminate any potential sources of poisoning.


I would put them on all organic feed and give them free choice mineral supplements.
If you are not feeding organic feed you are probably feeding some pesticide residue and industrial by-products.  
An organic health program could be fermented whole grains, mealworms you grow for them and sprouts.  
I think the best store bought feed is Scratch and Peck.   This feed is easily fermented and I think chickens get more nutrients from fermented grains.  



Try to make it so they don't have to walk in poop.
If you don't want to move that coop, you can still give them new land by adding lots of new bedding and letting them use only a portion of their pasture at a time.  Then they will be going out on new, clean pasture every few days.  Just make a smaller pen that connects to the coop.   A few days later, fence a different portion of the pasture and give them a laneway for coop access.   They will be healthier and get more out of the pasture if you let the land rest.    If you can put a sprinkler on the land over night the worms will come up and clean the pasture for you.

Jay Angler wrote:I had my friend read this thread and she agrees that it's likely Lymphoid Leukosis. Yes, there is no treatment for a bird already showing symptoms, but this is how she managed the disease when she had some birds that got it, and related issues:

1. It is spread through fecal matter and carried on the feet. She cleaned up all the bedding thoroughly and then spread powdered lime (agricultural lime) everywhere they would be walking, and then put fresh bedding on top. It is quite possible that you will need to be doing this regularly at first until birds that are carrying the disease, but aren't showing symptoms, will get it out of their systems.

2. Swedish Flower Chickens came to North America in very small numbers, thus a very small gene pool, and have a reputation for poor disease resistance. She feels that your efforts of cross breeding them with Orpington's should help improve the resistance of offspring, but she would cull any bird quickly who shows signs of this disease and immediately repeat step 1. You said, "now that we’re finally there, I'd hate to start over". We're not sure you are "there" yet. I suspect you need to continue to introduce Orpington genes, particularly from hardy sources. She did suggest that Speckled Sussex might be a good addition to your breeding program, as it's so well established.

3. You mentioned deworming twice this year, and the chemical you mentioned, she felt shouldn't be used more than twice per year. Diatomaceous earth could be used more often. However, neither of those treatments will correct for the Lymphoid Leukosis. Her only suggestion there was to make sure they aren't walking on poop. Doing poop patrol daily including sprinkling a light of fresh wood chips on top and bigger cleanouts often would do more.

4. What are the measurements of the run? I'm wondering if it would be possible to subdivide the run into 3 or 4 smaller runs with "chunnels" or pop doors that lead to the different areas. Chasing poop on a third of an acre seems too hard. Not counting the coop, 300 square feet would be a good run area for 20 chickens, if you can change where they go every week or so. If it were me, I'd have more confidence in myself that I would stay on top of the outdoor poop, and have lots of time to make sure the unoccupied run areas could be well covered with fresh mulch.

This is copy and pasted from a veterinarian website online: “ The virus can be vertically transmitted (passed directly from parent to offspring). Hens with subclinical disease usually shed virus or viral antigen into the albumen of eggs. Chickens infected at hatching shed virus their entire lives. Horizontal transmission (spread from bird to bird) can occur by the faecal-oral route but is of secondary importance to vertical transmission.“

So, I think covering poop up may help a bit, but it sounds like the birds are carriers for life and shed the virus in pretty much all ways possible. A different website says the virus sheds in skin cells as well as feces, eggs and contact. It seems to me that this flock will just have this virus circulating and the chickens will have to either live with it or die.

That is a good point about the Swedish Flowers likely being less disease resistant. I hadn’t considered that at all. Why do you think we should continue to introduce Orpingtons into the flock? I’m no breeder, but I assumed the opposite. Currently, we have 19 chickens: 1 mature Buff Orpington rooster, 1 mixed Buff/Jubilee Orpington roster, 2-3 young Swedish Flower roosters, and a bunch of Orpington hens that have genetics from 1-2 completely different lines of Buff Orpington and Jubilee Orpington. We still have a few of the original pure bred Buffs but most are mixed now. The Swedish Flowers haven’t started mating yet though so their genes are on standby.

As for deworming, ive tried a variety of natural remedies and they all seem more like preventatives than problem solvers. Ive read very mixed reviews about DE. Many “experts” say its really bad for the lungs of anything that breathes it in and that once its wet, it doesnt work to kill stuff like it does when its dry…I used Ivermectin to deworm them this spring and Fenbendazole most recently. Figured if I alternate or maybe throw a 3rd into the mix then parasite resistance will be less likely.

The run is large. Maybe 1/3 of an acre. I could divide it into subsections but from my understanding, that wouldn’t eradicate the virus since they are carriers for life and can spread it vertically as well as horizontally. But dividing the area would help with parasite load in the ground so maybe Ill try that next summer.

Samantha Lewis wrote:Hello Brody!

When the animals are not eating enough, they are not able to keep themselves warm.  When they feel sick and weak, they cannot compete with the healthy animals.  
I would move any sick looking animals to a different place where you can give them access to a light or other source of warmth.  




Whatever is going on for them, they will have a better chance of fighting it when you get them as healthy as possible and eliminate any potential sources of poisoning.


I would put them on all organic feed and give them free choice mineral supplements.
If you are not feeding organic feed you are probably feeding some pesticide residue and industrial by-products.  
An organic health program could be fermented whole grains, mealworms you grow for them and sprouts.  
I think the best store bought feed is Scratch and Peck.   This feed is easily fermented and I think chickens get more nutrients from fermented grains.  



Try to make it so they don't have to walk in poop.
If you don't want to move that coop, you can still give them new land by adding lots of new bedding and letting them use only a portion of their pasture at a time.  Then they will be going out on new, clean pasture every few days.  Just make a smaller pen that connects to the coop.   A few days later, fence a different portion of the pasture and give them a laneway for coop access.   They will be healthier and get more out of the pasture if you let the land rest.    If you can put a sprinkler on the land over night the worms will come up and clean the pasture for you.

Im not likely going to give this one a whole lot of special treatment. I spent 3 weeks babying the last sick bird and it died anyway. If this one is still standing in the same spot and refusing to eat or drink when I get off work today it will become pet food.

Organic commercial feed is almost impossible to find here and cost way too much. I like the idea of buying bulk grains, mixing myself and fermenting but as of now, i just dont have the time. Maybe this winter. But the Nutrena All Flock seems pretty healthy compared to most other non-organic commercial feeds. Its full of pre and probiotics and herbs.

Ive been trying deep bedding in the coop all summer so when it starts getting a layer of poop under the roosts (because thats where 90% of it is) I throw more bedding on top. About half of their run is yard and, if you walk around out there you will probably step on a poop. But its a large enough space where it isnt gross at all. You can easily walk to and from the coop without stepping on turds with little effort. Obviously a chicken wont care, Im just saying this so you get an idea of the cleanliness of the space. The other half is wooded so lots of leaves naturally. I used to move them around the yard with a mobile coop but they outgrew the coop and the new one isnt exactly mobile. I may try to divide it into 2-3 paddocks in the spring though to let the ground rest for a month or so in between moving them. Winter is coming soon though so Im not getting into anything like that now.

Jay Angler wrote:I had my friend read this thread and she agrees that it's likely Lymphoid Leukosis. Yes, there is no treatment for a bird already showing symptoms, but this is how she managed the disease when she had some birds that got it, and related issues:
.

The sick bird died today so I got into it. The liver seemed enlarged and had masses/tumors that seem to support the Lymphoid Leukosis diagnosis to me