Hello, permies! Over the past few days, I've been contemplating the best methods for growing bulk crops like wheat and corn on a large piece of land, around 200 acres. This could serve as food storage for a small community, perhaps a village, or for fabric crop production.
I’d love to brainstorm ideas to ensure that our approach remains organic and regenerative. One idea I had was to divide the land into 4-acre sections, each dedicated to a different crop. For example, we could have 4 acres for potatoes, 4 acres for wheat, 4 acres for linen, and so on.
Additionally, these sections could be utilized as paddocks for animals in the following year, or we could plant regenerative cover crops like hairy vetch. What do you all think?
We shouldn't rely on big arg to give us our staple foods!
Two hundred acres is nothing to shake a stick at. I personally wouldn't be able to tend that much land on my own. I feel as if there would be significant cost, logistics, and time that would be required to start organic farming at that scale from scratch.
I have found many challenges with growing/raising livestock by not appreciating the specific plot of land and the climate that it is in. A lush green paddock that gets plenty of rain might be able to sustain a higher number of cattle than a rocky scrubby paddock.
Where about would you want to have this plot? Permies, the site, has a global reach and might be able to tailor better answers if we knew.
Jessy Williams wrote:Hello, permies! Over the past few days, I've been contemplating the best methods for growing bulk crops like wheat and corn on a large piece of land, around 200 acres. This could serve as food storage for a small community, perhaps a village, or for fabric crop production.
I’d love to brainstorm ideas to ensure that our approach remains organic and regenerative. One idea I had was to divide the land into 4-acre sections, each dedicated to a different crop. For example, we could have 4 acres for potatoes, 4 acres for wheat, 4 acres for linen, and so on.
Additionally, these sections could be utilized as paddocks for animals in the following year, or we could plant regenerative cover crops like hairy vetch. What do you all think?
We shouldn't rely on big arg to give us our staple foods!
It sounds like you have an image of a totally blank canvas in mind - 200 acres of featureless land that you can do what you want with. The real world is a lot messier than that. Even if you get a whole single field of 200 acres to do with as you will, the land is highly unlikely to be totally featureless. There will be variations in altitude - even if only tiny - that will affect how water flows during rain, and so what crops grow better in which places. Soil will vary even if only in small ways, which affect things like drainage, fertility ideal crops etc...
Bottom line; there is only so much speculative planning that you can or should do without the actual land in front of you. You need to observe your land for a year to understand how it behaves, and adapt your plans to suit the location.
Moderator, Treatment Free Beekeepers group on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/treatmentfreebeekeepers/
Two hundred acres is nothing to shake a stick at. I personally wouldn't be able to tend that much land on my own. I feel as if there would be significant cost, logistics, and time that would be required to start organic farming at that scale from scratch.
I have found many challenges with growing/raising livestock by not appreciating the specific plot of land and the climate that it is in. A lush green paddock that gets plenty of rain might be able to sustain a higher number of cattle than a rocky scrubby paddock.
Where about would you want to have this plot? Permies, the site, has a global reach and might be able to tailor better answers if we knew.
Thank you! I don't actually have such a large plot of land yet; I was just speaking theoretically. I heard that our ancestors would practice slash-and-burn agriculture on fields after farming wheat, leaving them fallow for a year or so to allow animals to graze. They would then return to farm the land again 2 or 3 years later. Theoretically, this land wouldn't be tended to by an individual; rather, it would be a communal area so the community would fund raise it. Maybe sell extra?
It sounds like you have an image of a totally blank canvas in mind - 200 acres of featureless land that you can do what you want with. The real world is a lot messier than that. Even if you get a whole single field of 200 acres to do with as you will, the land is highly unlikely to be totally featureless. There will be variations in altitude - even if only tiny - that will affect how water flows during rain, and so what crops grow better in which places. Soil will vary even if only in small ways, which affect things like drainage, fertility ideal crops etc...
Bottom line; there is only so much speculative planning that you can or should do without the actual land in front of you. You need to observe your land for a year to understand how it behaves, and adapt your plans to suit the location.
Really the only thing that bothers me about permaculture is what about the big staple crops for the greater community. The cereals, the legumes how would you grow that large scale. These foods make up a lot of our calories in real life and I can't imagine living without bread especially fresh bread. That crusty, crispy, fresh bread with butter! MmmmmmmmmMMMMMmmmmmmm
What preparations will you make towards regenerative farming?
Invasive plants are Earth's way of insisting we notice her medicines. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Everyone learns what works by learning what doesn't work. Stephen Herrod Buhner
What preparations will you make towards regenerative farming?
Thank you!
Well I'm not sure I thought we could brainstorm together. The preparations I would do would be:
1. Collect soil data, water data like Micheal said map the slopes and the climate, water fall and such.
2. If its a cleared land I would wait until the grass overgrown and crimp it for next year so it could create a no till barrier.
If it was a completely forested land I would feel really guilty about it but slowly turn it into biochar and sow a mix of cover crops over it. If it was a previously tree farmed and cleared garbage piece of land I would burn the stubble
3. Would be wait until next season and then plant the crops and low laying cover crops again. Then the next year would be to collect
Have you guys ever heard of strip tilling? Supposedly it makes it so there's less weeds.
Hi Jessy - welcome to permies! What a thought provoking subject for a start....One definition of permaculture I have heard is that you replace petrochemicals with people power....Sepp Holzer might say replace with pig power !
If we are feeding a community, then let's expect that community to chip at harvest and planting time with labour as required. I'm finding that most of the time there is little to do but observe - maybe weed (or mulch) at other times as the crop is growing or the field is fallow, but timing for harvest of field crops is critical and hard work is required to cut, process and preserve the yield.
I'm with the others in that 'it depends' - however, in a thought experiment we can assume what we like so let's have an area with deep soil, and slight slopes, maybe degraded with ongoing ploughing, but with no severe mineral deficiencies or pollution.
I may be wrong, but I get the impression from this forum that North America in the main suffers from a lack of rainfall in summer for providing adequate water for crops...so my thought would be strip farming on contour to capture and hold what water or snow melt may fall. I like the no till interstrip as you have pictured there for reducing weeding and feeding the soil.
Nancy Reading wrote:Hi Jessy - welcome to permies! What a thought provoking subject for a start....One definition of permaculture I have heard is that you replace petrochemicals with people power....Sepp Holzer might say replace with pig power !
If we are feeding a community, then let's expect that community to chip at harvest and planting time with labour as required. I'm finding that most of the time there is little to do but observe - maybe weed (or mulch) at other times as the crop is growing or the field is fallow, but timing for harvest of field crops is critical and hard work is required to cut, process and preserve the yield.
I'm with the others in that 'it depends' - however, in a thought experiment we can assume what we like so let's have an area with deep soil, and slight slopes, maybe degraded with ongoing ploughing, but with no severe mineral deficiencies or pollution.
I may be wrong, but I get the impression from this forum that North America in the main suffers from a lack of rainfall in summer for providing adequate water for crops...so my thought would be strip farming on contour to capture and hold what water or snow melt may fall. I like the no till interstrip as you have pictured there for reducing weeding and feeding the soil.
Thanks! Also, Nancy, that's a pretty cool idea. I actually have never seen strip farming, and it looks so pretty! It's a solid idea.
It'll also be easier for maintenance I wonder if the inter-strip is enough to keep the water in place in a flat area. Stripception! Yes, I'm pretty sure the Midwest and the West suffer from drought sometimes. I thought of using machinery like tractors, but maybe they should be biodiesel. I was looking for a horse powered crimper, but those are only attachments for tractors, unfortunately.
A base principle of Permaculture is observation, which is dependent on the exact part of the exact piece of land. I have only a tad less than 10 acres and the differences in soil types, vegetation, moisture, sunlight etc seems to differ every 100 ft or so.
However, the more I've read about successful farmers, the more diversity is a big part of the equation. Strip planting, paddock planting, and rotational grazing are big themes that cross many ecosystems. Planting acres of monoculture has proven to be a disadvantage to the soil and the environment as a whole. In my mind, the key thing is to leave that in the past!
A base principle of Permaculture is observation, which is dependent on the exact part of the exact piece of land. I have only a tad less than 10 acres and the differences in soil types, vegetation, moisture, sunlight etc seems to differ every 100 ft or so.
However, the more I've read about successful farmers, the more diversity is a big part of the equation. Strip planting, paddock planting, and rotational grazing are big themes that cross many ecosystems. Planting acres of monoculture has proven to be a disadvantage to the soil and the environment as a whole. In my mind, the key thing is to leave that in the past!
Hmm, I haven't heard of those people yet but I will put that on my reading list. Thanks
Invasive plants are Earth's way of insisting we notice her medicines. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Everyone learns what works by learning what doesn't work. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Nancy Reading
steward and tree herder
Posts: 10687
Location: Isle of Skye, Scotland. Nearly 70 inches rain a year
Jessy Williams wrote: Thanks! Also, Nancy, that's a pretty cool idea. I actually have never seen strip farming, and it looks so pretty! It's a solid idea.
It'll also be easier for maintenance I wonder if the inter-strip is enough to keep the water in place in a flat area. Stripception!
Great picture Jessy! and look!
Mark Shepherd's New Forest Farm
Jay's suggestion of looking at Mark Shepherd's work is spot on! He has strips and swales on keylines (just off contour to capture more water into the soil) so similar to your picture!
Jessy Williams wrote: Thanks! Also, Nancy, that's a pretty cool idea. I actually have never seen strip farming, and it looks so pretty! It's a solid idea.
It'll also be easier for maintenance I wonder if the inter-strip is enough to keep the water in place in a flat area. Stripception!
Great picture Jessy! and look!
Mark Shepherd's New Forest Farm
Jay's suggestion of looking at Mark Shepherd's work is spot on! He has strips and swales on keylines (just off contour to capture more water into the soil) so similar to your picture!
.png)
7
especially fresh bread. That crusty, crispy, fresh bread with butter! MmmmmmmmmMMMMMmmmmmmm ![[Thumbnail for th-318590900.jpg]](/t/273674/a/258903/th-318590900.jpg "Filename: th-318590900.jpg
Description:")
!
![[Thumbnail for contourstrips-1447877705.jpg]](/t/273674/a/258906/contourstrips-1447877705.jpg "Filename: contourstrips-1447877705.jpg
Description:")
