Killing Grass

Bryant, and Alder, my problem IS the grass.  I have about 1/4 acre sectioned off for gardening.  Previously, cattle were grazed on all this and I can't get the pasture grass out of my garden.  The top soil looks beautiful but is lacking in life.  I can dig a hole 2' X 2' and not find a single worm.  I'm constantly fighting the hay grass.  How do I plant a garden without it taking over?

I'm pulling back the space to a more manageable size.  65yo female and I no longer have the stamina to spend all day bending or kneeling to pull weeds or grass.  I've tried mowing short and covering with wet newspaper, then a layer of Happy Frog bagged soil.  My plants take off, but then seem to succumb to the TX heat (south central TX) before or shortly after setting fruit.  So, I've planted a couple of cottonwoods, a weeping willow, and a couple dozen fruit trees hoping to give vegetable plants a little more shade from the scorching sun.

Do you have any suggestions for getting rid of the pasture grass?

Bonnie

Bonnie Kuhlman wrote:Bryant, and Alder, my problem IS the grass.  I have about 1/4 acre sectioned off for gardening.  Previously, cattle were grazed on all this and I can't get the pasture grass out of my garden.  The top soil looks beautiful but is lacking in life.  I can dig a hole 2' X 2' and not find a single worm.  I'm constantly fighting the hay grass.  How do I plant a garden without it taking over?

I'm pulling back the space to a more manageable size.  65yo female and I no longer have the stamina to spend all day bending or kneeling to pull weeds or grass.  I've tried mowing short and covering with wet newspaper, then a layer of Happy Frog bagged soil.  My plants take off, but then seem to succumb to the TX heat (south central TX) before or shortly after setting fruit.  So, I've planted a couple of cottonwoods, a weeping willow, and a couple dozen fruit trees hoping to give vegetable plants a little more shade from the scorching sun.

Do you have any suggestions for getting rid of the pasture grass?

Bonnie

Hau Bonnie.
The removal (in your case, killing the roots) of grasses is simple but time consuming since we don't want to use chemicals.
  The first method is covering the area with 2 or 3 layers of cardboard, then covering that with a thick layer (4 - 6 inches) of compost.
  The second method is to use black landscape cloth, again multiple layers works best, then covering that with the thick layer of compost. In both of these methods we are smothering and blocking sunlight in order to kill the grass root system.
Both methods take a minimum of 3 months to actually do the job.
    The fastest, safe method is to cut the sod (renting a sod cutting device so you're removing 2 inches of root containing soil) and removing it. Turning the cut sod green side down doesn't really work as well as you want it to work. Once the sod is removed you proceed with method 1. Once you have finished the root kill, lay on a wood chip layer of 6 inches so the removed soil is replenished by rotting wood and populated by the fungi that rot the wood chips. This will also bring in worms, springtails, beneficial nematodes etc. You will also benefit from the naturally occurring humid acids that will filtrate into the soil as the wood chips deteriorate.

Hope that helps you
Redhawk

Hau Bonnie.
The removal (in your case, killing the roots) of grasses is simple but time consuming since we don't want to use chemicals.
  The first method is covering the area with 2 or 3 layers of cardboard, then covering that with a thick layer (4 - 6 inches) of compost.
  The second method is to use black landscape cloth, again multiple layers works best, then covering that with the thick layer of compost. In both of these methods we are smothering and blocking sunlight in order to kill the grass root system.
Both methods take a minimum of 3 months to actually do the job.
    The fastest, safe method is to cut the sod (renting a sod cutting device so you're removing 2 inches of root containing soil) and removing it. Turning the cut sod green side down doesn't really work as well as you want it to work. Once the sod is removed you proceed with method 1. Once you have finished the root kill, lay on a wood chip layer of 6 inches so the removed soil is replenished by rotting wood and populated by the fungi that rot the wood chips. This will also bring in worms, springtails, beneficial nematodes etc. You will also benefit from the naturally occurring humid acids that will filtrate into the soil as the wood chips deteriorate.

Hope that helps you
Redhawk

I started collecting wood chips, but was hesitant to use them after being told they were bad for the soil (acidic?).  I have successfully killed the grass with heavy duty weed cloth, but it didn't take long for grass to grow back when that was removed.  I did put the weed cloth down in rows; maybe it needed to be laid over the entire area, not just rows, and I didn't follow with thick wood chips, just compost and vegetable/flower plants.  

After I kill all the grass/hay, can I expect to just cut the grass paths, or should I plan another material to keep in the paths, wood chips maybe, that will keep the grass from returning?

Thank you for your generous help.  I do love all the info you offer here, but it is a lot to weed through (no pun intended).

Bonnie

So I have clay soil and at least 6" of woods chips has done wonders. I get a bag of compost and move the wood chips to make a little hole, fill it with compost and plant into it, for herbs. For annual veggies I mix straw and wood chips at least 8-12" deep and dig the holes and fill with compost and the plants are quite happy and producing better with each passing year. As wood chips break down, we just put more on top.

If you leave any grass at all, it will always make a quick comeback. If you kill the entire square footage where you want your garden you are less likely to be continually fighting grass. I prefer to use 6 inches of wood chips for my paths, that way I'm always building the soil in the gardens.

I have consulted far to many folks who thought they could short cut my recommendations. Then they call me back because their short cuts either didn't work or the short cuts actually made the situation worse.

I'm always happy to share my knowledge, helping people achieve their growing goals is one of my passions.

Redhawk (you can always purple mooseage, I answer as fast as is possible)

Hau Suzette, you have a great methodology going there. Kudos  kola.

Suzette Thib wrote:So I have clay soil and at least 6" of woods chips has done wonders. I get a bag of compost and move the wood chips to make a little hole, fill it with compost and plant into it, for herbs. For annual veggies I mix straw and wood chips at least 8-12" deep and dig the holes and fill with compost and the plants are quite happy and producing better with each passing year. As wood chips break down, we just put more on top.

So, you're saying you dig a hole IN the chips, put compost in and plant right into that?!!  You don't have to dig down under the chips, but just make a hole in the chips and add compost, I love it!

Bonnie

Bonnie Kuhlman wrote:Hau Bonnie.
The removal (in your case, killing the roots) of grasses is simple but time consuming since we don't want to use chemicals.
  The first method is covering the area with 2 or 3 layers of cardboard, then covering that with a thick layer (4 - 6 inches) of compost.
  The second method is to use black landscape cloth, again multiple layers works best, then covering that with the thick layer of compost. In both of these methods we are smothering and blocking sunlight in order to kill the grass root system.
Both methods take a minimum of 3 months to actually do the job.
    The fastest, safe method is to cut the sod (renting a sod cutting device so you're removing 2 inches of root containing soil) and removing it. Turning the cut sod green side down doesn't really work as well as you want it to work. Once the sod is removed you proceed with method 1. Once you have finished the root kill, lay on a wood chip layer of 6 inches so the removed soil is replenished by rotting wood and populated by the fungi that rot the wood chips. This will also bring in worms, springtails, beneficial nematodes etc. You will also benefit from the naturally occurring humid acids that will filtrate into the soil as the wood chips deteriorate.

Hope that helps you
Redhawk

If I used the sod cutter, could I then use that sod on TOP of the cardboard?  Could I leave it on top until it's dead, then cover that with compost?  Just trying to figure out what to do with all that cut sod.

Yes, that is a great idea for the sod.

Redhawk

Redhawk, many thanks! I am so grateful to permies and lots of rereading of Gaia's Garden.

Bonnie, yep! I hope that you have smashing success!

Bonnie Kuhlman wrote:If I used the sod cutter, could I then use that sod on TOP of the cardboard?  Could I leave it on top until it's dead, then cover that with compost?  Just trying to figure out what to do with all that cut sod.

Know of anyone who's building a soddie?  They need a bunch!

As a possible alternative to the sod cutter, for small plots, I've used a knock-off version of the Falci Magna Grecia hoe - a mattock on one end of the head, and fork tines on the other.  To be clear, the one I have is NOT a Falci, and is much lighter duty, but I found it used at the right price - a couple of dollars.  Because it's smaller, it takes smaller bites, but between the hoe blade and the three-tined fork, I can pull up sod fairly quickly.

When pulling up sod to relay (when I was fixing drainage issues around the stone foundation of my house), I used a square nosed shovel, and cut blocks that would fit on the blade of the shovel; so, first cut the edge(s) of the strip to the width of the square nose blade, either with a spade or the square nose, then sever the strip into short pieces, just the lengths of the shovel blade.  Then, slip the square nose blade under the roots, parallel to the ground surface, to remove a block of sod.  I slid the sods onto a tarp that I'd spread out adjacent to my excavation, trying to maintain some semblance of order for the relaying operation, but for your purposes, it could just be higgledy piggledy, I guess.

I'm sure the sod cutter would be better than either of my suggestions.  There are "kick" style manual sod cutters (I think Lehman's or somebody carries them), but I've never used one of those, either.  Too thrifty, I guess, so I used what I had.  But, for cutting a lot of sod, the proper sod cutter is probably just the ticket.

I am using a thick layer of straw. A neighbor gave me two of the large round bales that had started to rot. I spread them out on the grassy areas. Works very well.

Kevin Olson wrote:

Know of anyone who's building a soddie?  They need a bunch!

As a possible alternative to the sod cutter, for small plots, I've used a knock-off version of the Falci Magna Grecia hoe - a mattock on one end of the head, and fork tines on the other.  To be clear, the one I have is NOT a Falci, and is much lighter duty, but I found it used at the right price - a couple of dollars.  Because it's smaller, it takes smaller bites, but between the hoe blade and the three-tined fork, I can pull up sod fairly quickly.

When pulling up sod to relay (when I was fixing drainage issues around the stone foundation of my house), I used a square nosed shovel, and cut blocks that would fit on the blade of the shovel; so, first cut the edge(s) of the strip to the width of the square nose blade, either with a spade or the square nose, then sever the strip into short pieces, just the lengths of the shovel blade.  Then, slip the square nose blade under the roots, parallel to the ground surface, to remove a block of sod.  I slid the sods onto a tarp that I'd spread out adjacent to my excavation, trying to maintain some semblance of order for the relaying operation, but for your purposes, it could just be higgledy piggledy, I guess.

I'm sure the sod cutter would be better than either of my suggestions.  There are "kick" style manual sod cutters (I think Lehman's or somebody carries them), but I've never used one of those, either.  Too thrifty, I guess, so I used what I had.  But, for cutting a lot of sod, the proper sod cutter is probably just the ticket.

I think I'll try the shovel method.  If it doesn't work for me, I can then rent a sod cutter.  I'm not very accurate with throwing some of those tools...Falci---hoe, long handled ax, mallet, garden hoe; I can only imagine what it would look like, lol.  Thank you for your help.

Bonnie Kuhlman wrote:I think I'll try the shovel method.  If it doesn't work for me, I can then rent a sod cutter.  I'm not very accurate with throwing some of those tools...Falci---hoe, long handled ax, mallet, garden hoe; I can only imagine what it would look like, lol.  Thank you for your help.

Falci is an old school Italian manufacturer of hand tools - everything from scythe blades to leaf rakes.  Maybe like "True Temper" on the US - ubiquitous in hardware stores.

This model is somewhat like mine, though a lot beefier, and only having two big tines instead of three smaller ones:
https://www.falcitools.com/product-detail/zappino-006-classico-otondo-denti-arr/?lang=en


Apparently, United Rentals has the manual style of kick sod cutters for rent:
https://www.unitedrentals.com/marketplace/equipment/lawn-landscape/lawn-equipment/manual-sod-cutter-12

A couple of mom and pop hardware stores local to me have a fleet of rental tools, too, but I don't recall seeing a sod cutter in there - walk-behind trenchers, tillers, brush mowers, jack hammers, cement mixers, yes, but I can't remember seeing a sod cutter.

I think if you do a web search for "kick" OR "manual" AND "sod cutter" you'll get some useful links.

But, I had a square nose shovel already, so that's what I used.  It does work, and you won't need to use your gym punch card that week!

[quote=Kevin Olson

Falci is an old school Italian manufacturer of hand tools - everything from scythe blades to leaf rakes.  Maybe like "True Temper" on the US - ubiquitous in hardware stores.

This model is somewhat like mine, though a lot beefier, and only having two big tines instead of three smaller ones:
https://www.falcitools.com/product-detail/zappino-006-classico-otondo-denti-arr/?lang=en


Apparently, United Rentals has the manual style of kick sod cutters for rent:
https://www.unitedrentals.com/marketplace/equipment/lawn-landscape/lawn-equipment/manual-sod-cutter-12

A couple of mom and pop hardware stores local to me have a fleet of rental tools, too, but I don't recall seeing a sod cutter in there - walk-behind trenchers, tillers, brush mowers, jack hammers, cement mixers, yes, but I can't remember seeing a sod cutter.

I think if you do a web search for "kick" OR "manual" AND "sod cutter" you'll get some useful links.

But, I had a square nose shovel already, so that's what I used.  It does work, and you won't need to use your gym punch card that week!

I think the kick style sod cutter would be a good option....if I can find one.  Thanks for the tips and links.

I use animals to kill the grass or other vegetation.   I fence the area and put animals in there.   I give them food and water.   I add bedding to cover the manure and I dump out the water buckets in the area to add moisture to the process.  You will end up with a thick layer of manure and bedding.

Whatever roots and plants were there will be dead from disturbance, compaction, lack of oxygen and excessive amounts of nitrogen.


A small space could be done well with rabbits or chickens.  A larger space could be done with horses or sheep.  

The animals don't have to be confined there all the time.   They can go out to pasture for the day and just come into the future garden area at night like a paddock.


Another way is to use geese or ducks.   You can fence and confine them in your future garden plot.   Give them a kiddie pool or other swimming tub.   Everyday, dump the water in their area, move the pool to a new spot and refill.  This will make an excellent muddy mess and the soft ground will allow the birds to dig into the sod and they will eat or disturb all the grass and roots.  If you want them to concentrate their efforts to a particular area, throw some whole grain down when you dump out the dirty water.   They will thoroughly destroy that spot to get all the grain out from between the roots.


If you cannot use animals, you could just soak the ground and use a pitchfork to remove the top 6-8 inches of soil.   When the ground is very wet, this is reasonably easy to do this and get most of the roots.   You can flip over the sod chunks and stack them out of the way.   They will compost a bit and break down especially if you keep them moist.

Over time, the grass roots will die and you can use this top soil.