Idle dreamer
Idle dreamer
Idle dreamer
Tyler Ludens wrote:That's a super challenging environment, Sam, and I'm thrilled to see someone posting about doing permaculture there. If you don't have it yet, I recommend growing Spineless Prickly Pear for biomass and also the pads and fruits are edible. It can be grown as a hedge which might help augment your windbreaks.
I don't recommend you try a pond in that environment, it will evaporate too quickly. If you want to grow fish or water plants, aquaponics in tanks is probably a better option. Are you installing rain harvesting earthworks like swales and basins to soak water into the soil? I imagine the rainfall there is very low but these earthworks are especially important in the desert to capture that small rain. A good resource: http://www.harvestingrainwater.com/
Nicholas Pulido wrote:Wow Sam thank you for your post on permies and details about your plans. i live in apple valley ca and this is some of the first permaculture ive come across so close to home. you dont step outside in the high desert everyday and see permaculture designed into the landscape. i hope to see more of your progress and would benefit from your knowledge. Im in my early 20s so im getting all the information i can from the people who have been doing the work for years. thank you. look forward to hearing back.
Idle dreamer
Tyler Ludens wrote:Flash floods are a great bonus if you can divert and pacify the water. We just had a big water diversion structure expanded on our place - we get massive flash flooding every few years that wipes out our driveway and peels the pavement off the road - we hope to divert 1/3 of the water with this structure. Pics here: https://permies.com/forums/posts/list/120/52613
A really tiny, protected pond like you describe might work. I would love a pond, but a recent pond-building webinar convinced me it's not worth it in my locale. I have a little garden pond with a liner, but I don't consider that a "real" pond, just a toy pond.
Nicholas Pulido wrote:well sam if you have anything you need a hand in id gladly volunteer to help the cause.
kevin stewart wrote:Check craigslist for some of the nurseries that are in the Temecula area.
Just downhill from you.
But how much do you want to invest in land that you are renting?
Sam Fel wrote:Hello all!, I've recently began renting 30 acres in barstow.
I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
Lori Ziemba wrote:
Sam Fel wrote:Hello all!, I've recently began renting 30 acres in barstow.
Hi Sam!
This is something that really interests me, as I have considered moving to that area because it is so cheap. This site has links to several native plant nurseries in your area. There's Cactusmart in Morongo Valley. Here's another site with 3 high desert nurseries. This guy is in Joshua Tree. I wrote to him, and he's a really nice guy. And of course, you must go visit Garth of Boulder Gardens in Pioneer Town. His place is fantastic.
Also, you'll be surprised at all the weird seeds and plants you can find on Ebay.
What you've done so far looks amazing! I'm really interested in following your progress. Like I said, this is a place I've considered moving, but the lack of water scares me. JT gets about 2-5 inches a year. Much less then even Tucson. Please tell me more about your well and how you dug it.
Greg McCain wrote:Hi Sam Just wanted to make a few suggestions. You might want to add Black locust trees to your guild.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du9LeeYX1o8 For your nitrogen fixers and add pomegranate as a fruit tree being it can survive the climate. I think it's admirable that you want to try to do this without irrigation, I think you would be better off with at least drip irrigation or groasis .As long as you plant trees on your swales you would still be benefiting the hydrological cycle as long as you are using less than you are infiltrating. A personal pet peeve of mine is watching permies grow gardens on their swales when it is tree roots that help get water past clay and bedrock (It's a 2 way street) not to mention shade the water from evaporation. THo I can't blame them for wanting to only dig one ditch instead of a ditch and a garden bed. In any case, Good luck
kevin stewart wrote:Seeds: if you want to try seeds this year I can send you mesquite from santa ana, juniper from sedona and russian olive from petrified forest.
I have been looking at jacaranda trees and those suckers are fast growing. I am collecting seed pods.
Get in touch for mailing if you want or I can leave a package under a rock at the arco station off the 40 next time I go.
Otherwise I will be collecting another batch this fall for next year.
Of course, the price is that you have to share your progress for all to see.
The palo verde seed pod looked familiar. So cal has lots of public drought resistant trees. I will keep an eye out.
My problem is critters eat everything. Even prickly pear is not so safe.
Several years ago I was hand digging swales and planting a variety of seeds in them. As I continued digging those big ants were carting off all the seeds they could manage.
To get away from the winds I dug a pit greenhouse. Two months ago I wrapped the hydroponic trays with chicken wire to keep out the bunnies and kangaroo rats and successI was immediate.
I used wood rafters but I will try a
pvc hoop style roof this year.(since the pit is about 5 foot deep the roof is just about 2 foot high) the cost of connectors on a hoop house is prohibitive but I think I have an (untested) idea to use none.
C Sanct wrote:I'm really glad to see a post like this. I live in the Temecula area but have been considering buying cheap acreage in Newberry Springs close to Barstow. When did you leave Temecula? When considering ideas for Newberry Springs my mind went to the Uyghur farmers of Xianjiang Northern China. They live in extreme conditions with only half an inch of rain per year, but their agricultural settlements are a pleasant sight to see amid the the surrounding wasteland. Check out the Turpan region and its agriculture for some possible ideas.
-Desert Poplar Populus euphratica grows in the area. (Could be a good choice for beautiful, fast growing, shade giving, mulch providing, windbreak)
-They depend on using ancient horizontal wells called Qanat or Kerez to gravity feed their fields with water from higher elevation groundwater. (Is your land completely flat or does it have high points?)
Some thoughts I had on working in the area:
-White Sonora Wheat as a drought tolerant landrace heritage grain from our area could be a very helpful annual species to try to bring some cash flow while perennials are establishing.
-Consider establishing desert grasses to keep some constant vegetative cover over the area.
-Bob Dixon's land imprinter seems to do an excellent job of creating the micro-topography/micro-climate needed to get grasses growing in the desert. (Why couldn't this work with wheat as well?)
-Roller crimp the annual grass/grains and plant within the mat to get a no-till widespread sheet mulch system going.
I so badly want to get farming on my own piece of land that despite the downsides, I'm very much considering your region. Maybe renting like you would be a good idea at first. Do you mind sharing your rental costs?
Hope to see updates on your exciting project man. Nice to see other posters residing/considering the area too. Maybe we will eventually become permie neighbors.
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Idle dreamer
Jesse Grimes wrote:Check out this guy for some inspiration. His Name is Garth and his place is near Joshua Tree, so similar climate as barstow. He's been doing permaculture out there for about 30 years (I think) and the place is pretty amazing. I've had the pleasure of visiting his place and it is definitely a great example of high desert permaculture, like an oasis among the boulders of the high desert.
Idle dreamer
Tyler Ludens wrote:Can you make berms and kraters to help block wind? Lots of work to make by hand. http://peacockorchard.com/2015/03/02/crater-gardens-oh-yes/
Nicholas Pulido wrote:I'd be interested to see all the progress you have made. did you take before pictures?
Jon Snow wrote: I just bought a small cabin on 5 acres in Johnson Valley, not too far from Barstow. The high desert is AWESOME!! I'm also looking to plant some native Mesquite trees. There is a nursery that sells plants and trees in Yucca Valley called Unique Garden Center. I have never been there (but will soon) all the locals say this place is the best. Search for these helpful facebook groups: Joshua Tree Permaculture and Eden Regenerative Design. Here is a pic of my shack, I just bought it 5 months ago.
Michael Bushman wrote:If you can green Barstow, you can green ANYTHING!
So, a couple of thoughts. Mimosa trees are fairly drought tolerant and have deep tap roots, they produce a LOT of biomass, feed bees like crazy and fix nitrogen. They seed prolifically so they have that going for themselves as well.
Also, since you are in Barstow, Fresno is a long drive but the there are underground gardens there that were built for a similar climate and might yield some interesting ideas
FORESTIERE Underground GARDENS
kevin stewart wrote:Seeds: if you want to try seeds this year I can send you mesquite from santa ana, juniper from sedona and russian olive from petrified forest.
I have been looking at jacaranda trees and those suckers are fast growing. I am collecting seed pods.
Get in touch for mailing if you want or I can leave a package under a rock at the arco station off the 40 next time I go.
Otherwise I will be collecting another batch this fall for next year
Of course, the price is that you have to share your progress for all to see.
The palo verde seed pod looked familiar. So cal has lots of public drought resistant trees. I will keep an eye out.
My problem is critters eat everything. Even prickly pear is not so safe.
Several years ago I was hand digging swales and planting a variety of seeds in them. As I continued digging those big ants were carting off all the seeds they could manage.
To get away from the winds I dug a pit greenhouse. Two months ago I wrapped the hydroponic trays with chicken wire to keep out the bunnies and kangaroo rats and successI was immediate.
I used wood rafters but I will try a
pvc hoop style roof this year.(since the pit is about 5 foot deep the roof is just about 2 foot high) the cost of connectors on a hoop house is prohibitive but I think I have an (untested) idea to use none.
"The rule of no realm is mine. But all worthy things that are in peril as the world now stands, these are my care. And for my part, I shall not wholly fail in my task if anything that passes through this night can still grow fairer or bear fruit and flower again in days to come. For I too am a steward. Did you not know?" Gandolf
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