• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • John F Dean
  • Timothy Norton
  • Nancy Reading
  • r ranson
  • Jay Angler
  • Pearl Sutton
stewards:
  • paul wheaton
  • Tereza Okava
  • Andrés Bernal
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
gardeners:
  • Jeremy VanGelder
  • M Ljin
  • Matt McSpadden

Need some help/feedback/ideas for this very small garden plot

 
Posts: 76
Location: Portugal
5
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi all

I'm currently revamping the entire outdoor area around my house, and decided to start with the smaller one, so this doesn't feel too overwhelming!



It's a triangular-shaped area, which faces the street. Currently, it has a small olive tree, a decorative plant that I want removed (marked with the red cross), and some hedge bushes which my dog totally wrecked.
This is facing NW (the camera is pointing towards N), so it gets a lot of sun, especially in summer. Because of this, and also because its a place we don't use that often, I was planning more of a low-maintenance kind of thing, focusing on perennials
Maybe asparagus near the side edge, taking the bushes out and replacing them with a lavender edge, and then plant a few aromatic herbs like thyme, oregano, sage, etc.
I was also planning to dig a broad vase and use it to hold water, like a very small pond, for birds and to attract dragonflies.

I also thought of planting strawberries on the edge that faces the driveway, as they will be at an ideal height to pick easily.

Other alternatives for the neighbor-facing edge could also be blueberries or grapes.

Thoughts and recommendations?
I'm in Portugal btw, so this is a Mediterranean climate.
 
steward
Posts: 17591
Location: USDA Zone 8a
4507
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
That decorative plant looks like a yucca to me:

So, what parts of the yucca are edible? Flower petals, raw or cooked though raw they usually give me a stomach ache, at best throat ache.  Try your raw blossoms carefully. Try one — ONE — petal, not only blossom, one petal and wait 20 minutes. See if you throat feels dry or bitter. If so these flowers should be cooked, I recommend boiling. The young fruits raw or cooked, but they are very bitter raw, read another throat/stomach ache. They are far better roasted until tender. Scrape out the inside and separate from the seeds. The pulp, sweetened, can be use for pies or boil dry to a paste, dry in oven as a sheet. Edible as is or mix with other food. The seeds can be roasted (375F) until dry, grind roughly, boil as a vegetable until tender. Young short flower stalks long before they blossom are also edible. Cut into sections, boil 30 minutes in plenty of water, peel. You can also peel first.



And more:

https://www.eattheweeds.com/yucca-yuca-which-is-edible-2/#:~:text=So%2C%20what%20parts%20of%20the,what%20makes%20the%20yucca%20bitter

What do you like to eat?  That is what would be best for that small space ...
 
Nuno Donato
Posts: 76
Location: Portugal
5
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Anne Miller wrote:That decorative plant looks like a yucca to me:

So, what parts of the yucca are edible? Flower petals, raw or cooked though raw they usually give me a stomach ache, at best throat ache.  Try your raw blossoms carefully. Try one — ONE — petal, not only blossom, one petal and wait 20 minutes. See if you throat feels dry or bitter. If so these flowers should be cooked, I recommend boiling. The young fruits raw or cooked, but they are very bitter raw, read another throat/stomach ache. They are far better roasted until tender. Scrape out the inside and separate from the seeds. The pulp, sweetened, can be use for pies or boil dry to a paste, dry in oven as a sheet. Edible as is or mix with other food. The seeds can be roasted (375F) until dry, grind roughly, boil as a vegetable until tender. Young short flower stalks long before they blossom are also edible. Cut into sections, boil 30 minutes in plenty of water, peel. You can also peel first.



And more:

https://www.eattheweeds.com/yucca-yuca-which-is-edible-2/#:~:text=So%2C%20what%20parts%20of%20the,what%20makes%20the%20yucca%20bitter

What do you like to eat?  That is what would be best for that small space ...



yes, I think it is, but I don't like it. Also, the leaves are very pointy and hard and really hurt (my kids have been "stung" twice when getting close to it)
 
steward and tree herder
Posts: 10975
Location: Isle of Skye, Scotland. Nearly 70 inches rain a year
5308
5
transportation dog forest garden foraging trees books food preservation woodworking wood heat rocket stoves ungarbage
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Nuno,
It is good to start with a small area (although having an overall plan for the property as a whole is also useful)
You say that despite it being adjacent to the street you don't go there very often, so it is more a zone 3 area perhaps? If the camera is facing North, then this is a South facing slope in a mediterranean climate, so I assume it is rather hot and dry in summer, a bit cooler and moister in winter. What is the soil like at the moment?
I'm very keen on function stacking - what properties do you want from the area?
You've implied - food, visuals from the road/neighbour (both in and out?), wildlife attracting/feeding/habitat, any other functions you want this area to achieve? You say that the children have been there (getting stung by the yucca!) so maybe child friendly planting or play areas? Keeping the dog out of food plantings is advisable too.
 
Nuno Donato
Posts: 76
Location: Portugal
5
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Nancy Reading wrote:Hi Nuno,
It is good to start with a small area (although having an overall plan for the property as a whole is also useful)
You say that despite it being adjacent to the street you don't go there very often, so it is more a zone 3 area perhaps? If the camera is facing North, then this is a South facing slope in a mediterranean climate, so I assume it is rather hot and dry in summer, a bit cooler and moister in winter. What is the soil like at the moment?
I'm very keen on function stacking - what properties do you want from the area?
You've implied - food, visuals from the road/neighbour (both in and out?), wildlife attracting/feeding/habitat, any other functions you want this area to achieve? You say that the children have been there (getting stung by the yucca!) so maybe child friendly planting or play areas? Keeping the dog out of food plantings is advisable too.



This area gets sun from the major part of the day, except in winter. Sun sets in NW, so in the hot summer days it does get quite a lot of sun and heat.

The dog likes to say hello to people passing by on the sidewalk, so that's why it likes to remove bushes that prevent it from having a better look at who's on the other side

I like edibles everywhere, but yeah, this area in particular is less used because it's on the opposite side of the house entry doors. So that's why I was thinking more in terms of herbs. And because the olive tree is already there, I had this idea of a "Mediterranean garden".
 
Posts: 49
Location: Belgium, alkaline clay along the Escaut river. Becoming USDA 8b.
25
forest garden foraging cooking
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Being in Portugal, on a sunny garrigue-like corner, bay leaf, fig and citrus trees also come to mind. Given it is a small plot though, two small trees might be enough.
Where do prevailing winds and rain come from ? If you plan a hedge, you would set it so it does not block the rain from your land.
Also, is the area leveled or sloping ? A little swale, rock alignment or compost trench cut downhill the trees or shrubs might help them, I would expect strawberries to be planted near a compost pit or water feature though - it might be too dry elsewhere for them.
You might throw some chickpeas  or your favorite legume in there also, among aromatic and edible perennials (sea orache in the sun, sea kale in tree shadow ? depending on what you like)
Some trees or shrubs fix nitrogen, make good hedges, withstand drought, pruning and are edible too (... but are also quite invasive and sometimes spiny ...), perhaps Eleagnus or sea buckthorn ? Depending on space and the patience you have to trim them.

Have a nice day,



 
Anne Miller
steward
Posts: 17591
Location: USDA Zone 8a
4507
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Nuno Donato wrote:Also, the leaves are very pointy and hard and really hurt (my kids have been "stung" twice when getting close to it)



Have you seen it bloom?  It is very pretty and enjoyed by animals as food.

Maybe folks learn to avoid getting close to it and I bet your kids have learned that lesson too.

We have agaita with pretty berries and prickly pear cactus that we avoid.
 
Posts: 22
Location: Quinlan, tx
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
My advice:

make a list of things you enjoy eating, which grow in your region readily.
sort them by height, low medium, tall...
sort those into "part sun/sun" and "part shade/ shade"

use some paint on the grass to mark the sunny and shady areas so you can "see" where things will be growing before you plant.

Draw that onto some paper, and then sort your plants above into the areas on your "garden map"

If this were my place, I'd make a little path down the "middle" of the triangle area with a place to sit, maybe with a small fountain, surrounded by your mini food forest.

Here in Texas, I plant  tropical fruit trees pretty close together (lime, pomegranate, loquat, barbados cherry, guava), and keep them pruned short (helps them stay warm over winter and easier to cover if needed). Around those I plant bushes like Rosemary, Sage, etc... which are perennial and I can take cuttings from them to make new plants elsewhere. These perennials also help protect the trees from cold in winter and dont block any sunlight. Below that I have strawberries and blackberries ("dew-berries" which crawl on the ground, instead of climbing up).

Use a goji or wolf berry along the street fence, perhaps, for some food for humans and birds, but thorns for security to keep people out.


Another thing that may be helpful for you is to put all the plants you want in pots, and space the pots out where you want to plant them. And then paint lines around the pots to establish your "shape" of garden.

You make the rules. There are principles you can follow, but few rules. You're the king, and this is your castle. :)
 
Oh, sure, you could do that. Or you could eat some pie. While reading this tiny ad:
montana community seeking 20 people who are gardeners or want to be gardeners
https://permies.com/t/359868/montana-community-seeking-people-gardeners
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic