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the philosophies of Yoda vs. Picard vs. Morpheus  RSS feed

 
master steward
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"Do or do not. There is no try." -- such bullshit. Trying stuff is about all we ever do here. Look at Picard and the gang on the enterprise, they are constantly weighing probabilities and trying stuff.

So maybe yoda is a bit like what Morphius says about the Oracle: she tells you stuff to nudge you onto a particular path. It doesn't mean that what she says is THE TRUTH.





 
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I think Yoda's quote must be put into context. I believe he was essentially saying, in a different way, what Henry Ford once stated: “Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

Don't timidly approach something. Come at it with confidence; that it can be done. Don't 'try' to do something; Just do it.
 
steward
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I once had an engineer-type boss who loved to say about developing technology, "Never sell anything you don't have. But if you have to, sell the very best thing you don't have."
 
steward
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Picard uses the P.I.E. method :

P - Problem / Plan : What is up and what we think we should do about it .
I - Intervention : The "Make it so" part
E - Evaluation : How well did it work ? Better write this down so we remember next time

Yoda : Wants to lead you to the inner place that already knows . Look how long he played with Luke until he "realized" who Yoda was . Come on , Mac . This isn't Double Jeopardy . The future of the Empire is at stake.

Oracle : Could have easily said "Look out for that vase" instead of "Don't worry about the vase" . Show off. Both Yoda and the oracle are being manipulative in my book . Sort of like being subjected to political campaigning .

"Failure is simply the opportunity to begin again, this time more intelligently." - Henry Ford
"There is no try " - Yoda
Not the same thing .
 
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Here is the video of the full quote. I think that it is much deeper then the shortened version.
Luke Skywalker: [finds out that his X-Wing is about to sink into the bog] Oh, no! We'll never get it out now!
Yoda: So certain, are you? Always with you, it cannot be done. Hear you nothing that I say?
Luke: Master, moving stones around is one thing, but this is... totally different!
Yoda: No! No different! Only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you have learned.
Luke: All right, I'll give it a try.
Yoda: No! Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try.
[Luke tries to use the Force to levitate his X-Wing out of the bog, but fails in his attempt.]
Luke: I can't. It's too big.
Yoda: Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship.
Luke: You want the impossible.
[Yoda uses the Force to levitate Luke's X-Wing out of the bog.]
Luke: I don't... I don't believe it!
Yoda: That is why you fail.
 
Sam Barber
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I think that what Yoda is trying to convey to Luke here is not a message of succeed or fail it is Yoda telling Luke that there are things he doesn't fully comprehend that will contribute to his success and that if Luke is not putting his whole heart into the task at hand he will not succeed, Not because it isn't impossible but because he does not know how it is possible. It is a similar problem people face when they first hear about many Permaculture techniques. They will say things like "Burying wood and planting food in it? That is the dumbest thing I have heard of!" But the problem is not with the reality of Hugelcultur being successful it is the reality of them needing to unlearn what they have learned and look at the situation through a fresh set of eyes and say I don't fully understand why this works but I am going to DO this anyways to see success! Then if they fail they can DO it again with the knowledge of what they did wrong so that they can succeed!
!
 
steward
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This came to mind.


 
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paul wheaton wrote:So maybe Yoda is a bit like what Morpheus says about the Oracle: she tells you stuff to nudge you onto a particular path. It doesn't mean that what she says is THE TRUTH.



Yoda is a CHICK?!
I learn so much here.
 
Laine MacTague
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Craig Dobbelyu wrote:


Neo tried. You can see him trying, really hard. That is exactly what he got. A try. Are you sitting at your computer reading this? TRY to stand up..... Oops, nope, you actually stood up. You DID it. TRY...

See the difference? It starts in your mind. Reeves made it pretty clear that he was only going to try. We pretty much knew the outcome before he left the ground. I suggest that if he had considered whether to DO or NOT DO the jump, and chosen to DO it, we would also have been able to tell, before he left the ground, that he would make it.

I suggest that what that chick Yoda was telling Anakin's kid was to change his attitude, because Yoda knew that all that stood between success & failure for Luke was himself. The last 2 lines of the exchange make it very clear: "I don't believe it!" "That, is why you fail."
 
steward
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Yoda was male , Yaddle was female.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Yaddle

"Yaddle, also known as "The One Below", was a renowned Jedi Master,
who went on to serve the Jedi High Council for over a century before her death in 26 BBY during a peacekeeping mission to Mawan.
A member of the same species as fellow Councilor Yoda, but about half his age,"
 
Sam Barber
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Yes that is precisly what I am trying to convey! Minus the yoda
is a chick part.


I suggest that what that chick Yoda was telling Anakin's kid was to change his attitude, because Yoda knew that all that stood between success & failure for Luke was himself. The last 2 lines of the exchange make it very clear: "I don't believe it!" "That, is why you fail."

 
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This entire thread makes me happy regardless of what philosophical construct you align with that the philosophies  are being discussed via pop culture references is sooooooooo awesome.  Star Wars, Star Trek, Matrix all in the same thread.  If we add some Blade Runner and some Highlander bits I may never leave.
 
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I could even hark back to "The Last Unicorn".  The other day my daughter was playing a song from it and brought it to my mind.  One point of that story, based on the wizards success and failures, in my mind, is that when you try to force things to go in an unnatural direction, you are fighting nature and you will probably loose or have unpredictable results.  If your working in line with what nature wants to happen, (like really observing your property), then you can succeed in directing it into a parallel path (like planting a weed you want that has the same niche as the weed you don't want).  Either way, it comes down to recognizing what really is and what really isn't, which isn't always easy, especially since we are all in the process of becoming, but we have to be true to ourselves as we do it.

Doan't You Be What You Ain't

by Edwin Milton Royle

De sunflower ain't de daisy,
And de melon ain't de rose.
Why is dey all so crazy
To be sumpin' else dat grows?
Jes' stick to the place you's planted, and do de bes' you knows,
Be de sunflower or de daisy,
Be de melon or de rose.
De song thrush ain't de robin,
And de catbird ain't de jay.
Why is dey all a-throbbin' to outdo each other's lay?
Jes' sing de song God gave you, and let your heart be gay.
Be de song thrush or de robin,
Be de catbird or de jay.

Chorus:

Doan't ye be what you ain't,
Jes' you be what you is.
Ef a man is what he isn't,
Den he isn't what he is.
Ef you's jes' a little tadpole,
Doan't you try to be de frog.
Ef you's de tail doan't you try to wag de dog.
Jes' pass de plate ef you can't exhort and preach;
Ef you's jes' a little pebble,
Doan't ye try to be de beach.
Ef a man is what he isn't, den he isn't what he am,
And as sure as I'm a-talkin' he isn't worth a——
Doan't ye be what you ain't,
Jes' you be what you is.
Ef a man is what he isn't,
Den he isn't what he is;
And as sure as I'm a-talkin',
He's gwyne to git his.
 
pollinator
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How about the Kirk philosophy?
Encounter a something new
-Sleep with it if its a woman
-Overthrow it if its a way of life
-Blow it up if its neither of the above
-Get bailed out by Spock if shit goes sideways
-Pat self on back, sail on to the next star


Way more funner than Piccards talking and adjusting of pajamas!

Now, someone should layout the Firefly philosophy
I'll start!
-Aim to misbehave...
 
Mick Fisch
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or Guardians of the Galaxy.  "What should we do?  Something good?  Something bad?  Little bit of both?  Right!  A little bit of both!"
 
pollinator
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Sorry, my nerd throttle choked out at "Yaddle."

Something closer to home for me:
IMG_0078.JPG
[Thumbnail for IMG_0078.JPG]
 
Chad Sentman
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Everybody's invited. Except this tiny ad:
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http://permaculture-design-course.com
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