Care to weigh in on the Permaculture Institute of North America's initiative to change the standards for teaching Permaculture? http://pina.permaculturenorthamerica.org/assets/eduDiploma.pdf
1.) Do you really need a minimum of 1,440 hours of additional training, spanning 10 years under the close supervision of an expert, AFTER completing a 72-hour PDC course to be an effective teacher? I believe Paul Wheaton, Geoff Lawton, and Jack Spirko all started out teaching with just a standard 72-hour PDC certificate, and they seem to do OK.
2.) Why must we meet PINA's requirement for "Documentation of how the candidate is implementing permaculture in personal life, including the design and status of the candidate's home site and livelihood, to illustrate permaculture ethics in action." Even the great Eric Toensmeier lived in an apartment when he first began teaching Permaculture. By this proposed standard, Toensmeier would be disqualified as a teacher for not showing right livelihood.
3.) Will the originators of Permaculture get a yield from PINA's initiative? Who will get the $200 fees collected for teacher applications? I could find no endorsement on the PINA site from the originators of Permaculture, David Holmgren and Bill Mollison, who set the original standard. Why do we need a different North American standard, anyway?
Jack Spirko will discuss it on The Survival Podcast on Monday afternoon, February 17, 2014. He wrote this preliminary comment on YouTube:
"To involved for a rant of 2-3 minutes, will discuss this on air Monday on TSP though. Short answer they have no authority at all. They can put out their certification and compete with it and see if anyone gives a shit. The PRI in Australia is the original and run by the founder and his hand picked successor. There is nothing to what they propose unless people care enough to chose them and their certification over Bill and Geoff's. There is no legislation of this, no law. Different certifies have different requirements. "
Please send your feedback to PINA through their survey at https://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/1530086/08a62bacf288. Podcast will be at http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/. If you miss the original podcast, please look for it in the Archives. Thanks.
Sounds like people trying to limit and control the permaculture movement. Not good.
how can they suddenly decide who can teach permaculture when they don't even own the word permaculture
they can maybe invent some new system and then set certification requirements for that, but Bill seems to me to be pretty far out ahead of them with legal protections on the word permaculture, and a pretty clear agenda on how he wanted it taught and spread.
Eh, I doubt it's that big of a deal. If you read the certification document, it's not that they're saying "WE ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO CAN USE THE WORD PERMACULTURE". That *would* be ridiculous. But that's not what they're saying.
PINA (the Permaculture Institute of North America) looks like it's a relatively new organization, but it's board is made of people who have been around a long while and have good reputations- Jude Hobbs, Penny Livingston, Peter Bane. These aren't newcomers, and I think all/most of them have direct teaching from BM and GL.
It looks like PINA is just setting up a "accreditation" program- their graduates are held to higher standards than the standard PDC graduate. There is a Tiered system where "senior teachers" have 10 years of experience, "experienced teachers" have 5 years of experience, and "new teachers" have limited experience.
They are not asserting or seeking to assert exclusive use of the word Permaculture- They're trying to create a more rigorous, detailed standard for their own graduates.
It will be interesting to hear Jack's thoughts on this, sometimes he tends to get on a rant about something and then walk back his criticism after hearing the real story.
I think it's a good idea for the community to define, strive for and certify a higher standard for those instructors who want to demonstrate mastery of their subject. Right now, the PDC student-to-teacher transition can look little better than a MLM scam. I'm all for sharing the stuff I just learned, but I have a problem with someone taking a course this week and hanging a shingle out next week as a so-called expert and instructor. And if I were a real expert, I'd be looking for ways to differentiate myself from that sector of yahoos.
jack spirko wrote: The truth really is they don't like the pragmatic approach to pemacutlure promoted by the PRI, they want to force metaphysics and politics into Permaculture.
This is basically seagulls fighting for scraps on the dock. People wanting to control the existing market. Folks like Geoff, Paul and myself are far more concerned with growing the numbers of the total market vs. fighting over control over one niche of the existing market.
Landon Sunrich wrote:I think most people with actual experience in anything have learned to be distrustful of the ones claiming experience but offering only a pretty piece of paper
Landon Sunrich wrote:Since Permaculture is a copy written term I guess someone will inevitably set the standards - but what matters is the content of the education whether accredited or not. I'd even buy into plant spirits and faeries if they were explained in a way that made sense and got results.
Done the end, the supposed problem is bad teachers. Well public education has taught us that TEACHERS SHOULD NOT BE IN CHARGE OF RATING OTHER TEACHERS. Talk about the fox managing the hen house. The students of Permaculture teachers are the best suited to rate them. Not some group of people that have decided for themselves what a standard should be and appoint themselves judge, jury and jailer over said standard.
A lot of teachers, at least more true of Americans anyway, don't want anyone else to be a teacher.....right. They think, they're a teacher, your an inferior object so they'll do anything they can to discourage you from teaching courses. It's cause they see you as competition which we don't see you as, we see you as a little bit of assistance. (laughter)
Amedean Messan wrote:
That said, its a difficult sell. Permaculture is not nearly as profitable as other professions.
paul wheaton wrote:For all permaculturalists, some people see Sepp Holzer, Joel Salatin, Mark Shepard and Ben Falk. Other people can only see the dozens of people that seem to have taken a vow of poverty.
I think that sorta comes back to: if you think you can or you think you can't, you are right.
paul wheaton wrote:Observation. Some people look at an oasis and see the desert. They conclude that no matter the effort, you still have desert.
jack spirko wrote:
Oh and Paul, we have an amazing guest on today, Byron Joel from Australia, he worked on the PRI in Australia for over a year and did a year at the PRI in New Zealand as well. Give a listen, he is also building a business and consulting practice. Lots of talk about low energy systems, no talk of low wealth systems.
Cory Collins wrote:
Has anyone else watched this video and considered that it might be corporate trolls trying to discredit permaculture? I hope so. It's too much like a Southpark parody to be real. Anyone?