Southeast Michigan Ecovillage - Please comment!

Hello Permies!

I am starting to assist people internationally to apply holistic regenerative strategies to heal the earth while improving the quality of life for all beings. My first goal is to start an ecovillage that is constructed in a way that makes it accessible and attractive to the modern world. We aren't going to accomplish anything significant by trying to change the way people are. The smarter approach is to get them to see how our holistic and regenerative models can greatly benefit them as they already are.

It seems impossible and horrifying sometimes, and I know I can't do it alone, but it's all I think about anyway so I figured that it would be fun to start talking to people on the internet about it. Maybe I'll find some people who want to accomplish this dream with me!






Here is the plan so far:

If we are going to do this, we need to do it right!

The community will consist of three parts: The food forest, the housing, and the non-profit cooperative.

On ~125 acres of land we will holistically integrate these parts into a beautiful park-like village with 100 dwellings. We will be constructing: an "apartment mansion," a tiny house cluster, and 25 single family homes. All property is owned and operated by an (ecological) community land trust.

We will work to satisfy local government regulations and concerns for public welfare such as: creating handicap accessible areas, ensuring proper sanitary measures for composting toilets, etc.
Where our ecologically regenerative strategies to improve the quality of life for our residents conflict with current regulations, we will apply for special permits to replicate favorable outcomes that people before us have proven to work.

- We know how conventional cookie-cutter subdivisions are approved, financed, and built.

- We've got natural and recycled building figured out.

- We know how to weave a food forest, park, and neighborhood together.

What we need to do now is come up with a list of things we want to change about conventional American culture, agriculture, and resource usage. When we have that list, we can make a strategic plan for how we are going to work within the system to implement positive changes that improve the quality of life for residents. This also includes proposed community by-laws.

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After we figure out what we want to do that differs from current laws, we will meet with local officials to work out details and/or compromises to get pre-approval to develop land and form valuable connections with people that have power.

Simultaneously, once we have a complete plan we can look for funding options and partnerships

We will form relationships with:
- Charitable Trusts
- Land Trusts
- Local Government
- Political Activists
- Local Businesses
- Universities and Community Colleges
- Any Party or Individual of Interest
- Green Building/Permaculture Workshop Professionals (to organize volunteer labor)

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So what do you think? Where does American society fall short? How can we change on a holistic village scale? How do we do it in a way that doesn't force people to make their lives more difficult? Any inspired comments, questions and concerns are appreciated!

Hi there!

So, I don't have any experience in this. I have considered starting something in the long-term future, but my brain always returns to certain structural problems.

1. Who is going to do the work/maintain the atmosphere? Will everyone pay into a landscaper pool and that person will manage the environment? Will everyone put in a designated share of effort? What if someone's one hour is not equal with another's? What if there's no consensus on tree pruning or where the blackberries should be cultivated and where they should be uprooted?

2. How do you maintain equal shares? Are you allowed to take only what your family needs? What happens if someone likes having parties and guests, and another is just a light eater but particularly interested in eating just the berries? What if the chickens are short on eggs? A first-come first serve model could make those with a disability unable to get any.

3. Is it sustainable into the distant future? If it works for one generation, what happens when a second generation comes in? Do they have to go to another place? Will they be allowed to stay in the same home with the original generation or will the food forest not accommodate the demand? What about that 3rd generation, or if some are lucky, 4 under one roof? Will there be a limit on occupancy?

4. Would the village break the cycle of poor resource use that has hit the planet or would everyone disappear to their 9-5 during the day 30-60 miles away doing some sort of resource sucking occupation? Would this happen but measures be taken to reduce fossil fuel use while doing it? Can the village work without the assistance of these jobs until the times change? (I'm guessing you'll still have a computer & internet bill, if nothing else)

Anyway, those are my biggest concerns with these things, but perhaps you already have the answers. BTW, I'm in the SW of Ohio working to land somewhere closer to the NE of Ohio

Good luck!

can you nail down a closer area of SE Michigan
land prices vary from $1.00 on up depending on location [starting in the abandoned part of Detroit]with the infrastructure in place
to $4,000.00 an acre and on up from there in the surrounding counties [farm land]

Mike

sounds good. I have much interests in an intentional community. Do you have any plans made? Do you already own the land? Will people be able to work for their home? I have a passion for this type of life and i would be a seasonal resident if i could join~ i am from florida originally, currently living in virginia.

Well, I'm in Virginia now, working towards moving to the Monroe, MI area. I have 200 acres in Virginia and all equipment to farm, etc. I would love to work towards a community, but it is very expensive to own a lot of acreage in SE Michigan. I will not go far from Monroe. Period. I am not staying in Virginia, but plan to sell my 46 and 160 acre plots, adjacent. I would be very excited to speak with someone about a reasonable plan for such a community. There may be Federal or state grants available: then again, there may not. With the current strange Governator, Detroit "manager" and Detroit mayor, there is craziness in Detroit. The farming areas of SE Michigan are very stable, though. Great laws regarding selling homemade food goods, supportive farmer's markets, great community college networking possible. What other communities are in Michigan right now? What is the size? gynormous buildings are difficult. large acreages are difficult. There must be a way, however. I think smaller is okay too, probably better. More manageable. I would think of it in terms of "family areas" perhaps, rather than "apartments?" Easier to build single-family and add, at first...OMG zoning!? My basic interest is in being able to have what one person cannot do alone (comprehensive garden etc,) and in being able to travel sometimes (who will water & feed while I'm gone?) Utopia I'm not so sure about right now. Verrrrrry expensive, doityourself is! I'm a realist. I have "had the farm dream," and then suddenly nobody to work/enjoy it with me. Disillusioned? You bet. But I yearn for likeminded people and to maintain my rural lifestyle, a few horses and chickens and goats, a garden... So. If it were close to Monroe, I'd have a lot to offer. Not just intellect. Let me know.

I hear you on the lonely Paradise thing. That's my husband and my goal is to move to the Cleveland area, so that we can be around like-minded people and family. I have to ask: why Monroe versus any other location?

My children and granddaughter live in Monroe, Michigan. I wish to be close enough to spend time with them, a few times a week at least. I am NOT willing to compromise on that. I can just buy my own place if there is no one else interested, or I would be happy to go with a much smaller group. Monroe or bust for me.

Goodluck!

Hi, Krystina!
I did pretty much what you did, only in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. Have a 39 acre "wilderness farm" and a full time job. One person no can do. Right now I am teaching college in Saginaw, MI and looking towards retirement. My family in in Fenton (about an hour north of Monroe, I'd guess) and I'd like to be in that area. Like you, I can just buy a small home and live alone, but I think some sort of intentional community would be better. Also, (like you ) I want to travel and sharing resources just makes so much sense. Let me know how your ideas and options progress.... Jude

I like the way you are heading, Jude. We are both drifting in the same direction: towards the same little region of the country, knowledge of and love of the outdoors, but not a lot of support (my son is a great help, but not a daily thing.) We should definitely communicate further! If I can find a place and have sharing of some pet/garden things to make flexible travel and general positive support, it would be great. More people/bigger property would be nice, but perhaps more complicated. I just want 20 acres for my little old horses and pets and gardening and peacefulness. Just north of Monroe is a nuclear power plant. That would be off limits for me. Otherwise, CLOSE is what I'm all about. I'll not make Perfect the enemy of Good Enough. I know you are loving the springtime!!! The ticks here are horrific, dozens to pick off just going to the car to get something out. UGH.

Let's continue, Krystina. Right now I am in the Saginaw area for another week or two. Then I will up at my place up North. Would you like to come and visit? I s'pose summertime is hard for you to get away...
I don't have any work scheduled for the fall so I don't know if I will be in the area or not come Sept. I'm sort of thinking it might be a good time to go volunteer at some community or other.

You skills and interests would be s good compliment to mine. I have never had animals (um... well, a cat... and a dog that ran away) nor am I am accomplished gardener. I have a pretty good set of construction and mechanical skills (don't do electricity, though) and a variety of other ways I can (sometimes) be useful: canning, sewing, that sort of thing.

I am new to this type of communication. You may have noticed! So you tell me..what is the next step for keeping in touch? Hope to hear from you.

We crossed paths. I sent you a "private message." Just got the internet myself, thanks to the Recovery Act. I am in the middle of nowhereville! Not a techie, don't spend a lot of time online, because I get lost in the coolness of it allllll.

Howdy neighbor, Noah,

I live down in Maumee area and have two sisters in Monroe. A good resourse for ya might be "The Farm" in Tennessee. That community has been going on for about 40 years or so they have some staying power. It Started out as a commune and everything was shared but things didn't always go as planned and changes were made. Another good resource is Joel Salitin from Virginia. He has created his own little fiefdom and it appears to very efficient and minimal headaches to manage. Jack Spirko from the Survival Podcast is promoting a similar type venture on a farm in West Virginia. It is called Perma-Ethos and it is getting tons of great resources from well know permaculturalists.

If I were a betting man I would doubt your local government would not approve composting toilets, might just be better off putting in some community outhouses after everything was done and hope ya don't get busted. These types of ventures in my opinion are easier done in poor countries. People are to soft and lazy here. I think the Amish have a decent system, both private and community based, people help each other out on the big stuff but your own personal life is your own, accountability there, something that there is not enough of today.

I really enjoy group projects but not sure how to take it to the next step. Seems that there are too many people that want to ride the coattails of others.

jeff

We are in Toledo, OH and about to move to Metro Detroit because of a new job. I'm very interested in your project. We will not be buying when we move. We need to get a better feel of the area first. We'll be renting for a few years while looking for 5 - 10 acres to buy and build on. However, maybe your project would be a good fit for us (and you).

An interesting idea you have here, Noah. A few years back, I was looking for something like this. I'm settled in Mid-Michigan now, but have a few post-college, like-minded friends in the Detroit area who might be interested. I've studied Ecovillages and various commune-like places in America and Canada in the 20th century, and might have some knowledge to offer. Plus, I have some hands-on experience in communal living, and more importantly, building urban permaculture gardens and food forests that are shared and cared for by the community.

Seeing as how you haven't checked in since mid-April, ... well, that's a bit concerning. I'll keep an eye on this thread, awaiting your glorious return.

Audrey Barton wrote:Seeing as how you haven't checked in since mid-April, ... well, that's a bit concerning. I'll keep an eye on this thread, awaiting your glorious return.

That's what I was thinking. Hmmmm. Nevertheless, I hope all is well with you, Noah.

Jude, Elissa and Audrey: Just checking in to let you know that my concept is not as grand as Noah’s. It doesn’t even need to be one big thing. It can be neighbors who are dedicated to being there for one another, to sharing some larger chores, vacation chores, equipment (I have it all to share), etc. Rather than five families having to get five of everything and do five of everything, more like a cooperative and less like a commune. As simple as I grow all the melons and you grow all the beans. I’ll till your garden, you start veggie seeds in your greenhouse for me. You feed horses when I need to see my parents, and we can all go riding. And you keep an eye on my place and I keep an eye on yours. You know, like in “the olden days.” Like a community, but not necessarily a commune, with rules and hierarchies.
I’m fine all living on the same property, too. EXCEPT that I know that nobody has the money for the infrastructure. And who wants multiple people on a mortgage? That is scary. That’s why the BIG THING doesn’t make sense to me. A lot of little things, adjacent or close by, are SOOO doable. BUT: when you get to a BIG PROPERTY and BIG INFRASTRUCTURE you can really get into trouble. One person doesn’t keep their fiduciary responsibilities, and everyone loses. This is REALITY. I’m not into Fantasy Island stuff. IF you could find someone with a large property with multiple dwellings who would be willing to lease, or to sell in contiguous pieces, that would be great. I might be able to afford a larger acreage, and you might only be able to afford a home on the property. Unequal is fine as long as we can all participate to the best of our abilities. I can do about 20 acres and a house and a barn, with current prices. I have EVERYTHING as far as equipment goes. Who else has something to contribute? That’s where I’m at. I might be able to find with 2 separate dwellings or possibility to add a 2nd, but that’s my financial limit.
All the Ecovillage and Commune stuff is great, but HOW is it financed? I am not willing to put myself at financial risk for people I am just meeting now. Most of the people who are soooooo excited to “join a movement” have NOTHING to offer financially, and just expect someone else to foot the bill. And that someone else to also do all the planning. And the someone else to do the same amount of labor, though they put everything they had on the line. To be “FAIR.” And the excited ones can just walk away whenever they feel it “isn’t fair,” and then where is the someone else left?
With that being said, NOW who is interested in getting together? I can only offer potentially one additional dwelling as well as my own, but I am not a charity. I will participate and share whatever I can, but I expect something in return. NOW who has SOMETHING TO OFFER?

Krystina Szabo wrote:Jude, Elissa and Audrey: Just checking in to let you know that my concept is not as grand as Noah’s. It doesn’t even need to be one big thing. It can be neighbors who are dedicated to being there for one another, to sharing some larger chores, vacation chores, equipment (I have it all to share), etc. Rather than five families having to get five of everything and do five of everything, more like a cooperative and less like a commune. As simple as I grow all the melons and you grow all the beans. I’ll till your garden, you start veggie seeds in your greenhouse for me. You feed horses when I need to see my parents, and we can all go riding. And you keep an eye on my place and I keep an eye on yours. You know, like in “the olden days.” Like a community, but not necessarily a commune, with rules and hierarchies.
I’m fine all living on the same property, too. EXCEPT that I know that nobody has the money for the infrastructure. And who wants multiple people on a mortgage? That is scary. That’s why the BIG THING doesn’t make sense to me. A lot of little things, adjacent or close by, are SOOO doable. BUT: when you get to a BIG PROPERTY and BIG INFRASTRUCTURE you can really get into trouble. One person doesn’t keep their fiduciary responsibilities, and everyone loses. This is REALITY. I’m not into Fantasy Island stuff. IF you could find someone with a large property with multiple dwellings who would be willing to lease, or to sell in contiguous pieces, that would be great. I might be able to afford a larger acreage, and you might only be able to afford a home on the property. Unequal is fine as long as we can all participate to the best of our abilities. I can do about 20 acres and a house and a barn, with current prices. I have EVERYTHING as far as equipment goes. Who else has something to contribute? That’s where I’m at. I might be able to find with 2 separate dwellings or possibility to add a 2nd, but that’s my financial limit.
All the Ecovillage and Commune stuff is great, but HOW is it financed? I am not willing to put myself at financial risk for people I am just meeting now. Most of the people who are soooooo excited to “join a movement” have NOTHING to offer financially, and just expect someone else to foot the bill. And that someone else to also do all the planning. And the someone else to do the same amount of labor, though they put everything they had on the line. To be “FAIR.” And the excited ones can just walk away whenever they feel it “isn’t fair,” and then where is the someone else left?
With that being said, NOW who is interested in getting together? I can only offer potentially one additional dwelling as well as my own, but I am not a charity. I will participate and share whatever I can, but I expect something in return. NOW who has SOMETHING TO OFFER?

Krystina, I like your ideas. And you mentioned Monroe -- that is the right area for us. We are looking at renting in Flat Rock, Woodhaven, etc. which is just a few miles north of Monroe as I'm sure that you are already aware of that. We are renting for a few years so that we are not stuck in an area that we don't end up liking. As it is, we have our current home up for sale for tens of thousands of dollars less than what we owe on our mortgage (which we have been paying on for 8 years!!!). Needless to say, I am hesitant to jump into another mortgage again without a lot of serious considerations.

Anyway, I am past the newbie stage with permaculture knowledge; I have been gardening (organically) for 8 years; I have taught bread-baking and soap-making for 4 years; I love wild edibles; we have 7 years of experience raising hens; we can butcher a chicken. We are a family of 5; we are libertarian; we unschool (homeschool) our three boys (ages 9, 7, and 4). I am 39 and hubby is 37. We are working towards a more minimalist lifestyle (less possessions but those that we have are very meaningful and/or helpful). We are heart-felt Jesus lovers but not religious; we take seriously His command to love others (treat others as we would want to be treated -- which for us means respectfully and kindly). I like what Francis of Assisi said "Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words."

Anyway, I look forward to continuing our conversation. In the meantime, you can get to know some of what I know by visiting my blog: http://crunchymamasurbanhomestead.wordpress.com/ And, if you are so inclined, you can read some of my spiritual writings at http://thecrunchymamachronicles.wordpress.com/

I have an entire plan for this. I call it the Farm Project. Looking to purchase large property up north in michigan. Fully self sustaining with one major difference. A 75ft geodesic dome can effectively keep a large area at 70 plus degrees year round.

Does anyone want to commit to doing this? Let's all get together and start a kickstart campaign. My email is thefarmproject2015@gmail.com. I see so many people on these sites talking about doing this, I am working two jobs to save and purchase my property. please if anyone is serious about this or has a large property available to be used please contact me. I have a vast amount of knowledge when it comes to communal properties as well as communal businesses. we need to start this now.

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=654240894686608&ref=bookmark

Communication can start here.

already emailed the gentleman above with the 60 acres in the thumb of Michigan. all we need is two acres for the first two years, then our project can purchase a very large acreage. we have to do this now come on everybody let's do this. who's with me?? anyone?

Noah, Mike,
Daniel (are you still living in Virginia? Come visit me, and I have 200 acres. I need help!! We can talk.),
Jude (it was wonderful speaking with you, hope life in N. Mich is great!),
Elissa, Audrey, Alexanderx4:
ET AL:
I am still in Southside Virginia, visiting Mich often. I have a man with an 18 yr old son living in a house on my 200 acres. The son cares for my animals when I need help, and that's all they do. I can travel all I want to, and even live parttime in Michigan right now. I could use help in Virginia, even if I move to Michigan. I have EVERYTHING--90 foot greenhouse with well and electric, tractors, pond, fields, woods.... Except physical help. My farm in Virginia will be impossible to sell, therefore IT IS AVAILABLE FOR FARMING. But of course nobody wants to do *that kind of work.* The other old house needs a LOT of work. SOOOOOO.....who wants to farm???

About Michigan: I have 7 horses, 2 dogs equipment for farming, etc. I haven't been able to sell my commercial property yet, which would give me the financials to buy a farm in Mich now. Therefore, still the planning stage. I am HAPPY to be a part-time Michigander (from Ann Arbor) MUST be within 20 minutes of MONROE MI. I am now willing to rent, until a sale goes through. Bring 2 horses/ponies up for the summer or full-time, go back and forth. I just don't care any more.
So WHO knows of a property near Monroe? A field with a barn? Maybe a trailer too? I'm no longer picky. To do the dream stuff, you first have to assess things, as Elissa says so well. Elissa, what's up with renting? Please let me know--I am willing to also rent, before I purchase. Anything with 2 pony capability so we can ride in Mich? I am in love with the Metroparks, and Oakwods Metropark in Flat Rock has equestrian trail. The nearby Crosswinds Marsh Preserve is also fabulous, 1000 acres of peace! (with equestrian trail!)
I need to be up there, meet with people, get to know the area, and then I can commit when I'm ready. To something with others. To something where I give free rent for help, as I'm doing now. I am open-minded, though somewhat jaded by the lack of interest of people in actually DOING anything. I was not able to put up ANY HAY last year--on like 50 acres--because I needed 2 strong people to help. I would have paid them, split profits, or even had someone else bale & take all profits, just to groom my pastures. BUT NOOOOOOO. This is reality.
Geodome? Here I am. Great geodome location. Even if I paid for materials, NO ONE would be there to cooperatively build the thing. No one will use this farm. I can't even pay people a bit or provide materials and split profits. (I do not have the money to have full-time *employees*.) Kickstart campaign? I already own the property, and I am willing. So Alexander doesn't need to BUY property. How much is a geodome? I dare you to follow through.
Virginia: 200 acres available to farm. A paradise in the rough. I don't have to sell 160 acres of it to move to Mich, so it is available permanently.
Michigan: I am trying to find a place there to begin spending more time with my children, to eventually transition. What is up with you, Elissa? If there is a property available for 2+ horses and 1 person who needs just a studio apartment, in addition to your own living needs, I would be happy to reduce your part of the rent for you to keep an eye on things when I'm in Virginia.
Any REAL ideas? Any REAL proposals? Elissa? Alexander? Yoo-Hoo.

your farm in Virginia sounds pretty impressive! oh do I wish it was here in Michigan lol. I would be interested in looking for a property with a barn or stalls and maybe even a fenced in area. I have cared for horses in the past I think we could really work well together here me getting the property for my project and you having a place or a farm here in Michigan. if you are waiting on the sale of a commercial property I am very involved in the Michigan real estate market, I was unsure whether the property you were selling is in Michigan or if you were referencing the farm in Virginia. either way I would love to collaborate our efforts here. my passion lies in the study of medical cannabis. that is the only reason why I would not pick up and move to Virginia right now. I need to stay here in Michigan because I believe this is a pivotal place in the future medical cannabis market. I know that is a little taboo. I am NOT some burned out hippie, I prefer Rae cannabis that doesn't have any psychoactive effects but greatly helps the body. feel free to contact me at thefarmproject2015@gmail.com. I really think we should talk and communicate about the possible options we could explore together.

Krystina - I am in Michigan currently, but your Virginia property sounds like a great opportunity. I am strong, healthy, and very willing to work. However, I have no experience in agriculture outside of small scale gardening. I have some experience with heavy machinery and I'm smart and a quick learner, very ready to help and do whatever is necessary and learn whatever I need to know.

Alexander - I sent you a PM, I'm interested in getting involved.

Quinn Please email me at thefarmproject2015@gmail.com. I never got the pm.

Email sent.

Just responded. if you would like to be on our project email list please email me at thefarmproject2015@gmail.com

Now I understand, Alexander. Good for you. I have family in Michigan with a medical card. Although not interested in cannabis personally, I am a great believer in decriminalization and its medicinal properties. The regulatory environment in Michigan is fluid right now, with personal ability to grow for patients, as well as to grow for dispensaries, from what I understand. Ah, Ann Arbor. Perhaps someday Virginia will become enlightened, or there will be a Federal end to this "war on drugs." VOTE, people. What will happen in 2016, though??

Why the obsession with geodomes and expensive infrastructure? It doesn't take that much. I've got a 90-foot long greenhouse mounted on 4-foot sides. Nobody has ever even used it. Dedicated well, never used. Electric run to it, never used. UGH.

Who are you, Quinn? Where are you? Why is it so easy for you to move? What experience with heavy machinery? What do you expect to get out of farming? Hmmmm. Tell me more. The weather is warmer, and everything here is green. There's hay, livestock, crops, logging, plenty of ways to make money with some modicum of cooperative effort.

Where is Elissa? You sound like a wonderful family. I'm ready to go. To split everything between Michigan and Virginia farming.

A geodesic greenhouse is apart of our core mission. Everything is planned to the penny. A 65ft geodesic greenhouse will give us Summer year round with teperature maintained in the 72-74 degrees. That construction will cost just over 11k. With a phase 1 total cost being very reasonable.

Hello,

My fiance (soon wife) are living full time in a tiny home in north Oakland county. We have a small bio-intensive farm, greenhouse, electric fencing and all sorts of garden supplies and knowledge.

I am 26, I built our tiny home on wheels last summer, it is heated with wood, instant hot water, compost toilet. Self contained for the most part though not totally off grid.

I am leasing the land right now, the landowner lives on site and has some animals. In a perfect world I would not be surrounded by multi-million dollar homes and estates worried daily whether one of them will complain about us living in a tiny home in such a fancy area.

We are searching for a new location to move our farm to and continue this. I want to stay in the area and Monroe is not out of the question for me. I am a jobsite manager in a family business and want to stay in town for work.

I am not living on fantasy island. I am a realist. What I have is paid for, I am living debt free. I do not bring along any baggage.

I am serious and ready to act on this. The thinking and wishing stages are over, I am already living the life, just need a new place to live it.

Thank you.

just checking back in
we moved from the port huron area to Keweenaw county 5 years ago
the area you are talking about [monroe]is a nice area to get started with your project
just be careful of farm land,most bought the mis information on ''round up''and the land is contaminated
look for retired farm land and it needs to be certified clean [soil samples]
I guess my in put will be helping you out on line with free advise because we are 12+ hrs north of there

Mike

Anyone still want to do this? I have 46 potential properties. Checking them all out this week. I have 20k plus 30k worth of supplies.

Hello, is this real?
My wife and I are extremely depressed and fed up with this world. We want to leave everything behind and go live in the forest where we belong. We moved up to Michigan in April after being homeless in Florida. We have no friends, no family, one dog, and two cats. Please if this is real, tell me how we can move in. I'm all for building my own home and helping the village as much as possible. I love the idea of unity in a community but I don't have any money. I'm behind on bills and I plan on moving into a commune or meeting my maker. 2020 is my tipping point.
My email is weissjo1999@gmail.com
Thank you