Does anyone know about piano wire?

I want to make something like this, with a few variations and tricks I have in mind, and from everything I have read, piano wire is used for making small, flexible springs.  What size/diameter/gauge should I buy.




https://www.ebay.com/itm/376240227543?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110013%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIMRXI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20211130130301%26meid%3D7665d4283bd44de6a47533ca5522c4f0%26pid%3D101468%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D167698542371%26itm%3D376240227543%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D3650466%26algv%3DSimRXIVINativeV1WithMMV3&_trksid=p3650466.c101468.m3476&itmprp=cksum%3A3762402275437665d4283bd44de6a47533ca5522c4f0%7Cenc%3AAQAKAAABAD%252Bly%252Fnvtgt3Zlasmr9es7xLnVfM8LSbzrnFFtZSmwPvEEaU6t27dcrbqOeHG%252BhuAxEcACumoyZfqZWHTNAPVwoMeA3s1qnFroENQB9kP%252B17WPkTTK23xvFoxxWQlGIwtJZKxYU0OHR%252FweIsjpDUvUGHlBcJGQBbuEiP2XPxRfZ6UaAEhHWVsFyzwY4boemmDauc6G874PlcWPSpcn1oN25VfG7g9ADjMk%252FamCWTQc9lF%252BV--CaY5aAh0zk7aFxWRSrodC9ODDbm4ZuXcRzLxetzVJxdGvUS9uhQFN%252Fxb79Duma7rBeusGzF%252BxrPmJP%252BMiE%252FOXS8CoTCd%252BnOUhl5Z4k%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A3650466&itmmeta=01K3PBJA0WEGYH3H28WA46FH3J

We make control cable for older car and truck heater controls, small engine cables all the time. If you can imagine the diameter of what that would be it's about.055 of an inch. Amazon for under 20.00 for a 1 pound roll. I have used smaller diameter piano wire for snares.

Robert Ray wrote:We make control cable for older car and truck heater controls, small engine cables all the time. If you can imagine the diameter of what that would be it's about.055 of an inch. Amazon for under 20.00 for a 1 pound roll. I have used smaller diameter piano wire for snares.

Excellent - thanks!

Once you get to the bending part, Orthodontic pliers are great.

Be aware that piano wire is carbon steel.  It has very high tensile strength (400ksi or so) due to the wire drawing process working out the lattice dislocations (imperfections, basically), but it is carbon steel.  So, it will corrode, given the opportunity.  Oiling/tinning before exposure to water and drying afterward may help.

We use music wire at work for high strength electrical jumper wires and as a support or armature for lower resistance conductors.  We also use beryllium copper wire - kind of covers both bases at once; not as strong as music wire, but a better conductor.  Some of our stocked wires are as fine as 0.010" diameter.

For small diameter wire (mending my wife's jewelry), I have used jump ring pliers from the craft section of a big box store.  But, for sturdier wire, the orthodontic pliers would be a better match.  There are also small wire benders available which can be clamped in a bench vise, with dowel pins and whatnot, around which the wire can be bent.  May be worth a look, too.  Hobby shops which cater to scale modelers and model railroad types are likely to have helpful tools for your project, or at least you can see what to duplicate DIY.

Kevin Olson wrote:Be aware that piano wire is carbon steel.  It has very high tensile strength (400ksi or so) due to the wire drawing process working out the lattice dislocations (imperfections, basically), but it is carbon steel.  So, it will corrode, given the opportunity.  Oiling/tinning before exposure to water and drying afterward may help.

We use music wire at work for high strength electrical jumper wires and as a support or armature for lower resistance conductors.  We also use beryllium copper wire - kind of covers both bases at once; not as strong as music wire, but a better conductor.  Some of our stocked wires are as fine as 0.010" diameter.

For small diameter wire (mending my wife's jewelry), I have used jump ring pliers from the craft section of a big box store.  But, for sturdier wire, the orthodontic pliers would be a better match.  There are also small wire benders available which can be clamped in a bench vise, with dowel pins and whatnot, around which the wire can be bent.  May be worth a look, too.  Hobby shops which cater to scale modelers and model railroad types are likely to have helpful tools for your project, or at least you can see what to duplicate DIY.

Great info - THANKS!

Are you going to make a how to video? Pretty please?

Judson -

Here's a homemade wire bending setup, some version of which may do what you need:

His use of shanks of worn-out drill bits for the pins is very thrifty.  A bag of 100 dowel pins from McMaster Carr will be pretty reasonable, though, and you'd have half a lifetime of spares.  For production work (making a lot of one thing), the time invested in a jig like this might be well spent.  If you only planned to make one or two of any particular design, the little wire bending jigs blocks are a more general tool, suitable for many different operations.  These wire bending jigs are pretty inexpensive (I just looked - about $10 from Grizzly, $12-ish from MicroMark, though there are many sources), but the music wire may be a little hard on them.  Even the drill shanks were taking a beating from the music wire in the homemade one linked above.

There are also professional grade "universal" wire and strip benders for light duty work like your project, miniature versions of the full size thing, but they are generally priced nearer $100.  Here's one example (there are others):
https://www.kakaindustrial.com/products/kaka-industrial-mub-1-mini-universal-metal-bender

I personally don't have any projects in the queue at the moment that would justify that kind of cash outlay, but for the right kind of job, it might be a bargain price.

With a bit of skill and patience, I have no doubts the aforementioned pliers will suffice.

Kevin

Kevin Olson wrote:Judson -

Here's a homemade wire bending setup, some version of which may do what you need:

His use of shanks of worn-out drill bits for the pins is very thrifty.  A bag of 100 dowel pins from McMaster Carr will be pretty reasonable, though, and you'd have half a lifetime of spares.  For production work (making a lot of one thing), the time invested in a jig like this might be well spent.  If you only planned to make one or two of any particular design, the little wire bending jigs blocks are a more general tool, suitable for many different operations.  These wire bending jigs are pretty inexpensive (I just looked - about $10 from Grizzly, $12-ish from MicroMark, though there are many sources), but the music wire may be a little hard on them.  Even the drill shanks were taking a beating from the music wire in the homemade one linked above.

There are also professional grade "universal" wire and strip benders for light duty work like your project, miniature versions of the full size thing, but they are generally priced nearer $100.  Here's one example (there are others):
https://www.kakaindustrial.com/products/kaka-industrial-mub-1-mini-universal-metal-bender

I personally don't have any projects in the queue at the moment that would justify that kind of cash outlay, but for the right kind of job, it might be a bargain price.

With a bit of skill and patience, I have no doubts the aforementioned pliers will suffice.

Kevin

Awesome - THANKS!

Joylynn Hardesty wrote:Are you going to make a how to video? Pretty please?

I might, but I think we have several folks here who are already experts!

Here is a video of a tool that you can make yourself that might help you.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c24PlSXnhnk

would thin stainless steel cable be a better answer for this purpose as it would rust way less?  For use in a remote control stove pipe damper I got something like a 350 foot roll for $21 a few years ago off amazon. (1/16"?)  It does cable loops nicely braiding it back into itself.  working load on the one I got was 105 lbs and breaking something like 300 or 400 lbs.

C. Letellier wrote:would thin stainless steel cable be a better answer for this purpose as it would rust way less?  For use in a remote control stove pipe damper I got something like a 350 foot roll for $21 a few years ago off amazon. (1/16"?)  It does cable loops nicely braiding it back into itself.  working load on the one I got was 105 lbs and breaking something like 300 or 400 lbs.

Probably not, because I need a strong spring to set the hook. But, that is a great suggestion for some of the mods I'm considering!

Judson Carroll wrote:

C. Letellier wrote:would thin stainless steel cable be a better answer for this purpose as it would rust way less?  For use in a remote control stove pipe damper I got something like a 350 foot roll for $21 a few years ago off amazon. (1/16"?)  It does cable loops nicely braiding it back into itself.  working load on the one I got was 105 lbs and breaking something like 300 or 400 lbs.

Probably not, because I need a strong spring to set the hook. But, that is a great suggestion for some of the mods I'm considering!

If you just need the spring you might look at high tensile fence wire.  I have several fairly tough spring mechanisms built out of it.  Would be way cheaper than piano wire and probably locally available.

Judson Carroll wrote:

C. Letellier wrote:would thin stainless steel cable be a better answer for this purpose as it would rust way less?  For use in a remote control stove pipe damper I got something like a 350 foot roll for $21 a few years ago off amazon. (1/16"?)  It does cable loops nicely braiding it back into itself.  working load on the one I got was 105 lbs and breaking something like 300 or 400 lbs.

Probably not, because I need a strong spring to set the hook. But, that is a great suggestion for some of the mods I'm considering!

I appreciate knowing carbon steel will work for things like this. My husband is extremely allergic to chromium, too the point that he has all bamboo or plastic flatwear, no commercially produced garment leather, and no stainless steel anything. We've made tons of hardware changes - and this will make it easier, going forward, because springs are hard to buy.

Rust is probably not going to be an issue, but with animal traps some just use regular paraffin wax, acrylic floor wax to prevent rust this could be a solution for your triggers.  Fishhooks are made from high carbon steel after all.
 Stainless would probably work but for springiness I think piano wire would be my choice.