Observations on creating silvopasture

We’ve been working on establishing silvopasture for many years.  We’ve planted trees in what was previously open pasture and thinned trees in what was previously woodland.  We have found it is much easier to add trees to pasture than it is to remove trees from woodland (absent heavy equipment). Woodland requires the removal of a tremendous amount of material to allow for light penetration and grass growth.  We have found 75% tree removal to be a good ball park figure.  On the other hand, trees can fairly easily be added to pasture at the appropriate spacing, and fast growing species such as black locust start adding meaningful shade in 3-5 years.  

What has been your experience?

I have not done silvopasture though it sounds to me like you have maybe trying too hard?

A couple of thread to help others understand:

https://permies.com/t/25275/woodland/Silvopasture

https://permies.com/t/134614/Silvopasture-Newbie

I can see why you would say it's easier to add than to take away.
I work with silvopasture in the professional sphere and i think often people have specific trees they want, and it's also easier to add specific species than to remove others. I've seen great setups with sheep and persimmons, for example (some in old orchards, where only a few trees needed to be removed), and then lines of timber trees, fruit trees, and then pasture where it had previously been a timber plantation and they cut/grubbed out lines of smaller trees to provide the pasture areas. But not everyone has a fleet of industrial logging/grubbing equipment at their disposal!

The point about thinning woodland being underestimated is real. I've seen people start with 'just remove the worst trees' and end up with years of work. Adding trees to pasture does let you be deliberate about spacing and species from the start which makes a big difference later. The persimmon and sheep combination Tereza mentions is one I keep coming back to — persimmons are relatively low-maintenance once established and the livestock don't seem to touch them the way they do with some other species.

I've never had an issue with wood removal.  I just drive a 4X4 into the wooded area, buck up the fallen trees for firewood in situ, and drive back out.  I supply ALL the year's firewood needs from winter storm blow-downs.  

If you want to drag whole logs out of an area, one thing that would help is the old hood of a car with chains attached to it.  Just dump the top end of the logs onto the hood, chain the hood to the back of your vehicle, and then drag it back to your operational location.  The scarifiction of the ground from the other ends of the logs dragging on the ground is usually conducive to the fresh growth of wind-blown tree seedlings.

I've attempted planting Black Locust on my own property, and the animals browsed it straight to the ground.  None survived.  Only orchard trees fully encapuslated in steel chicken-wire can survive.

What about girdling trees or leaving wood on the ground to rot? This can provide a fungal harvest as well as improving soil, and there wouldn’t be the need for heavy machinery that destroys the soils. Native Americans and very early settlers would girdle trees, either with an ax or by burning around the bark, as a way of clearing an area for planting.

I could see falling limbs being a problem. But goats in particular would probably like the fallen trunks, no?

Can livestock eat mushrooms? Surely pigs would if you have them?

Thanks for including this thread in the daily-ish.

I have been trying to get some shade and wind breaks that weaken and provide some shelter from the wind.

I have planted choke and nanking cherries, new mexico and black locusts, white mulberries, hazelnuts, elderberries blackberries, and box elders.  (Last winter I learned of ice nucleating bacteria, and box elders supporting largest populations of them…. Which promote rain)

Box elders can be tapped for sap too,  although it will be awhile before they are big enough for that.

I’m gathering seeds for more box elders and for Siberian elms.

I had no idea I had embarked on silvopasture!  How fun.  And it’s wonderful to know where I can turn for support.

We’re in a drought here, and I live in an arid climate with alkaline soil.  I’m having to water all these trees with a hose, and am limited to 10,000 gallons a month, with dire consequences for taking more than my share, (including shunning in the small community of this water cooperative’s users ).  I am using meters on my two hydrants.

And I am “doing good, so far”.  Of my 48 trees, I have lost about 6… mostly from goats pushing against the fence to get close enough to pull up my little tree like a radish!

Trees are up to 18 inches tall, with “trunks” finer than a match stick.

Now we are entering peak grasshopper season!😰

I am clearing dried annuals from around the trees, hoping to keep the multitudes away, but I don’t think that’s going to be adequate.  I have clouds of grasshoppers rising out of the vegetation.

I have some row cover, and I have some tomato cage type structures to attach window screen to, but I wonder if there aren’t some easier methods!

Got any ideas?