petroleum and driving and permaculture

Arthur Angaran wrote:
Now I wonder why we could not think about using the air powered vehicles.  ..... How cleaner would that be than gasoline?

In past years as new powering technologies were being bandied about, I recall hearing about this and then forgot about it as other options seemed to gain traction.  Now I find a few YouTube videos where it's still being explored and agree......why would this not be hotly pursued as a low-range local transit option?  I can see right away where there would appear to be less money to be made by the manufacturers and distributors, but seems like a great and generally low-emitting approach to boot!

James Alun wrote:For example, in Colorado in 2010, 430 trillion BTU's were used in transportation. 90 trillion actually moved stuff, 390 trillion BTUs of energy just blown out of the tailpipe.

I'm not saying that this bit is massively helpful to this discussion, but it's a really cool tool for looking at priorities.

That's a good chart. There is another one at Energy Literacy that lets you really dive into the details. And what amazes me is looking at how transmitting energy causes so much loss of energy. Nuclear power creates a ton of energy, but once you transform it into electricity and transmit it on the grid, half of the energy is already gone. That by itself is a huge argument for hyper local energy production. If I set up a DC solar system for my house, that solar system wastes a lot of energy. But I can reclaim some of that energy as heat, and I am not wasting so much energy by trying to transmit it on the grid. Even more so if I burn local wood in an RMH. There is energy lost in building the RMH and collecting fuel for it. But so much more of the energy stays in the house.

If you really want change then we must find intermediate answers that don't demand huge sacrifice, don't demand much thought and produce real results.  Human beings are stubborn creatures.  They are also creatures of habit and they tend to be lazy about thinking.

John Weiland wrote:

Arthur Angaran wrote:
Now I wonder why we could not think about using the air powered vehicles.  ..... How cleaner would that be than gasoline?

In past years as new powering technologies were being bandied about, I recall hearing about this and then forgot about it as other options seemed to gain traction.  Now I find a few YouTube videos where it's still being explored and agree......why would this not be hotly pursued as a low-range local transit option?  I can see right away where there would appear to be less money to be made by the manufacturers and distributors, but seems like a great and generally low-emitting approach to boot!

Small bump on the thread here

I was thinking a lot about air powered vehicles recently. What sparked it was a Geoff Lawton video where he mentioned trompes as a potential energy source for compressed air. Its probably not the best solution for deep rural transport over long distances but in urban environments with good rainfall and already existing high-rise buildings, adding a trompe to the drains seems like a logical way to turn all that concrete and steel into something useful- compressed air.

What I'd really love to see is something like an e-bike but with a compressed air motor instead batteries.

I love this, how does one add pie/apples or whatever "like" very much type thing is used here?

Jeff Steez wrote:I
"Stop leaving and you will arrive."

"You don’t need to travel all over the world to understand the world. You can see the Tao by looking into your heart, rather than looking out of the window.

Notice all the people out there who fixate on the external world in search of answers. The more frantic their search, the less they actually find.

Observing all this, the sages know the path of the Tao must be different. When you are truly walking the Tao, you don’t need to go on a pilgrimage to reach the divine. You don’t need to chase after knowledge to attain wisdom. Everything can be effortless — just like the way your heart requires no effort to function."

Daniel Sillito wrote:

John Weiland wrote:

Arthur Angaran wrote:
Now I wonder why we could not think about using the air powered vehicles.  ..... How cleaner would that be than gasoline?


In past years as new powering technologies were being bandied about, I recall hearing about this and then forgot about it as other options seemed to gain traction.  

Disregarding any consideration of overall energy consumption, can an air-powered vehicle be anything but short-range? I suppose that those in dense communities could generally make do with such a vehicle (assuming they could run compressors), but those of us in rural and less dense communities are better served with single vehicles capable of greater range.

David Wieland wrote:

Daniel Sillito wrote:

John Weiland wrote:

Arthur Angaran wrote:
Now I wonder why we could not think about using the air powered vehicles.  ..... How cleaner would that be than gasoline?


In past years as new powering technologies were being bandied about, I recall hearing about this and then forgot about it as other options seemed to gain traction.  

Disregarding any consideration of overall energy consumption, can an air-powered vehicle be anything but short-range? I suppose that those in dense communities could generally make do with such a vehicle (assuming they could run compressors), but those of us in rural and less dense communities are better served with single vehicles capable of greater range.

Actually, it's a power problem. When compressed air escapes, it also freezes the outlet, resulting in diminished power. It means that you can run a small vehicle in a city, but you can't move a big truck. Since we lack the infrastructure for recharging pressured air efficiently, this technology has not advanced.