small scale dairy without extra calves

Su Ba wrote:Happened to see this discussion…….not that I plan to debate the pros and cons. Just wanted to interject some information to clear up what I noted as a tad of confusion……

Precocious lactation —— it happens with mammals. The animal produces milk even though it was not pregnant. It most commonly occurs with pseudo pregnancy, that is, a false pregnancy. BUT in my vet practice I have seen both cats and dogs be precocious milkers. It is quite uncommon but it happens. And decades ago, one of my friends had a young Alpine doe do it too. Now here’s a very interesting case: a spayed 2 year old husky bitch adopted a litter of kittens and allowed them to suckle. 2 to 3 weeks later it was noted that the bitch was lactating. She lactated for 4 to 6 (I cannot remember to exact details of the case anymore).

Precocious lactation is not the same as natural lactation. The amount of milk is much reduced and the duration appears to be shorter. I have only seen about half a dozen cases in my veterinary career, so it is not all that common, but it does exist.

YESSSS!! Thank you 🙏
I’m a vet too, it’s been frustrating reading a few of the posts on this thread. Your explanation is much needed here.👍👏

Joylynn Hardesty wrote:I know a woman who had previously birthed and nursed her children who then successfully nursed an adopted child.

Do animals have this ability?

Yes, they most definitely do.  Wild animals "adopt" infants and juveniles and that can include nursing depending on the species.

tuffy monteverdi wrote:

Joylynn Hardesty wrote:I think I was unclear. This human mother had not been pregnant in the last two years prior to the adoption. Lactation from her latest child had long been finished. She alternated formula and nursing until her milk came back in.

Can animals do that?

Spontaneous milk production without some kind of pregnancy or recent birth isn’t a thing in humans or any animal, as far as I know.

This is not as uncommon as you think.  I personally know of a number of Women who have begun lactating after an adoption, I know a man who did as well.  There's lots of really cool information out there on this if it's something you are really interested in.

While this information is interesting, and I have heard similar stories... the real question would be whether you could trigger this enough to create a small dairy without extra calves.

Unfortunately it sounds rare, and seems to often be triggered by hormone responses to false pregnancy and having a new baby around. I'm just not sure there is enough consistency to use this spontaneous lactation for a business.

Matt McSpadden wrote:While this information is interesting, and I have heard similar stories... the real question would be whether you could trigger this enough to create a small dairy without extra calves.

Unfortunately it sounds rare, and seems to often be triggered by hormone responses to false pregnancy and having a new baby around. I'm just not sure there is enough consistency to use this spontaneous lactation for a business.

I also have serious doubts about the effects on the health of the cow, if this were to go on, repetitively. Nature does what it does for good reasons, and the hormonal stress that brings on, and continues this phenomenon would doubtless be detrimental to her overall health, and could even potentially have detrimental effect on the quality of the milk. I honestly believe this is one of those things in life about which there is a fairly clear choice: milk & calves or no milk & no calves. BUT, it's also a prime opportunity to build community, by supporting someone else's farm, if one doesn't want to deal with the destination of the offspring.

The dilemma is circular, and could easily be applied to almost everything in life. If we want X we must accept that it comes with certain undeniable, inevitable consequences. If the consequences are unacceptable, we are left with the choice of giving up the want or compromising our values.

I've met about 200 goats that can stay in lactation for 4 or more years without kidding (making baby goats). It takes a lot of work and knowing of nutrition.   Twice day milking with zero misses.

Most people new to goats can't do this.  Those with expirence have trouble understanding why people have trouble with it.  

The best way to learn is to work in an established farm for 12 to 24 months (two kidding seasons).  Listen to what they say and accept that goats don't read books or the internet.   The farmer with first hand expirence knows more than all the internet combined.

I did this for a while.  That's why I don't have goats.  Shittonne of work to get it right.  Most people cannot handle that kind of obligation.

Burra Maluca wrote:When I was involved with goats in the UK, which is a looooong time ago, there was a huge difference between the breeds.

Anglo Nubians would basically need to be bred every year to keep the milk flowing.

Pure Toggenburgs every year.

British Toggenburgs every other year.

Alpines and British Alpines mostly every year.

Saanen and British Saanen could be left for five, six, maybe seven years and still produce about a pint of milk a day at the end.

My own little British Toggenburg could give milk for three years after kidding.

I knew quite a few one-goat smallholders who would buy a recently kidded British Saanen from a reputable breeder and basically never have to breed.

I also knew a vegetarian breeder of Anglo Nubians who would put the male kids down at birth, though that never sat quite with me.

I am finding that here in Tasmania toggenburgs milk for longer than saanens.

We milked through for three years once, the milk supply dropped down quite a lot towards the end.

We’re just coming out of milking through for two years now and it’s gone really well. Supply didn’t drop down as much over winter as it would if they were pregnant, and then in springtime they picked right up, producing the full amount they would when freshly kidded.

Cheese quality is still excellent this late in the lactation.

Goats can be a good option for a vegetarian dairy if you have a market for pet/lawnmower goats. If I were doing this, I would also pick a breed that would milk through, so that there weren’t so many kids that needed rehoming. Miniature goats seem very popular here for pets, so finding some dwarf goats that will milk through reliably could work well.