Making milk kefir from OLD grains

Hi everyone, I am new to Permies, and pretty new at fermentation. So, about a year ago I was given some kefir grains in a small jar of milk. It happened to be a very complicated time in my life, and they got put into the fridge where they migrated to the back and got forgotten about. Every so often I would spot them, think "I should do something with those", and then forget about them again. Well, about a week ago they surfaced again and I was just going to chuck them into the compost. When I opened the jar, I was expecting a really putrid rotten milk odor, but to my surprise there wasn't much odor at all. It smelled a little tangy, maybe a little yeasty, and not unpleasant at all. So I decided, what the heck, I would put it into some fresh milk, leave it on the counter, and see what happened.
Well, what's been happening is that the milk is definitely turning into something else, but I'm not sure what. There is absolutely no smell or taste of what I would call "sour milk", that is, milk that's gone bad (yes I did, after sniffing it, cautiously taste it); it smells and tastes tangy and "yogurty". I actually find it quite delicious. Every 8-12 hours I give it new milk, and I've been happily drinking the "old" milk, which is tangy but not too tart, and mildly fizzy. It does remain quite liquid, though; it hasn't ever really thickened into what I understand kefir texture is supposed to be.
So, any thoughts about what might be going on with my Lazarus grains here? Any advice about how to continue? Any help for this newbie would be much appreciated!
Thanks,
Beyla

Please don't chuck them. I think I can help you revive them. Give me a few hours to deal with something on the farm. I'll tell you more tonight!

This is so us! My wife made kefir at the end of last year and we still have a sorry-looking jar of kefir. Haven't dared to look inside recently, but we'll be very interested to see whether they can be revived.

The theory is, if the kefir grains are still grainy (not melted) and they don't smell horrid, one can in theory revive them.

Your best bet is to go to the library and check out a copy of Katz's Art of Fermenation or better still, Natural Cheesemakingby Asher. They know so much more than I do. Asher makes almost all his cheese with kefir! He has a whole chapter devoted to it.

Failing that, here's what I've had success doing.

Get some good quality, hopefully organic, not-high pasteurized milk.

Per 1 tsp of kefir grains
use
2 cups of milk.

Combine kefir and milk, mix every few hours when you remember. Keep at room temp, where you see it and remember it.

After 2 days, strain. Keep the grains, toss the liquid, add 2 more cups of milk.

Repeat, changing the milk every 2 days until your kefir becomes thick and happy.

It may take a week or so, but so long as your grains aren't getting smaller, you're on the right track.

White fuzzy mold is fine, black mold is a sing to toss the whole thing and get new grains.


These are the instructions (paraphrased) that the shop I got my kefir gave me. It's worked really well for restoring old grains.

Any more questions, feel free to ask.

R Ranson, Thank you so much for getting back to me (especially since you sound like you have a super-busy life!). I am actually reading "The Art of Fermentation" now, and will definitely check out the cheesemaking book. It sounds like I am doing sort of what you say to be doing. I never even thought of having to know how much grains I'm working with. It's kind of hard to figure, because they are in 3-4 largish clumps, but I guesstimate about a tablespoon. I've been pouring 1-2 cups of milk on that -- so you say it should be closer to about 6 cups? Also, I've been changing it more like every half day instead of every 2 days, maybe that's why it hasn't thickened; I just haven't been giving it long enough. I will try that. And the stirring, which it never occurred to me to do. I think the grains might actually be growing, they certainly aren't getting smaller. One thing that's changing, when I first took them out of the jar a week ago they looked yellow and rubbery, then as I kept changing the milk I noticed that they started looking like they were getting coated with white softish curdy looking stuff.. I'm hoping that means that they are getting healthier? that they are getting what they need from the milk to make themselves less naked? maybe? What is certain, though, is that there is no sign of mold at all, and it continues to smell good and to taste delicious. I will definitely continue working with it. Just one question: when you say "toss the liquid" do you just mean don't use it again in the kefir, or do you mean it is actually not safe for consumption? Again, thank you so much for taking the time to help me out!

Brad -- Be brave!

Cheers,
Beyla

I never even thought of having to know how much grains I'm working with. It's kind of hard to figure, because they are in 3-4 largish clumps, but I guesstimate about a tablespoon. I've been pouring 1-2 cups of milk on that -- so you say it should be closer to about 6 cups

Hmmm, that's a good question.

The theory I've read says yes, it should be more milk. My experience suggests it's not so important. How about this. Put the largest of the lumps in about 1/4 cup of milk in the back of the fridge and ignore it for now. With the rest, try the 2 cups. Maybe change every day or every two days as you desire.

When I revive my forgotten lumps, it usually takes several changes of milk. I'm pretty lazy so I usually change mine less often than the books suggest. My instinct is that when waking up the grains, it helps to wait longer before changing the milk.

The liquid should be safe for consumption. I think it tastes pretty chalky when reviving my grains (but yours may taste different as you have different milk and different grains).

As for mold, it isn't necessarily a bad thing. Keifer contains in it several different kinds of beneficial molds (mostly the kinds used to make cheese, like that white fuzzy coat on the outside of brie). Black mold is usually your deadly mold, so look out for that, but white and blue mold can be quite alright (use your best judgment of course).


There are thousands of 'correct' ways to do this. It might be worth splitting your grains into a couple of batches, try one one way and another a different way. See what works best for you.

"There are thousands of 'correct' ways to do this. " That's what I love about this! That there are so many ways to be right. That there's not just one perfect way, and everything else is a failure. Experimentation is good! In the meantime, I'm glad you confirmed that the product I'm getting now is safe to drink (it'd be a bit late now to find out that it wasn't, since I've been drinking it for over a week now.) As I've said, I find it delicious, and as a matter of fact, I'm finding it hard to resist the temptation to guzzle it every time I uncover it to stir it. Waiting two days will be hard!

Hm, I'm wondering if I'm leaving mine to ferment too long. Mine has a bit of a yeasty taste to it which I don't like. I'll have to try a shorter ferment and see what it's like.

Huh! Let me know.

I make a batch of kefir daily. A tablespoon of grains some whole homogenized milk temperature 25C and every morning I have a new batch. A tablespoon of grains from the previous batch seeds the new batch.

http://durgan.org/2016/April%202016/22%20April%202016%20Kefir/HTML/ 22 April 2016 Kefir

I had three batches of kefir fermenting and getting too much ahead. The three jars were strained and the grain all mixed in one jar, milk added for food, and stored in the refrigerator until needed for a new batch. This will be my seed grains for all future batches. It appears about half a liter per day will meet my requirements. The grains will be a mixture of some from a local supplier and some from a commercial supplier.



http://durgan.org/2016/April%202016/15%20April%20Kefir%20From%20Grains/HTML/ 15 April 2016 Kefir From Grains
A tablespoon of kefir grains was purchased for $5.00 from a seller off KIJIJI in Kitchener. Apparently these grains are older than God, and will be used for my future seed to make kefir. Milk was added and they were fermented at 25 C for about 20 hours when separation of whey began. The whey was siphoned off and the solid material (kefir) strained to make a drink. The whey was drank. The grains were removed and used to start another batch. Pictures depict the simple process.

Thank you, thank you. I posted a search in google: "I forgot a batch of kefir in the refrigerator for 4 months, are the grains still good?" This thread was the 5th on the list of hits out of 170,000 results. Pretty good Permies.

My grains also didn't smell bad, though a little like alcohol and what I call a regular kefir smell, maybe a little yeasty. My fridge is kept under 40 degrees, usually between 36 and 40, my target is 36. I am going to get some milk and see if it is still viable. I got grains from two places one a friend and the other from Gem cultures. It proved to be too much and I was already sensitive to milk. That much kefir was overwhelming my body and I developed a bit of a rattle in my chest and some stuffiness, so I backed off for a while.

I'm better now and wanted to try it again, paying closer attention to how much I drink of course. I just can't ignore the benefits to my gut. The only other option is to continue buying it already made. Lifeway makes an organic plain Kefir that tastes really good. I keep (drink) it 'til it's gone, about two or three weeks. I sometimes strain it for whey, and use the strained kefir like sour cream, and the whey for fermentation starter.

Again, thank you for this thread.

Power to Permies!

Old post but I hope someone answer. I have some grains 6 (six) years now in refrigerator forgotten with the same milk. Open it after 6 years, the smell was like wine or something, not bad, and the jar was mostly water (whey probably). I was ready to toss them in garbage, but I washed them under running water first , and after running milk (500ml) after. Nest a new jar clean, with the grains (yellow and small) with a little amount of fresh milk. Next day strain them and put a little bigger jar with more fresh milk. After 12 hours taste it and it was a little flat . Strain again and put some fresh milk again. 24 hours later, a thick good smelling kefir (and tasty) was ready.  I don't know how it's possible the grains to work....

Yes I have found out since I posted that Kefir grains are quite forgiving. I have even rescued them from the outdoor scrap pan that I leave for critters. I thought it was just old kefir when I poured it in there. It took a lot of work to clean out all the debris luckily it was mostly dry leaves. I kept watch making sure it didn't go off for several batches cleaning out any foreign objects as I went. Now it makes wonderful kefir.

r ranson wrote:Hm, I'm wondering if I'm leaving mine to ferment too long.  Mine has a bit of a yeasty taste to it which I don't like.  I'll have to try a shorter ferment and see what it's like.

Try keeping the lid on tight so the bacteria have a chance to multiply, leaving it open seems to be advantageous to the yeast production.

Hi John,

Welcome to Permies.

John Dam wrote:Old post but I hope someone answer. I have some grains 6 (six) years now in refrigerator forgotten with the same milk. Open it after 6 years, the smell was like wine or something, not bad, and the jar was mostly water (whey probably). I was ready to toss them in garbage, but I washed them under running water first , and after running milk (500ml) after. Nest a new jar clean, with the grains (yellow and small) with a little amount of fresh milk. Next day strain them and put a little bigger jar with more fresh milk. After 12 hours taste it and it was a little flat . Strain again and put some fresh milk again. 24 hours later, a thick good smelling kefir (and tasty) was ready.  I don't know how it's possible the grains to work....

John, I don't feel so bad now for leaving my grains in the fridge too long, yes months in my case. as I said in my earlier post Kefir is very forgiving.
They seem to like long ferment times, mine do anyway, they are growing and multiplying fast. I am building up my grains to have a kefir demonstration at our local farmers market partly to sell my extra grains but mostly because gut health is so important and kefir is a good way to accomplish that.
I also noticed they develop a slight stringy consistency; from what, Sandra, the lady I bought my grains from and wife of the famed kefir guru Dom Anfiteatro said, that stringiness is the kefiran protein the stuff that is so good for gut dysbiosis.  
Her quote: "The slimy element is the kefiran which is very prominent at certain times especially after being in warmer weather for a little while.
The Spring temps are very good for the grains - not too hot and not too cold.
The kefiran is also the very medicinal part of the kefir and the grains - this means your grains are very healthy and happy and the more the kefiran the more your grains will be going through a growth spurt.".

Personally, I prefer my kefir not to be stringy so I try to avoid it by stopping the ferment between 24 and 36 hours. I refrigerate it for another 24 before I consume it, though it is quite ready to consume as soon as it is fermented to your liking.

I also want to try drying the grains for the future. Drying several portions and rehydrating them at different times to see how long is too long to store them. From what John Dam said in his post I may not discover what is too long.

For now I will enjoy making and sharing my kefir and what ever knowledge I gain from it.

Sandra Sciascia has now put Dom Anfiteatros' kefir and purchase instructions on the website "My Fermented Life" She was very kind, answering all my newbie questions by email.
She lives in Australia, the grains I purchased from her seemed to have to get accustom to being on the other side of the planet they took a couple weeks to produce a good tasting (to me) Kefir, even though they seemed very happy when I got them.

I have another question about kefir. How many times do the grains need  to produce kefir to double in quantity? I know that there are different kefir strains and they each have different behavior but is there an average estimate you could tell me?

Evelyn Mitchell wrote:

John Dam wrote:Old post but I hope someone answer. I have some grains 6 (six) years now in refrigerator forgotten with the same milk. Open it after 6 years, the smell was like wine or something, not bad, and the jar was mostly water (whey probably). I was ready to toss them in garbage, but I washed them under running water first , and after running milk (500ml) after. Nest a new jar clean, with the grains (yellow and small) with a little amount of fresh milk. Next day strain them and put a little bigger jar with more fresh milk. After 12 hours taste it and it was a little flat . Strain again and put some fresh milk again. 24 hours later, a thick good smelling kefir (and tasty) was ready.  I don't know how it's possible the grains to work....

John, I don't feel so bad now for leaving my grains in the fridge too long, yes months in my case. as I said in my earlier post Kefir is very forgiving.
They seem to like long ferment times, mine do anyway, they are growing and multiplying fast. I am building up my grains to have a kefir demonstration at our local farmers market partly to sell my extra grains but mostly because gut health is so important and kefir is a good way to accomplish that.
I also noticed they develop a slight stringy consistency; from what, Sandra, the lady I bought my grains from and wife of the famed kefir guru Dom Anfiteatro said, that stringiness is the kefiran protein the stuff that is so good for gut dysbiosis.  
Her quote: "The slimy element is the kefiran which is very prominent at certain times especially after being in warmer weather for a little while.
The Spring temps are very good for the grains - not too hot and not too cold.
The kefiran is also the very medicinal part of the kefir and the grains - this means your grains are very healthy and happy and the more the kefiran the more your grains will be going through a growth spurt.".

Personally, I prefer my kefir not to be stringy so I try to avoid it by stopping the ferment between 24 and 36 hours. I refrigerate it for another 24 before I consume it, though it is quite ready to consume as soon as it is fermented to your liking.

I also want to try drying the grains for the future. Drying several portions and rehydrating them at different times to see how long is too long to store them. From what John Dam said in his post I may not discover what is too long.

For now I will enjoy making and sharing my kefir and what ever knowledge I gain from it.

Sandra Sciascia has now put Dom Anfiteatros' kefir and purchase instructions on the website "My Fermented Life" She was very kind, answering all my newbie questions by email.
She lives in Australia, the grains I purchased from her seemed to have to get accustom to being on the other side of the planet they took a couple weeks to produce a good tasting (to me) Kefir, even though they seemed very happy when I got them.

Thanks a lot Evelyn for the quick and detailed answer.