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could we have a 'seed saving' forum? or just one called 'seeds'?

 
Judith Browning
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I'm sure this has been suggested in the past.
I don't remember if there was a reason for not having a 'seed' forum?

It seems like there are a lot of seed/seed saving/breeding/requests for seeds/seed trading threads, etc.
....I haven't counted them though. 
'Resources' covers only where to buy.
and then, maybe one is here and I missed it?

Maybe I'm remembering discussion about a 'seed trading' forum? 

The heat here is frying my brain.....
 
Burra Maluca
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We already have one for plant breeding.

I wonder if it would be best to modify the title to include seed saving?  The two things go together so closely maybe it's best to not separate them?
 
R Ranson
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Burra Maluca wrote:We already have one for plant breeding.

I wonder if it would be best to modify the title to include seed saving?  The two things go together so closely maybe it's best to not separate them?



This has been on my mind a lot.  There have been many a time I started making a 'seed' or 'seed saving' forum then shake my head and say to myself: every time we save seeds, we are engaging in plant breeding.  But then, not everyone knows that, so maybe I should change plant breeding to seeds.  But no, that would make it more difficult for those who are into the hardcore plant breeding to find a place to chat and I really want to encourage that. But wouldn't it be more useful to encourage seed saving, it would have a larger impact.  Yes, that's true, maintaining genetic diversity like with seed saving, is important, but isn't the feeling of this forum about increasing diversity as a path to resilience, so that would be about encouraging breeding...

It's a very long conversation and I can't get past that stalemate. 

I think, this is the perfect time of year to have a seed saving forum. 

These are the options I've come up with:
  • plant breeding and seed saving (too long)
  • just plant breeding - and hope people who want to find seeds come there
  • just seed saving - and hope people who want to plant breed think to look there
  • two different forums, one for plant breeding and one for seed saveing


  • I'm hoping there is another option.  More and more, I feel that even though breeding and seed saving are one and the same thing, maybe we need two different forums so that people can find them better? 


    A completely wild idea which probably isn't possible is to have one forum show up under two names.  Like how we have one thread show up in multiple forums, but the links both go to the same place. 
     
    Burra Maluca
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    plant breeding and seed saving (too long)


    Is it really too long?  I've had a quick look at some of the forum titles and I don't think it would be the longest.

     
    John Polk
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    I feel that MANY users are interested in seed saving, while a much smaller percentage would be interested in actual breeding.  While the two are closely tied together, they are not the same thing.

     
    Judith Browning
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    John Polk wrote:I feel that MANY users are interested in seed saving, while a much smaller percentage would be interested in actual breeding.  While the two are closely tied together, they are not the same thing.



    could it be a separate forum that would include seed saving and seed trading? 
      I think the 'resource' forum isn't quite the place to include those looking for seed swaps.

     
    Su Ba
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    To me, plant breeding and seed saving are two different things. While I am a seed saver (actually becoming a seed producer to be more accurate), I don't breed plants. I grow varieties that already exist and pretty much self pollinate
     
    R Ranson
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    John Polk wrote:I feel that MANY users are interested in seed saving, while a much smaller percentage would be interested in actual breeding.  While the two are closely tied together, they are not the same thing.



    I feel they are the same thing.  Every time we choose to save seeds from one plant, or all, or just a few, this is an act of selection (even if it's just natural selection of what will survive in specific conditions) - this is plant breeding.   There are other tools in plant breeding like hand pollinating, deliberate crosses, &c, but these are just different ways of choosing which seeds to save. 

    Saving seeds is one subcategory of plant breeding.  However, I acknowledged this is a technical distinction and not the one most common in the public mind. 

    People seem to view seed saving as something completely different than plant breeding.  I think that's a shame and I am glad for authors like Carol Deppe and their work to try to clarify that there is no difference.  I feel that it would be a benefit to this site if we could help encourage people to see seed saving for what it is and understand that there is no giant leap from seed saving to plant breeding; it's more like stepping over a crack in the sidewalk.
     
    R Ranson
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    Another thing to think about:  Growies is getting pretty big.  Is it time to separate it into different categories?

     
    R Ranson
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    How about: Seed saving / exchange / breeding  as the forum title?
     
    Judith Browning
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    Well, what about a forum called 'seeds' with sub forums for 'plant breeding', 'seed saving', 'seed swapping', etc....

    I think what some are looking for in 'seed saving' is how to harvest, dry and store....not necessarily how to select.
     
    Judith Browning
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    R Ranson wrote:How about: Seed saving / exchange / breeding  as the forum title?


    haha, writing at the same time...
    Seed saving / exchange / breeding might cover the works
     
    R Ranson
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    Judith Browning wrote:Well, what about a forum called 'seeds' with sub forums for 'plant breeding', 'seed saving', 'seed swapping', etc....

    I think what some are looking for in 'seed saving' is how to harvest, dry and store....not necessarily how to select.


    What about propagation instead of just 'seeds'?  This way we can include cuttings, graftings, &c.

    This is the solution I'm leaning towards.

    The only challenge for me is if there are enough threads to populate the forums.  Paul said he likes any new forums to be populated as quickly as possible - something to do with the SEO?
     
    John Polk
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      Every time we choose to save seeds from one plant, or all, or just a few, this is an act of selection (even if it's just natural selection of what will survive in specific conditions) - this is plant breeding.

    In the strictest sense, this is correct.  Most seed savers that I know don't usually think of it in that sense.

    Perhaps, if we combine the two, we can help the basic savers become better at what they do.

    Just like breeding chickens, pigs, or whatever, instilling the basic concept of "Breed the best, eat the rest." should actually increase the odds of each successive generation being an improvement (at least at the 'local level').

    After waiting 3 months plus, most tomato lovers gleefully eat the first ripe tomatoes, and postpone the seed saving until later in the season.  Sadly, this is working against them - they are not breeding for early tomatoes, which can be critical in short-season areas.

     
    Casie Becker
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    I'm gonna cast my vote (as if this were a democracy, sorry paul) towards combining the two topics. Include both items in the forum name.

    I don't think this will intimidate novice seed savers. At the same time, I think this will help them (me) become familiar with the principles involved in deliberately encouraging their plants to become more adapted to their particular needs. When the principles feel familiar it's much less intimidating to start actively developing your varieties.

    Unless there is so much traffic on related topics that it's hard to keep up with relevant threads, I find it more troublesome than helpful to have separate topics for everything. How many people miss seeing or responding to a thread which they would have an interest or an input in just because the poster didn't select correct correct forum? No, that wasn't a stutter; the problem I see is that too many topics makes more than one forum correct. I think it creates extra works for the moderators also, as they try to link posts to the relevant forums.
     
    R Ranson
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    I've changed the name of the plant breeding forum to seed saving / exchange / plant breeding and added the following description.

    Seed saving, seed exchange, where to buy seeds, plant breeding, and propagation.


    If you see any threads that would be a good fit, please report it and the moderators can add it to that forum.  Also, those of you with PIE Powers, can add a thread to forums yourself.  It's pretty cool having PIE Power.

    If later on, the forum gets overcrowded, we can separate it out into smaller sections. 
     
    Tracy Wandling
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    I think this is a great idea! I'm very interested in seed saving and plant breeding, and I think it's important to help teach people that they can do both, and that it's not as complicated as it may seem. Well done!
     
    I agree. Here's the link: http://richsoil.com/cards
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