Self powered water pump?

Would this kind of thing work?

Hi. Short answer "NO". But if you want to go that way see about Milkovic Two-Stage Oscillator , has allot of practical applications,even for a manual well pump.

I would check out Archimedes screw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes'_screw been used since ancient times its very good also how about using a ramjet pump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_ram

What you are proposing is a perpetual motion machine. Short version - they don't work, and it is impossible for them to work.

Longer version - where does the energy come from to make the water flow? Gravity makes water flow down hill, not uphill. To get the water out of the ground in the first place energy needs to come from somewhere. If you wanted to get that same energy back out again from the water you would need to let the water fall back down to the same original height - eg back down the full depth of the bore hole - which defeats the point.

More than that, you can never get ALL the energy back because there will be lots of friction and rubbing in a system like that, so energy is lost at each stage.

Archimedes screw plus donkey was  pretty standard though out the east or even with a windmill
So dose n't have to be perpetual motion machine

David Livingston wrote:Archimedes screw plus donkey was  pretty standard though out the east or even with a windmill
So dose n't have to be perpetual motion machine

It's the part where the water lifted from the well drives the screw to lift the water from the well that is the problem, David.  That version is a perpetual motion machine and cannot work.  Archimedes screw isn't the problem, energy for driving it in the system depicted is the problem.  Introducing a donkey, or any other external energy source to drive the screw is a whole different system And yes, they work and have worked for eons.

That was my take too David. It is hard to tell as the sketch is a touch crude, but I thought Scott was using the current flowing by in a stream to power a chain that powered a set of gears to power a screw. I do not see why that would not work. A spiral coil of tubing would work better up to a certain height of lift due to the diameter of the waterwheel, but I don't see why it would not work.

If the intent was for a perpetual motion machine, then obviously not.

I think the sketch was pretty good.
And it won't work as drawn.
If you have running water,you could use some of that energy to move the water itself.
A water wheel driving a generator which in turn powers a pump,for example. Or a purely mechanical version of the same.
But the water from the pump can't then power the wheel,that would be perpetual motion and it would not work.

Hi,
here are some ideas and realizations of a gravity-operated water pumps. Milkovic dual oscillator(pendulum) and its not a "perpetuum mobile". Just needs some energy input from time to time. If constructed good, you can just swing the pendulum in the morning and let it work all day.But it takes like a 2 metric ton pendulum,and its hard to start the oscillations by just pushing it with your hands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNdF8mTfu4g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt4dLsqX_I4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n7mvpLpP5A

here is the more about the dual oscillator
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/indexEng.htm

I think the original post was about making easier the use of a manual water pump. The method , Archimedes screw or roman pump dose not matter.

So I was just wondering how to make a self-powered screw pump... why not have a paddle on the spiral core so it turns from the pressure of the passing water, instead of needing a donkey? Lots of water pressure in my irrigation ditch; would spin the screw like a propeller.

And then I found this:

http://www.epicphysics.com/engineering/archimedes-screw/archimedes-screw-perpetual-motion-machines/

I can do you one even better.
A well that pumps itself and also power a generator. These actually exist.
https://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/water_pdf/flowingwell.pdf

Find/Create an artesian well with say 30psi (aka a head of 72ft) and a flow rate of 400gpm.
P = 0.2 x Head x Flow
P = 0.2 x 72ft x 400gpm
P = 5760W
Now this well is running 24/7 so in a day it would produce 5760W x 24H, so 138KWH per day.

Now we have to be more realistic, the mechanical turbine and the electrical generator and inverters and such aren't 100% efficient, after all is said and done we will have probably lost about half of that Power/Energy, but that is still close 3,000W and 72KWH per day.

Nifty! unfortunately I don't have access to an artesian well, but in a pinch I could use the irrigation ditch where it plunges downhill (tho that's on the neighbor's place). Downside is it doesn't run in the winter...

But my current desire is getting water out of the ditch without rebuilding the head gate... and without running a powered pump. So using the water's own force seems like a good alternative.

Funny thing, when I was looking for info about it, this page came up. :D

Rez Zircon wrote:But my current desire is getting water out of the ditch without rebuilding the head gate... and without running a powered pump. So using the water's own force seems like a good alternative.

@ Rez A head gate/dam will allow you to use gravity to get water out of the ditch to where you want it. That sounds like the best idea to me, You could also setup a solar pump system. It will get X amount of water to your garden ever week, even after accounting for rain/cloud cover. Now if you need a constant flow of fresh oxygenated water 24/7 for a say a overstocked fish pond, then  you probably can't use the variability that a solar pump setup will give you due to night time and multiday storm, but maybe a battery buffer would help.

There is a head gate off the main ditch at the top of the hill, but the metal "gate" on my side is seized, and I haven't gotten around to digging it out and trying to get it unseized. (Replacement gate is $700 just for the metal, so that ain't happening any time soon.) At one time it had a big pipe but that's gone, and now there's just a wet spot.

The little ditch (just big enough to wet your feet) that runs down my south boundary comes off the other side of the head gate. At one time it had a head gate of its own down by my "orchard" but that's entirely gone and would need to be completely redone. Also where I can get at it is a bit far downhill to get more than a soft flow.

Right now I've got a couple black pipes in the little ditch, and 2x 500 feet of hose siphoning out of the main head gate, so get some gravity feed that way. But I can't pull enough that way to water the yard and garden and trees AND the pasture, so the pasture just does without.

But I'm lookin' at the spot where I can get at the main ditch, and all that water-power flowing by at high speed, and thinking that if it can be convinced to lift water over the lip, that and some perforated sewer pipe would do the pasture a lot of good. There's enough pressure to run a pretty big screw pump. (There's not really a good place to put solar anything, tho. Would only get a little afternoon sun.)

There's a hollow at the top of the hill, below the ditch, that I've thought about digging down a bit and turning into a pond (more for dog training than for fish, and as seep irrigation for the pasture) but it would need to be lined, otherwise all the water would disappear as fast as you poured it in.

Anyway, those are today's thoughts. Tomorrow I may have different thoughts. :D

Not sure what the video is selling. Looks like a siphon with a check valve to me. No magic magnetic energy involved.

Hello, I saw a few videos on YouTube about autonomous water pumps related to this. As far as I understood, this is just a concept, and unfortunately it can't have 100% practical use