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Permaculture Smackdown

 
Josiah Wallingford
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Paul Wheaton and Josiah Wallingford host the new PETV show Permaculture Smackdown

The show is filmed in front of a live participating audience. If you are a PermaEthos student or a Permies Patreon, you are invited to join the live show.

To become a PermaEthos student simply sign up for a course at http://learn.permaethos.com.
To become a Permies Patreon go here: https://www.patreon.com/paulwheaton
 
Josiah Wallingford
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Episode 0001



In this episode:
Northern California Pond Smackdown

A listener chimes in about his farm in Northern California and his desire to put ponds and other earthworks in on his small property.

Community

Holacracy
Consensus Community
Using Podcasts to Weed out Community Members
Community Constitution
Removing the Dictator (The Founders Dilemma)
A Consensus Dictator Hybrid
Size of a Community
Leaving the Community
Innovation Stifled by dictatorship
Community Diversity
Turnkey Entry to the Community
Community Ant Barn Raising Projects - Peasant Workshops
Pitching in on Materials
Labor Bartering and Currency
Community Members Building Skillsets
Community Land - Livestock and More on Shared Land
Paddock Shifting Livestock on Community Property
Community Property Landscape
Slip Straw Construction

wheaton labs Update

how he obtained base camp at Wheaton Labs
Zoning
Wofatis
rocket mass heaters in the Wofati
rocket mass heater in a tipi
 
wayne fajkus
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I can see the video but can't hear it. Is it just me?
 
paul wheaton
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wayne fajkus wrote:I can see the video but can't hear it. Is it just me?


i am playing it now - i hear it fine.
 
wayne fajkus
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It's working for me now
 
paul wheaton
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Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
bee chicken hugelkultur trees wofati woodworking
 
Josiah Wallingford
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paul wheaton wrote:tuesday at 2?


Yes, every Tuesday at 2pm MST.
 
Josiah Wallingford
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Episode 0002



Thomas J. Elpel Botany in a Day and Shanleya's Quest: A Botany Adventure for Kids Ages 9-99

Thomas J. Elpel is an author, natural builder, educator and conservationist. He has authored multiple books:
Living Homes - https://www.amazon.com/Living-Homes-Masonry-Strawbale-Construction/dp/1892784327/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8
Foraging the Mountain West - https://www.amazon.com/Foraging-Mountain-West-Gourmet-Mushrooms/dp/189278436X/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8
Botany in a Day - https://www.amazon.com/Botany-Day-Patterns-Method-Identification/dp/1892784351/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8
Shanleya's Quest - https://www.amazon.com/Shanleyas-Quest-Botany-Adventure-Kids/dp/1892784165/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8
and numerous other ones about plant identification, wilderness survival, and sustainable living. He has multiple videos: Building a Slipform Stone House from the Bottom Up, How to Make a Grass Rope, Build Your own Masonry Fireplace - Masonry Heater - Masonry Stove, and many more. Thomas regularly teaches classes on plant identification, primitive skills and natural building. He is founder/director of Green University, LLC in Pony, Montana.

Wwoofer Woes and Gapper Solutions - WWOOFer challenges to overcome, for wwoofers and farmers

Wwoof.net: http://wwoof.net/
Wwoof International: http://wwoofinternational.org/
Wwoof USA: https://wwoofusa.org/

Gapper Program: https://permies.com/t/46350/experiences/gapper-program

Permies permaculture design course and Appropriate Technology Course

permaculture design course (PDC) at Wheaton Labs
https://richsoil.com/pdc.jsp

Sunday, May 28th through Saturday June 10th, 2017 near Missoula, Montana

This PDC will have a strong focus on DESIGN. Students attending this PDC will probably walk away with four times more experience with designing than students attending other PDCs. Most PDCs give equal time to urban, homestead and broadacre designs. This PDC will cover all three, but urban and broadacre design will be minimized so a stronger focus can be put on homesteading.

Tim Barker - 2017 PDC Instructor - http://www.koanga.org.nz/
Paul Wheaton - 2017 PDC Instructor - https://permies.com/
Thomas J. Elpel - 2017 PDC Guest Instructor - https://permies.com/t/23598/Botany-Day-Thomas-Elpel
Helen Atthowe - 2017 PDC Guest Instructor - https://permies.com/t/2230/Helen-Atthowe-goddess-soil
Ernie Wisner - 2017 PDC Guest Instructor - http://www.woodburningstoves2.com/
Erica Wisner - 2017 PDC Guest Instructor - http://richsoil.com/annex-plans.php
Jacqueline Freeman - 2017 PDC Guest Instructor - http://www.spiritbee.com/
Davin Hoyt - 2017 PDC Guest Instructor

The wheaton eco scale

A question came in: In the scenario of having a commercially oriented permaculture system, where the main source of income is produce, what would be the minimum land surface for it to be financially viable?
https://permies.com/t/3069/Wheaton-Eco-Scale
 
Josiah Wallingford
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0004 - Permaculture Smackdown - Why are there so few profitable Permaculture Farms



In this episode of Permaculture Smackdown, Paul Wheaton and Josiah Wallingford discuss Ridgedale Permaculture Richard Perkins excellent new video "Why are there so few profitable Permaculture Farms?".

Round 1: Examples of Wealthy Permaculture Farms
https://youtu.be/DV8pnyhOuU8

Essay: Gert and Ferd essay by Paul Wheaton - https://permies.com/t/55918/millions-permaculture-millionaires-story-Gert
sepp holzer: books, Richard Perkins visit, and Tour


Paul gives the example of sepp holzer being one of the farms that are making a million+ dollars a year.

Masanobu Fukuoka: another great example of someone wealthy in Permaculture

The wrong question to ask is where is the proof of making a million dollars and does it exist.

Round 2: Self-Limiting Beliefs
https://youtu.be/wqHUxNR4UbE

This falls right in line with the “prove it to me mentality”.
Yeah, but… the most annoying thing to hear.
Unfair advantages… boo hoo. If Paul Wheaton can do it, anybody can.
Paul has created ways to get started in permaculture: Boot Camp Program - Work for 18 months or pay $21,000 for an acre of land at Wheaton Labs. http://richsoil.com

Using other people's land to gain profit:
Curtis Stone - http://www.greencityacres.com/

Fleet Farming - http://fleetfarming.org/


Change Your Perspective Books
mortgage free by Rob Roy : https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006K40RHG/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
early retirement extreme by Jacob Lund Fisker : https://www.amazon.com/Early-Retirement-Extreme-Philosophical-Independence/dp/145360121X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489324686&sr=8-1&keywords=Early+Retirement+Extreme

Stop complaining and start innovating. The money is in doing something new not doing what others have done.

Round 3: Don’t have the skills to get into farming
https://youtu.be/oqBk4JXpEHY

It’s all about your attitude.
Do whatever needs to be done when it needs to be done. The reality check.

Don’t have the skills to get into the field, bullshit. There are a ton of new ways to get the needed skills to start practicing permaculture with online learning, work at a local farm, wwoof, books (not needed), PDC’s (not needed).
permaculture boot Camp : https://permies.com/t/59706/permaculture-bootcamp-learn-permaculture-hard
Look up the curriculum of a PDC and start researching those topics.

Round 4: Idealism over Pragmatism
https://youtu.be/YZ_Qk1DE72Y

Idealism needs to be switched over to pragmatism if you want to have a realistic livelihood.

The best way to counter idealism is to start doing whatever you have idealistic expectations of. Once you start doing it and experiencing it, the pragmatism comes.

Do a little research before jumping into a system but don’t do so much that you are waiting a long time before jumping in.

Book : chicken tractor - Paul doesn’t like that approach. https://www.amazon.com/Chicken-Tractor-Permaculture-Healthy-Homestead/dp/0984338209/ref=pd_sbs_14_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=GYF6422VEJJAXWKQJWET

Round 5: Undefined Context
https://youtu.be/e06vIvkBcR8

Holistic Management by Allan Savory - how do you know you are accomplishing your goals if you haven’t even written down your goals to begin with.
https://www.amazon.com/Holistic-Management-Third-Commonsense-Environment/dp/161091743X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1489325701&sr=1-1&keywords=Holistic+Management+by+Allan+Savory

If your new to this stuff, creating many lists and mind mapping can be very helpful. There is also something to be said about an artistic approach. Try different things and see what kind of paths present themselves. Allan Savory seems to poo-poo this approach.
Paul admits this is not the most monetary positive path.

Permaculture is a design science. You think about and plan what you will be doing before implementing.

Permaculture is giving a gift to your future self. It is a lot of hard work up front but can lead to a lifestyle of very minimal work in the future.

How chickens should be raised… Paul’s perspective.

Round 6: The Myth of the Perfect permaculture Place or Farm
https://youtu.be/sHcK383hT14

Book: Finding and Buying Your Place in the Country by Les and Carol Scher (updated year 2000 edition)
https://www.amazon.com/Finding-Buying-Your-Place-Country/dp/0793141095/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1489326031&sr=1-1&keywords=finding+and+buying+your+place+in+the+country+les+scher

Purchasing the wrong property or getting into permaculture after you have already purchased a piece of property.

Paul talks about buying too small of a piece of property. Starting a garden, then upgrading to more land, then running out of land and upgrading again.

Buying a great piece of property and then hating the culture in the area. A good way to judge if there are many like-minded people around you is to visit the local farmers market.

It is sometimes nice to start from scratch after you have learned permaculture and maximized the space you are currently in.

Round 7: Lack of Commitment
https://youtu.be/tiImjpfJHtk

Common to get into farming while working another job. A lot of times this will burn you out and is a great cause of the Lack of Commitment issue.

How getting into farming can destroy relationships. One person is loving it and can’t get enough while the other wants to go back to relaxing and missing the old lifestyle.

Irresponsible to run a farm and not think about it every day, living it and engaged with it.

Round 8: Lack of Planning
https://youtu.be/Q7888uPPzuA

People often fail to make time for planning. A lack of focus on business is a major shortfall in permaculture.

Nothing is wrong with capitalism in permaculture if you are trying to make a living.

You might not have to focus entirely on capitalism but you may be to the point where you need very little to get by and a little capitalism from your excess produce to pay for the minimal lifestyle is okay.

A lot of people want money but don’t want to do any work. This seems to be a growing trend in western civilization.

Another issue is debt. People will put themselves into massive amounts of debt and then feel overwhelmed by the amount of work that is going into paying off that debt or interest on the debt.

Legal partnership success is very rare. Collaboration is much more effective in most cases. Many short collaborations are often easier and more successful than long-term commitments. Obligations are all resolved quickly and if it works out well, do it again.

Round 9: Find Your Inspiration through Internships
https://youtu.be/3CgGdL9XLN0

Spend a season working at an established farm like Ben Falks farm and not at Paul’s farm if you are looking for great inspiration. Ben’s place is well established and can show you what to look forward to. Paul’s farm is just in the beginning phases of establishment.

Ben Falk’s farm: http://www.wholesystemsdesign.com/


Paul discusses new systems that still need to be implemented into the Wheaton Labs property.

Many successful farms phase out the opportunities available to fully immerse themselves into those properties because the farms simply no longer need to bring in many people to help build the farm up. Get in while you can.

Interning at these farms provides you with the opportunity to see what is possible and to see if you are up to doing all of the work that needs to be done.

Doing the work isn’t something you want to just give up on. A lot of the physical limitations you have go away after you have worked for a while and gain the muscle memory needed. You will learn more about yourself by sticking it out.

Most people that go and internship will come in with expectations of sticking it out but then after a couple of hours or a couple of days give up.

Round 10: Fear in the Unknown and Lack of Financial Capital
https://youtu.be/Pn0rCCN-zyU

Our ever-changing lifestyles can cause fear in getting into something that requires long term thought and dedication like raising livestock. Spend 3-4 seasons working on a farm before starting your own.

There are no magic answers to getting the capital required for starting your farm. There are other ways to get into this.

Look into creating complimentary enterprises (or fiefdoms) on existing farms. Many farmers are very open to people coming onto their property and starting their own enterprise that meshes with what the farmer is already doing. For example, a farmer may be buying a lot of compost and if you have a business plan that benefits the farm by creating and selling compost it will be enticing to the farmer.

It is more beneficial to the farmer to have complimentary enterprises running on their property by people who enjoy doing those enterprises more than the farmer does.
 
Jen Gira
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-just wanted to say I am enjoying these a lot. I'm dancing as fast as I can on my own permaculture project (nightmare?heaven? ha) and I am hoping to find time in the next couple evenings to further support both projects (Patreon, and the Permaethos) even if I can't participate all the time. (I've already bought stuff that I've watched (or really wanted to watch) but in my opinion, sending a few extra dollars someone's way doing something (and putting in the great effort) is worth the $$, even if I am too exhausted at the end of the day to watch/listen. ha

I am unsure if the consensus of the live podcast viewers was on the name, but I like "smackdown"- it reminds me of that hilarious "punch out" nintendo game that kids played when I was very small, except in this circumstance, you're launching flowers and hairy vetch at each other digitally-seems a good upgrade from the 1980s version.

this post had no point except to send good vibes.

thanks for all the hard work

 
Josiah Wallingford
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Here is Episode 5.



I apologize for the lack of description. I will go back in and edit it as soon as I have the description ready. I have been extremely busy and unable to get to it! I also need the description for the petv pose and for the youtube post.
If you guys love the show I would love some help and we could have some fun with it...

1. Come up with a catchy title.
2. Write up a show description.

If you guys do this, I will pick the best one and use it as well as mention it on tomorrows show.

If you don't want to help, fine, be that way. Just kidding. Thank you all for your support!
 
paul wheaton
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Josiah,

If I remember correctly, a select few (including my patreon peeps) get access where they can type stuff we can see as record.  And there are people that can see it live - and you were saying something like thousands of people were watching it live.  And that is a free thing, right?   How do people find that?

And then, the whole thing goes up to youtube sometime later for free for everybody.  Right?

 
Josiah Wallingford
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paul wheaton wrote:Josiah,

If I remember correctly, a select few (including my patreon peeps) get access where they can type stuff we can see as record.  And there are people that can see it live - and you were saying something like thousands of people were watching it live.  And that is a free thing, right?   How do people find that?

And then, the whole thing goes up to youtube sometime later for free for everybody.  Right?



The patrion peeps and PermaEthos students get access to watch live and comment and come on to video and talk with us. The chat from patrion peeps and PE students is recorded during the show.

We also stream the live show to facebook live. They can watch that at either the PermaEthos Facebook Page or the Permaculture Smackdown Facebook Page.
People can comment on the facebook live stream but priority goes to the patrion peeps and the PE students.

After the show is over I do any quick editing that needs to be done to the recording and then post it up onto the PermaEthos youtube channel Permaculture Smackdown Playlist.

Then, I go through and cut the video into segments called "Round by Round". I then upload those to the PermaEthos Youtube Channel Permaculture Smackdown Playlist.

Usually while I am doing the Round by Round clips is when I do the writeup and resource links. I then copy the whole thing and put it into the full show notes and the individual rounds onto each round on youtube.

Then, I create the PETV Permaculture Smackdown post with the audio version (for the podcast) and the show notes and embed the videos.

There you have the life of a Permaculture Smackdown episode.
 
Jen Gira
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Ok. Put my money where my mouth is and became both a Patreon Patron of Paul and I purchased Josiah's video presentations on PermaEthos. Chances of getting into log in live are slim to none, (HA!) but hopefully I can sometime soon. Good Vibes are Great, and Can do a lot, but a little bit some other green substance helps too. Off topic, but I was really happy to see how popular the PDC coming up is, and the funds it has raised. I do think that if more folks, even if it is just $20 a month, contribute to the community and community members-more individuals can see growth, and more aspects of the population can embrace some/(or hopefully a lot) of the concepts.

I am noticing some happy growth in social media, and was utterly and wonderfully shocked, when a musician friend post to her FB page about attending a permaculture workshop in New Orleans. With a reach of about 25,000 folks (or more) even if 50 googled "permaculture"- or checked it out themselves- that's a great step forward.


I'm only posting this to *encourage* others to do so. -Giving Paul some $ a month (you can even cap what you contribute, so it works with a budget) and subscribing to Josiah's video series (and others), cost me about the price of one nice dinner out.

-I can cook like a banshee, and so that "dinner.drinks out" was definitely better spent elsewhere. In my mind that green stuff just kind of goes, so when I feel I have some control over where it goes, I put it in places that I think matter. It still seems to go, fly away, (and laugh as it flies) anyways.

I've peeped up a few times ( and yes, sometimes to not most polite responses honestly) to grumbling ( and being empathetic-perhaps understandably struggling in some way) organic, permie, biodynamic-y folks, trying to buy their own land-y folks, broke and ornery folks-
You don't have to be rich or flush to contribute- Just Forgo 4 of those large growlers of beer for two weeks, and help build an *infrastructure* of not only good souls- but competent to teach and expand the skill set of others. (IMPORTANT) I guarantee every cent I put forward to good things/good people- I got back 100fold.


putting-flowers-in-cops-guns.jpg
[Thumbnail for putting-flowers-in-cops-guns.jpg]
 
Josiah Wallingford
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Jen Gira wrote:Ok. Put my money where my mouth is and became both a Patreon Patron of Paul and I purchased Josiah's video presentations on PermaEthos. Chances of getting into log in live are slim to none, (HA!) but hopefully I can sometime soon. Good Vibes are Great, and Can do a lot, but a little bit some other green substance helps too. Off topic, but I was really happy to see how popular the PDC coming up is, and the funds it has raised. I do think that if more folks, even if it is just $20 a month, contribute to the community and community members-more individuals can see growth, and more aspects of the population can embrace some/(or hopefully a lot) of the concepts.

I am noticing some happy growth in social media, and was utterly and wonderfully shocked, when a musician friend post to her FB page about attending a permaculture workshop in New Orleans. With a reach of about 25,000 folks (or more) even if 50 googled "permaculture"- or checked it out themselves- that's a great step forward.


I'm only posting this to *encourage* others to do so. -Giving Paul some $ a month (you can even cap what you contribute, so it works with a budget) and subscribing to Josiah's video series (and others), cost me about the price of one nice dinner out.

-I can cook like a banshee, and so that "dinner.drinks out" was definitely better spent elsewhere. In my mind that green stuff just kind of goes, so when I feel I have some control over where it goes, I put it in places that I think matter. It still seems to go, fly away, (and laugh as it flies) anyways.

I've peeped up a few times ( and yes, sometimes to not most polite responses honestly) to grumbling ( and being empathetic-perhaps understandably struggling in some way) organic, permie, biodynamic-y folks, trying to buy their own land-y folks, broke and ornery folks-
You don't have to be rich or flush to contribute- Just Forgo 4 of those large growlers of beer for two weeks, and help build an *infrastructure* of not only good souls- but competent to teach and expand the skill set of others. (IMPORTANT) I guarantee every cent I put forward to good things/good people- I got back 100fold.




Thank you Jen, your support is much appreciated!
 
Jen Gira
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Thank you Jen, your support is much appreciated!


I just hope others bite the bullet, enter the ring, smackdown, etc.
ha ha.

my best
 
2017 Permaculture Design Course at Wheaton Labs
http://richsoil.com/pdc
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