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paul wheaton
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Gappers are "goofy about permaculture". Some folks come for just a tour, some folks come to be in the bootcamp a couple days ... some people come and they are still here years later.



A gapper forks over a $100 gapper fee and then we will work with them to make all the arrangements for them to come out. We will arrange a bunk, maybe a spot to pitch a tent, but we do have proper bunks too (especially for winter).



Update: For families and groups, the price is $100 for the first person and $20 for each person after that.



As a gapper you get the following candy

  • a tour of basecamp (1.5 to 2 hours)
  • a tour of the lab (1.5 to 2 hours)
  • We have had some gappers here that have seriously cashed in on some bounties (when bounties are available). One gapper earned about $3000 in one month.
  • We have had some gappers here that have casually cashed in on some bounties (when bounties are available). They would take something that they had never done before and it would take a long time to do it, but in the end, they got it done and harvest a bit of coin too.
  • access to potlucks and "feast night".
  • access to movie night in the classroom on the couch balcony complete with free organic popcorn.
  • sometimes you can meet permaculture celebrities that stop by or are teaching here: Ernie and Erica Wisner, the leading innovators in rocket mass heaters; Willie Smits (the global leader in large-scale permaculture); Owen Hablutzel, jack spirko, Peter van den Berg, Tim Barker, Matt Walker, Marjory Wildcraft, Thomas Elpel, Helen Atthowe, Jacqueline and Joseph Freeman, Dave Hunter and mike oehler have been here; Neil Bertrando might come by... A dozen authors have said they plan to visit this year.
  • bring a tent and stay a night
  • Once the gapper fee is paid, you can come back later and you don't need to pay another gapper fee
  • We provide a ride to/from the missoula airport ($15 for reasonable hours and $35 for wacky hours)
  • the gapper program does not include food or a bunk, but the bootcamp program does ....




Some gappers choose to be in our permaculture bootcamp. This is a structured program with a rich list of experiences each week. Come for a day, or a week, or longer. One person came for a few weeks and ended up staying for years - he now runs the bootcamp. If you stay in the bootcamp long enough, we give you access to some of our events or even an acre of land. If you come for the bootcamp, you get:

  • a place to pitch a tent. We will find you a warm bunk in winter, or provide a tent and maybe a sleeping bag in the warmer months.
  • harvest and eat from the many gardens that have been planted to feed boots/gappers in past year.
  • plant and tend gardens for future boots/gappers
  • wildcrafting
  • private access to large patches of forest service land
  • maybe you will get to drive an electric vehicle, a tractor, an excavator, a big kenworth dump truck, a fire truck, learn to drive something towing a trailer ... backwards ... etc.
  • there is a very good chance that if you are here a while, you will experience





You can come for an hour, a day, a night .... maybe even a couple of nights. Maybe do the bootcamp thing to stay a bit longer.





Just to be clear (and, yes, we know that this will eliminate 98% of the people thinking about coming here): No tobacco, pot or illegal drugs on this land. Small amounts of hooch are no big deal.



Supervised children are okay, although there would need to be a gapper fee for each kid.





The gapper fee includes one set of rides to and from the airport or bus station for $15 for "reasonable hours" and $35 for after 9pm and before 8am.



Our sepper program is a lot like the gapper program. In the sepper program you get a really nice bunk and you get to choose your permaculture experiences - if any. A sepper can watch the clouds pass all day long, every day. More about the sepper program here.






Ask questions in this thread. When you are ready, send $100 (plus $20 for each additional person) via paypal to paul at richsoil.com (or bitcoin: 177pNU2a9iCpUXQwXX9EbtA2UwZpgeqcMT ) and somebody here will contact you via email.

Maybe you just want to come for the tour. Maybe you want stay forever. Maybe after some back and forth emails about your cat you decide you don't want to come. For all of these situations, the gapper fee is the same. If you decide not to come, we just made some easy coin.






A winter tour a couple of years ago:





To give you an idea of what the tyrant here is like:



Here's more than a hundred videos of mine to give you more of an idea: https://www.youtube.com/user/paulwheaton12/videos



And a few hundred podcasts: http://www.permies.com/forums/f-88/podcast



And a whole forum just about stuff that we do here: http://www.permies.com/forums/f-102/labs



Some articles I wrote: http://richsoil.com



And a collection of forums: http://www.permies.com/forums



Occupy Monsanto calls me The Bad Boy of Permaculture. geoff lawton, the guy we turn to for clarity and definition of permaculture, calls me The Duke of Permaculture. I have given away more free information on permaculture than all other permaculture people combined. And there is lots more to do.





 
Thomas Partridge
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I like it. The system handles the issue with unproductive gappers without discouraging hard working gappers.

If the tobacco, pot, and drugs prohibition really drives off even 50% of people that would have been interested then I think that says more about the community than the validity of the prohibition. Does the tobacco prohibition include chewing or dipping tobacco?
 
paul wheaton
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Charles Kleff wrote: Does the tobacco prohibition include chewing or dipping tobacco?


It does.

I like the idea that other permies will buy the surrounding properties and each permie can set the standard for what they think is optimal.
 
Lee Daniels
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Is the gapper fee per visit, per year,....?

I would be driving over. If all was peachy, I would make multiple visits.

I'm very interested in learning more about permaculture and rocket mass heating/cooking systems. Hands on experience is the best kind.
 
paul wheaton
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Lee Daniels wrote:Is the gapper fee per visit, per year,....?

I would be driving over. If all was peachy, I would make multiple visits.

I'm very interested in learning more about permaculture and rocket mass heating/cooking systems. Hands on experience is the best kind.


The gapper fee is forever. It is mostly to answer questions for the first visit, rides to and from the airport/bus, the tour, getting them up to speed, etc. We've also had some issues with having to clean up after gappers, so it goes to paying people to clean up after the gappers that were less than tidy.

 
paul wheaton
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Lee Daniels wrote:
I'm very interested in learning more about permaculture and rocket mass heating/cooking systems. Hands on experience is the best kind.


I cannot guarantee any particular kind of experience, but we do have a lot of rocket mass heaters, and we also have several rocket stoves for cooking.

 
Curtis Budka
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Hi Paul, I'm the one who you said you might like to have me come out to the land and see what happenes in the 2015 paid positions thread, if that is of any significance.

Since then, I found the thread Evan the ant started when he was back in NH. I saw that he was doing a lot of the stuff that you are doing. This interested me because I could probably learn to do Wheaton style permaculture a lot closer to home.

The place where Evan was staying is Bardo Farm. Their focus is not permaculture, but it seems that they are very open to permaculture projects. Based on info I could find online (other than Evan's posts on here), I never would have considered going there based on their practices, but that information is sort of old and it sounds like permaculture minded people have helped make the shift a little.

This place is also much more established and it sounds like there are lots of people there that know stuff, like auto maintenence and other essential skills that might not be very permaculture-ish.

The reason why I was leaning towards Bardot was because I figured I could go there for a year or two for a work/stay agreement to learn how to do the basics, like building huglekulture, etc. And then go to your farm and hopefully hit the ground running. Because of this, I've put the podcasts on hold.

Now, it seems like you are moving out of the thinking phase and into the implementation phase. The reason I'm drawn towards your place is because it seems like your doing the most interesting projects the at the highest permaculture standards-- I don't want to miss anything.

Thoughts?
 
August Hurtel
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Is there a particular time frame when you need people the most?
 
Jocelyn Campbell
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August Hurtel wrote:Is there a particular time frame when you need people the most?

Great question! Yes!

In the super weeks thread, Paul proposed:

may 11-17

june 15-21

july 20-26 (permies.com staff)

august 24-30


These weeks will primarily be about support of ants and the ant village stuff. Read more about it in the super weeks thread.

If people come out at the same time, is means we can have pot lucks, cross-pollination, tours, maybe even some impromptu workshops and other cool stuff for the group that might not really happen for just one or two gappers.

Content minimized. Click to view
 
paul wheaton
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Curtis,

As of this moment, we have three people actively working to build stuff. One ant, one ant-to-be and one deep roots person. I think there is a lot of opportunity to learn from any of these three. Does this answer your question?
 
Curtis Budka
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Sort of, I'm not sure what I want my question to be. Do you think it would be worth it to wait and gain some basic skills first and then come out to the land (probably missing out on all kinds of projects), or maybe it would be better to just go there but be a little less useful for a bit in terms of knowing stuff?

I'm probably over thinking this.

Also, I noticed that right before PV2, was the last time I saw any posts by a gapper/gapperish person (except for Olenka today). Did Sam, Jesse, Mike, and Violet leave?
 
paul wheaton
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Curtis Budka wrote:Sort of, I'm not sure what I want my question to be. Do you think it would be worth it to wait and gain some basic skills first and then come out to the land (probably missing out on all kinds of projects), or maybe it would be better to just go there but be a little less useful for a bit in terms of knowing stuff?


the answer to this question is the same as the answer to nearly all questions: it depends. It depends on hundreds of variables about who you are, it depends on when you come, it depends on who is here at that time, and it depends on the hundreds of variables about who those people are.

I think it is possible for somebody to come out with no skills and be of great value and learn a lot. Possible.


Also, I noticed that right before PV2, was the last time I saw any posts by a gapper/gapperish person (except for Olenka today). Did Sam, Jesse, Mike, and Violet leave?


As of this moment, here is the full list of people here:

Me, Jocelyn, Evan and Nick. Brian should be here any minute. I think there are about seven other people that will arrive in the next few weeks.

 
Chris DeBoer
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paul wheaton wrote:

As of this moment, here is the full list of people here:

Me, Jocelyn, Evan and Nick. Brian should be here any minute. I think there are about seven other people that will arrive in the next few weeks.



For some reason I assumed there was way more...I suppose that's a good thing and means a lot more are coming.... Just listened to the podcast you put out a couple days ago...nuff said

Does much go on in the winter at the labs?


My brother is studying forestry and applied restoration at University of Montana and .... been trying to get him to go over and check your place out...

I'm takin' over 74 acres (family owned) in CO (so I'll have my hands full) Looks like I might have to drag him and we'll both find out what "Paul's plans for world domination" are all about for ourselves!
 
paul wheaton
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Winter: lots of rocket mass heater stuff; lots of sawmill stuff; build skiddable structures; equipment repair; planning ... it seems that winter is one of the busiest times.
 
Lee Daniels
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--- Gapper Meals - Bringing food --


I would like to know if refrigeration is available for food I would bring? I'd like to bring enough for a week

I'd also like some clarification on allowed meat. I'm going to try to bring venison, but how "Organic" would beef need to be? Is normal grass fed, farm raised ok? These cows walked around in the field their whole life. They would have been fed some kind of feed (pelleted something) along with their winter hay.

Chicken eggs. I feed my chickens non-gmo layer feed from a local farmer/processor. My chickens have free access to a fenced yard, that I move every few weeks. One length of Premier poultry electric fence. I also let them loose each afternoon to roam around.


Anyone have food related suggestions? I'm looking for meals that are quick and easy. My thoughts are I'm going over to help out, not perfect my camping cooking skills. Less time cooking is more time working - or sitting on my ass watching the clouds go by. I talked with Evan yesterday. Once I get meals figured out, I'll be sending in the gapper fee.



Thanks, L. Daniels
 
paul wheaton
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Lee,

I just finished talking with Jocelyn. I think we can arrange for one fridge at basecamp to be for community use. After some discussion, we accepted that we will do this and just take on the expense of paying somebody to keep it clean.

Hopefully, we will get some wofati based cold storage set up at the lab sometime soon.

The food you proposed sounds fine.

 
Pam Marshall
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Hope gappers and ants community takes a turn for the better. Community can become the most rewarding part of anything, but the hardest too. The best that I can come up with when working with conflict is to work from my strengths. When I am not feeling strong I like to withdraw so I can make sure I understand and to contribute my best. When I return refreshed and working in strength problems are not magnified, but solutions are. So.....whether it be gappers or ants or ... gapper ants or deep or shallow roots I support the gapper concept of goofy about permaculture. Our strengths of goofy about permaculture will get us through this and more. Blessings and encouragement and insight thoughts coming your way folks.
 
Michael Cox
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Lee - re food without refrigeration...


When I'm going to be camping/hiking for more than 48 hour i dehydrate my own complete meals in advance. Just add boiling water and they are ready to eat in 10 minutes. Flavour is as good as a fresh cooked meal at home but you also have control over portion size and ingredients.
 
Curtis Budka
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A few more questions.

Podcasts:
I'm excluding the ones that are book reviews until I actually read those parts of Gias garden and Sepp's book. Is there still a 90% requirement and is it boolean? I average about 3 per day and I am currently listening to 073 as I write this, so I think I might be able to get close to 90% (in order to arrive before the PDC starts, I am willing to pay the $400), but what if I don't? Sure, this is based only on an honor system, but, I think the last thing you want right now is another dishonest person. Besides the most recently released podcasts about the wheaton labs changes and the ones listed in this thread ( http://www.permies.com/t/24763/labs/top-podcasts ), are there any that really stand out at you as most important? I also think it is worth mentioning that I watch this forum almost exclusivel and I have watched almost all (if not all) of your videos.

Access to tools:
How comprehensive do you intend the gapper tool library to be? What if the sawmill (or some other expensive tool that it wouldn't make sense to have more than one of) is required for a project? I'm going to assume that 'limited access to the house' includes the shop?

Shelter and stuff:
I'm fine with a tent...until a wind storm render's it useless, or until winter. Could a RMH/pocket rocket be put in a debris hut? The concept of a debris hut in words doesn't seem very appealing--- I keep thinking of a lean-to covered with leaves and branches (even though that's not really what you described in that thread http://www.permies.com/t/24288/labs/debris-hut ). BUT, I looked at the pictures that other's posted of slightly different ideas and it doesn't seem like it would be much different from living in the tipi. Is there a grounded outlet connected to solar on the lab that I could charge a laptop with? I know that there are little backpack panels for phones/tablets that one can buy, but I don't think there is anything affordable that could charge a laptop.

Food:
I know that you agreed to allowing the use of a fridge at basecamp, but can other food be stored in wofati 0.7 (or somewhere else) to keep bears, etc. out of it?

That's all I can think of right now, thanks.
 
paul wheaton
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Is there still a 90% requirement and is it boolean?


At this time, gappers don't have to listen to the podcasts. Ants can pay the $800, but they cannot start on a plot until they have listened to 240 podcasts.


I average about 3 per day


FWIW: Evan had something where he could listen to the podcasts at double speed.


Food can be stored in the wofati.

No more pocket rockets allowed here. But a rocket mass heater is fine.

I think it is possible to charge stuff with our solar gear, but it would need to be under the supervision of an ant or deep roots person.

 
Curtis Budka
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Paul mentioned how there is a lot of food in the surrounding forest land if one is willing to look/hunt/fish for it in podcast 323. A non-resident MT license is prohibitively expensive (particularly for hunting) and a resident license cannot be purchased until you can declare MT residency after 180 days- that's 6 months. However, does one need a license for anything that doesn't have a season?

Is there a pressure canner available?
 
Kristen Tabor
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Curtis Budka wrote:Paul mentioned how there is a lot of food in the surrounding forest land if one is willing to look/hunt/fish for it in podcast 323. A non-resident MT license is prohibitively expensive (particularly for hunting) and a resident license cannot be purchased until you can declare MT residency after 180 days- that's 6 months. However, does one need a license for anything that doesn't have a season?

Is there a pressure canner available?


Alright, I would love to start out as a Gapper, to build fundamental skills. Are you accepting gappers right now? (How about 3 weeks from now?)
Drugs, smoking, none of that appiles to me and I am a VERY good worker. I would love to see what projects you guys are up to!
 
paul wheaton
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Are you accepting gappers right now? (How about 3 weeks from now?)


Yes and yes.

One small hitch is the free pdc:

http://www.permies.com/t/46645/labs/Free-PDC-deep-roots-ants

When the free pdc is going on, it is free to gappers that have been here for at least four weeks before the pdc starts. So they would need to be here on or before May 24. So, just to be clear, you won't be able to attend the free pdc. Of course, the instructor is allowing folks to take the pdc for $400 if they have not met the 4 week requirement.
 
Kristen Tabor
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Of course, but that's actually funny. (If just that would change my mind)
if I go, it will actually be in june.
Just to clarify, a Gapper can stay and learn for free by helping around, and unless they are not picking up after themselves so to speak, you probably won't ask them to leave? (aka, can I really learn something there?)
 
Cassie Langstraat
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Kristen Tabor wrote:Of course, but that's actually funny. (If just that would change my mind)
if I go, it will actually be in june.
Just to clarify, a Gapper can stay and learn for free by helping around, and unless they are not picking up after themselves so to speak, you probably won't ask them to leave? (aka, can I really learn something there?)


I think it would be a really good idea for you to listen to the last 8 podcasts that were just released in the past few weeks. They explain the gapper situation and the ant village very well.

http://www.permies.com/t/46399/permaculture-podcast/Podcast-Wheaton-Laboratory-Update-Part
http://www.permies.com/t/46620/permaculture-podcast/Podcast-Wheaton-Laboratory-Update-Part
http://www.permies.com/t/46703/permaculture-podcast/Podcast-Wheaton-Laboratory-Update-Part
http://www.permies.com/t/46765/permaculture-podcast/Podcast-Gapper-Problems
http://www.permies.com/t/46826/permaculture-podcast/Podcast-Transition-Ant-Village-Part
http://www.permies.com/t/46921/permaculture-podcast/Podcast-Transition-Ant-Village-Part
http://www.permies.com/t/47010/permaculture-podcast/Podcast-Ant-Village-Explained-Part
http://www.permies.com/t/47063/permaculture-podcast/Podcast-Ant-Village-Explained-Part
 
paul wheaton
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Kristen Tabor wrote:
Just to clarify, a Gapper can stay and learn for free by helping around, and unless they are not picking up after themselves so to speak, you probably won't ask them to leave? (aka, can I really learn something there?)


I will ask people to leave for any or no reason. And I reserve the right to be utterly crazy and make up bizarre reasons.

The red queen has a certain style in this space:



As for learning stuff here: you might want to look at the threads in this forum. Or listen to the more recent podcasts.

But the key is that a workshop (or a pdc) is where there will be intentional stuff that smells a lot like education. The gapper program is more like: there is education all around the the place, but if you lie back and watch the clouds pass, you probably won't get as much education as if you helped the ants to achieve their goals. Plus, there are projects where people are getting paid - you could either take one on, or help somebody else that is taking one on. Maybe you get actual cash money - or maybe you build some small experience. (or maybe you get the education that you suck at this stuff, so you should try again)

Someday we might have some full time formal education stuff - something with actual teaching and experiences that are designed to educate. But we will probably charge huge tracts of cashola for that. For now, we don't have that. For now, we have the gapper program, where you are mostly on your own to learn bits and bobs through each day. Or not.


 
Kristen Tabor
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I've got my plans in place then (September, when my lease ends) And I have been looking at them! (what I'll probably spend all day doing) Thanks for the information and advice!
 
Emily McCall
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Is there a maximum or minimum amount of time you will host gappers, and are you open to hosting any in early spring?
 
Fred Tyler
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Emily,
from earlier in this thread:
paul wheaton wrote:

You can come for an hour, a week, a month, a year ... whatever cooks your chicken. You can leave at any time you want, and, of course, I can ask you to leave at any time I want.



Early spring is the perfect time to come if you want to help plant stuff. Otherwise, i'm sure there will be other projects going on.
 
Kai Duby
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I am just about ready to put down my $100 and head on up to Montana but I'm wondering if a tiny truck camper would be acceptable living quarters up at the lab. I've been living out of it for a few weeks and since I don't use electricity or propane it's basically a big box tent in a pick up bed. Would parking it somewhere out of the way but close by be alright?
 
paul wheaton
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Parking it at Basecamp is not a problem. Parking it at the lab is OK for a while.

 
paul wheaton
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It is now November 2015. We have winter bunks and we have winter projects.

In about a week, we will get ten bicycles, a full bicycle toolshop and a full load of bicycle parts.

Kai is taking on tasks of creating the fence for a community garden, plus building a skiddable shed for storing fresh cut lumber. And then there will be lots of sawmill action.

There are cobbing chores in allerton abbey. There are rocket heater and rocket mass heater projects. There are some conventional building projects in the shop and office. We could use somebody with electrician skills for some things. There is the overhaul of the electric tractor (fair bit of welding). The rocket hot tub needs a little more work. We could use more of those wood burnt signs.

The list goes on and on.

Fred and I talked earlier today and we hope to expand this list soon.
 
Ben Skiba
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Hello Mr. and Mrs.Wheaton,

My name is Ben Skiba I am very much interested in gapping at wheaton labs in the spring.april-may whenever you'll have me.I've listened to 100 podcasts and watched alot of videos More videos on Sepp who's my hero.I just like growing things building things tinkering and feel wheaton labs is the closest thing their is to seppin it.Anyway I wanna get the process started.Wanted to make sure you were still accepting gappers and what not.

-B
 
paul wheaton
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bee chicken hugelkultur trees wofati woodworking
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Yup,

Send $100 via paypal to paul at richsoil.com. We will then have somebody coordinate with you to get you here, give you the tour, make sure you have a winter bunk (if you arrive pre-tent-season) and connect you with projects.

 
Scott Dietrich
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WOW! Found this the other day! I am very interested! Listening to podcasts trying to get caught up! Sounds like you all are on the right track! It would be an honor to work with you folks, learning permaculture technics. I AM READY TO WORK! I am thinking quite soon first 2 weeks of january. Talk soon!
 
Scott Dietrich
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I AM SO READY TO COME OUT THERE AND PITCH IN HOW EVER I CAN! One problem i am having trouble confirming my bank account on paypal. is there another way I can get you the $100
 
paul wheaton
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Scott Dietrich wrote: is there another way I can get you the $100


Bitcoin

Dwolla

An amazon gift card could work too. We drop a lot of coin at amazon.
 
Scott Dietrich
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I just sent you an email sir! I was wondering if my 2015 nissian versa 2 wheel drive will make it to property?
 
If you are using a wood chipper, you are doing it wrong. Even on this tiny ad:
Permaculture Playing Cards by Paul Wheaton and Alexander Ojeda
https://permies.com/wiki/57503/digital-market/digital-market/Permaculture-Playing-Cards-Paul-Wheaton
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