• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies living kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • raven ranson
  • paul wheaton
  • Jocelyn Campbell
  • Julia Winter
stewards:
  • Burra Maluca
  • Devaka Cooray
  • Bill Erickson
garden masters:
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Bryant RedHawk
  • Mike Jay
gardeners:
  • Joseph Lofthouse
  • Dan Boone
  • Daron Williams

Hurt Pretty Bad Yesterday in my Woodland  RSS feed

 
pollinator
Posts: 2133
300
books cat chicken duck rabbit transportation trees woodworking
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
If there was a "Safety Spot" sub-forum, I think I would be the only one posting...

I got hurt pretty bad again today while out in my woodland yesterday. I bring this latest injury up because it is a situation that occurs all the time, and the remedy is easy, but I have never had this result before.

Anyway I was picking up my "hardwood tops" which are the top parts of the logs after logging out the Hardwood Logs earlier in the week. I had all 7 tops on behind me and was negotiating a pretty steep turn and the longest log wedged BEHIND a live tree on the frontish end, and in FRONT of a live tree on the very end of the log. Since this was a full cord of wood tree length, the skidder was having trouble forcing the twitch to make the turn, and that tree way in back was preventing it. We are talking front end off the ground, winch chattering, wheels spinning struggle here, and we all know that leads to cable breakage on a skidder.

Only 3 feet of the log was jammed and kept from making the turn by this live tree, so the obvious way to fix the situation it to cut the log just in front of the live tree. Yeah you lose a few feet of log, but really what is a few pounds not going to the paper mill?

So I keep carefully cutting the front of the log so the tremendous pressure is eased off. I keep doing this and the log bows a bit, Figuring I am good to go, I take my saw and cut the back part so the end will be cut off and the log will swing around...away from me. I no more than touch the saw to the wood and the tree explodes in half, the main part of the log swings around away from me like it should and like the rocket I knew it would, but the last few feet of the log ricochets off the standing live tree too, and takes me out at the shins. I flip into the air and land flat out on the ground on my stomach. It happened so fast and so hard that it knocks the wind out of me, not to mention making me feel like my left leg is broken. I can't get up for the longest time, the pain and shock hitting me, and here are my options I am thinking: a skidder with a full twitch on and 1/2 mile hike out of the woods...with a broken leg. GREAT!

It wasn't though as I found out later, just some major cuts from the bark, and a wide black and blue where it took me out across both legs, but man did it hurt. I was really hoping it would rain so I would not have to cut anymore, but the rain held off until noon so I kept cutting wood. I hobbled a bit and took it easy, and did NOT go down into a ravine i was working on the day before; I will save those tops for another day, but man did/does that ever hurt.

So be careful in this situation if you are out cutting wood in your woodlands. It happens a lot while cutting tree length wood, but as I said, in cutting for the last 30 years, I never had this happen before.

(PS: I know, no pictures it never happened, but trust me, you will want to see Katie's legs more than mine)
 
gardener
Posts: 1187
Location: Middle Tennessee
181
books cat chicken food preservation homestead cooking purity trees
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Man that's scary. I'm glad your legs aren't broken. To me it's one of those reminders of the ever present dangers of the homestead, you couldn't have predicted that sort of thing. Glad you're gonna be alright man.
 
gardener
Posts: 7392
Location: Victoria British Columbia-Canada
402
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I don't usually deal with large would like that. Whenever something of mine does come down in a situation where I think there might be a lot of spring, I use my cordless, Long Reach pole saw. I can reach in with that, and alleviate pressure, without the risk of being slapped.

When I was 22, I bought a whole bush full of hardwood tops, near Lucknow Ontario Canada. One of those tops was lying on a quite large, Shagbark Hickory, that was bent in an arc. The moment I touched, the Hickory, some split away, so I knew that it was under amazing tension. I reached in with one hand, after clearing some of the debris away, and cut that tree. The Hickory sprung straight up, and catapulted hundreds of pounds of debris, 50 feet in the air and over 100 ft horizontally. That is the most dangerous thing that I have ever done with a chainsaw, and I have not repeated it.
 
pollinator
Posts: 1793
Location: Wisconsin, zone 4
92
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
"If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all"  Man Travis, you have been having a bad run.  I sincerely hope things get better for you soon.  Glad you didn't get hurt worse.  I think I speak for much of the forum when I say, yes, truly, we would rather see Katie's legs than yours
 
garden master
Posts: 4785
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
540
books chicken dog duck fish forest garden fungi homestead hugelkultur hunting pig
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Unfortunately I too know that pain Travis.  What I do now is use a pair of Shin guards (baseball catcher) they don't stop all the pain from a shin whack but they sure do help keep the bleeding down to a minimum.
In a worst case scenario (like you describe) they would probably keep you from getting a break, or huge scrape. I used to use Biker Chaps but they don't do much at all, since I went to Shin Guards I have fewer new leg scars.

Redhawk
 
Posts: 46
Location: Oklahoma - Zone 6b today 7a tomorrow
5
chicken food preservation forest garden
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The hardest concept I've ever had to make myself really embrace:


Every injury is preventable.

 
gardener
Posts: 2169
Location: Fraser River Headwaters, Zone3, Lat: 53N, Altitude 2750', Boreal/Temperate Rainforest-transition
239
bike books food preservation forest garden fungi hugelkultur solar trees woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Holy Crap Travis!  How many of your nine lives are you going to burn up this year, you wildcat.  As always, Godspeed to your recovery, and best wishes on your health.  I once had a large branch that was under a tree spring up when I was limbing two trees at once.  The branch took the saw right out of my hands, it had so much force.  Scared the living crap out of me.  I was fortunate to be in a position on the other side of the tree that the saw flew and the branch free of me.  The kind of tension that can be put on such trees is hard to comprehend until you see it's force in action.  I have a number of birch bent over under the tension of fallen pines that I look at with a great deal of trepidation.  The dead pine area of my forest is an intense game of pick up sticks that was invented by my physics instructor who is getting back at me for practical jokes. 

  you will want to see Katie's legs more than mine)

I think I speak for much of the forum when I say, yes, truly, we would rather see Katie's legs than yours 

  Lol.  Great comment Todd. 
 
Roberto pokachinni
gardener
Posts: 2169
Location: Fraser River Headwaters, Zone3, Lat: 53N, Altitude 2750', Boreal/Temperate Rainforest-transition
239
bike books food preservation forest garden fungi hugelkultur solar trees woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

use a pair of Shin guards (baseball catcher) they don't stop all the pain from a shin whack but they sure do help keep the bleeding down to a minimum.

  That is a great idea.  I have my North Face Mountain bike Gel shin pads that I could be wearing under my saw pants.

Every injury is preventable.

  There is a saying at my work.  "Nobody gets out of the truck, nobody gets hurt."  Reality dictates otherwise.  There is, however, a certain risk in life that everyone must take, for without risk life stagnates, but most every injury is indeed preventable--I can say that as an amputee and as a person who has put himself at risk in too many ways to mention.  It is often a thousand seemingly harmless little decisions that, in a hundred different combinations, we make daily that can result in an injury that seems random and out of our control.  We always have to remember to keep our head in the game; the smallest distraction can be extremely costly.  Don't take shortcuts.  The simplest bit of complacency can result in tragedy where I work on the railway, and such thinking as Roger has learned to embrace applies to almost anywhere, anytime.  
 
Travis Johnson
pollinator
Posts: 2133
300
books cat chicken duck rabbit transportation trees woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
As you guys know I do have cancer, and while I try to keep you up to date, I have seen Dr's everyday this week, with more to come soon. So it is impossible to say what Dr said what and when, but one thing I learned is that my Vitamin D levels are almost non-existent which causes extreme fatigue and confusion. I am in no way making excuses for not "having my head in the game" so to speak, but it's not. Considering 132 people out of 100,000 loggers die every year in logging accidents, it is the #1 dangerous profession and I am mulling over cancer treatment options and battling fatigue and confusion in a very chaotic arena where quick reaction times is critical. NOT GOOD!

I am not making excuses here at all guys, just stating the truth that it is not a good situation.

But I knew when I went farming full-time that this was what it would take. Yes it is nice to be home every day, get rid of my 1-1/2 hour commute, and be with my wife all the time, but it also means working and that a lack of health would be troublesome. I look at it as being like my forefathers who had to push through some tough times too. Hopefully now that I am on some serious Vitamin D intake, I will have more energy and less confusion.

 
Bryant RedHawk
garden master
Posts: 4785
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
540
books chicken dog duck fish forest garden fungi homestead hugelkultur hunting pig
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Travis, do get some good Vitamin D tablets or capsules (the bigger the dose the better and take double the recommended amount) (try to find Nature's Own brand they are the real deal) the more types of D the vitamin has the better.

Also see if you can get a prescription for B-12 injectable, that too will help your body cope and it will help with the energy loss.

Redhawk
 
Todd Parr
pollinator
Posts: 1793
Location: Wisconsin, zone 4
92
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
If you end up having chemo, Vitamin C to bowel saturation is supposed to have really good protective effects.  The studies I have read were done with IV vit C, so you would obviously have to work with your doctor.  The studies are pretty clear and numerous that Vit C has some tremendously important effects.  The doses that can be administered by IV are very, very high.  Even if you decide not to pursue that, I would certainly be taking as much Vit C powder as I could handle as many times a day as possible.  Your bowels will let you know when you have exceeded the maximum you can handle.
 
Roberto pokachinni
gardener
Posts: 2169
Location: Fraser River Headwaters, Zone3, Lat: 53N, Altitude 2750', Boreal/Temperate Rainforest-transition
239
bike books food preservation forest garden fungi hugelkultur solar trees woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

I am in no way making excuses for not "having my head in the game" so to speak, but it's not.

  I sure hope you didn't take offense to me mentioning all of those things, including not having your head in the game.  That was about everybody, everyday, everywhere; not about you specifically.  In your case, you are self admitting that your head is not in the game (and for very valid reasons); and that is certainly tough with the type of work you are doing.  I really feel for you Travis.  My only advice is that you slow everything down, and take that much longer to make decisions; which at least for myself I know takes some internal dialog to adjust my speed.  This is what I do if I work an extra long shift at work, and then have to drive home.  It's only 40 minutes if I am driving normal, but if I take 50 or even 60 minutes going a lot slower, at least I know that I get home safely.  
 
pollinator
Posts: 4339
Location: Anjou ,France
240
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Travis , what can one say ... you know the problem and eagle eye hindsight is not very helpful
take care pace yourself . Better to do a little every day that have to spend a couple of weeks bed ridden .

David
 
Posts: 1920
Location: Kent, UK - Zone 8
80
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Wow Travis, You are one lucky SOB - a hit like that could easily break bones or worse.

I have some golden rules when doing chainsaw work, and the number one is to call it a day BEFORE I get fatigued. All the chainsaw injuries I know of have happened when people have been off their game for some reason or other.

When I work on my chestnut coppice I frequently have to deal with sprung poles of various sorts. They scare me. I always release the tension as slowly and uniformly as possible.
 
Posts: 6494
Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!
558
bike chicken fungi trees urban woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Travis, I think I've probably got a couple decades on you at least so most of what I'm thinking is hindsite of course.

At the moment I think of all of those things my guy did (because he could!) that have led up to the condition of his back at the moment and would gladly trade any bit of our former lifestyle to have him able to walk again without pain......back in time, he thought he had no choice and really loved hard physical work....I regret not finding more alternatives to that hard work for both of us and him especially.....

I assume because you are self employed (we were also) that you feel like you can't stop what you are doing to maintain that income but believe me your wife and children will take you whole and healthy over anything else. 

Sitting where I am now, I think it's always possible to rearrange our lives and change priorities when our immediate or future health is at risk.



 
Posts: 121
Location: Brighton, Michigan
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Glad to hear you are going to be ok. Had a similar situation with a downed tree on a fence but I did not risk it.
 
Travis Johnson
pollinator
Posts: 2133
300
books cat chicken duck rabbit transportation trees woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Roberto pokachinni wrote:

I am in no way making excuses for not "having my head in the game" so to speak, but it's not.

  I sure hope you didn't take offense to me mentioning all of those things, including not having your head in the game.  That was about everybody, everyday, everywhere; not about you specifically.  In your case, you are self admitting that your head is not in the game (and for very valid reasons); and that is certainly tough with the type of work you are doing.  I really feel for you Travis.  My only advice is that you slow everything down, and take that much longer to make decisions; which at least for myself I know takes some internal dialog to adjust my speed.  This is what I do if I work an extra long shift at work, and then have to drive home.  It's only 40 minutes if I am driving normal, but if I take 50 or even 60 minutes going a lot slower, at least I know that I get home safely.  



Not at all, I spent 10 years working for the railroad and know how it works. I am not sure about the Canadian Railroad, but in the USA the Federal railroad Administration (FRA) found out that most major accidents happened in the 13th hour, not in the 11th or 14th hour of work. I noticed that when I drive long distances fatigue hit me at the 13th hour as well, so I was shocked when they said lineman here can work 17 hours with 7 hours off. That is crazy and ultimately will kill lineman when they are beat from a multi-day storm and touch a 7200 volt line.

But I know I am confused a lot now because I will just stop and try and think about what I was going to do. That type of confusion sucks!
 
Roberto pokachinni
gardener
Posts: 2169
Location: Fraser River Headwaters, Zone3, Lat: 53N, Altitude 2750', Boreal/Temperate Rainforest-transition
239
bike books food preservation forest garden fungi hugelkultur solar trees woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
In my company, it might be Transport Canada that dictates that particular rule.  We are not supposed to work more than 12 without the O.K. from a supervisor; and if we are looking like we will be going to be 14 then we need to arrange for a 'taxi' to get back to the tool house, but here's a couple kickers:  1.They don't offer you a ride home from the tool house (my 40 minute highway commute).  2.)If there is an 'emergency' job, the rule is gone.

As far as 2.) I'll give an example.  We do an above average welding job and it took 2/3rds of a day, and are planning to inspect a few of our past jobs and carry on home.  The supervisor on the next subdivision calls my supervisor and asks him to send us to do an emergency job.  It's a minimum of 2.5 hours driving just to get to the job from our present location, plus the emergency job (inevitably a massive mess of a project, and this also may be precluded by them running a lot of trains slowly over the defect -inevitably making it much worse- before they give us the time to start), and the full drive back.  The driving alone will put us well over hours, and technically we could refuse... but... more often than not we don't.  We can also get them to pay for a hotel room... but more often we don't. (There is no rule to ensure our safety after we are back at the tool house and in our own car... so it's up to us make that decision and submit the hotel receipt).  I have gotten back to the tool house and decided (twice) that I would get a hotel there, instead of carry on the last 40 minutes, just to be in my own bed for a short sleep, and then driving back from my place for work in the morning (saving myself 80 minutes of time plus the danger of doing it).  The extra sleep was worth it; the supervisor got the bill.  All I really missed was my toothbrush.  The continental breakfast was passable enough, but I wouldn't make a habit of consuming it's likes; but in an emergency it works.  

As far as the other rule: We are only needing to have 8 hours "rest" between shifts; not so far off of those lineman.  If there is a derailment or a situation like a landslide creating impassible track, then throw that rule out too.  We are there non stop until the job is done.   
 
Judith Browning
Posts: 6494
Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!
558
bike chicken fungi trees urban woodworking
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

But I know I am confused a lot now because I will just stop and try and think about what I was going to do. That type of confusion sucks!



I think that's a good indicator that you probably don't want to be using a chain saw or any other semi dangerous machinery and that would include driving a vehicle?  ...at least until you and your doctors have figured out what's going on with your vit D , etc.?

 
Travis Johnson
pollinator
Posts: 2133
300
books cat chicken duck rabbit transportation trees woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Roberto: yeah I know all about that stuff. I worked a lot in the Powder River Basin in Wyoming where we might be 2 hours out from our hotel, so our 12 hour shifts, plus 2 hour drive each way to Sheridan or Douglas might stretch it out to 16 hours. Then get checked into a hotel, and then Breakfast/Lunch/Dinner whatever time it is, and you got a 18 hour day in easy!

BUT while we broke almost every rule the FRA ever made on the railroad, the ONE RULE that was never violated in any of the Class 1 railroads (Union Pacific/BNSF), and the Regional Railroad I worked on (Guilford Rail); was the 12 hour rule. At 12 hours we went dead, even if it meant leaving a train on the mainline. Sadly that was partly to blame for the town of Lac Megantic just about being wiped off the face of the earth too. There were a lot of other contributing factors for sure, but that was one of them.

I worked briefly for the derailment crew (a year and a half) and you are absolutely right, every rule went out the window when a derailment happened. I am not sure about where you work, but Union Pacific at the time anyway, considered a derailment to cost them $30 a second from when the derailment went down to when the track was back running rains again. It does not sound like a lot of money, but it adds up!
 
passwords must contain 14 characters, a number, punctuation, a small bird, a bit of cheese and a tiny ad.
Solar ovens, haybox cooker - What would you build to go with a rocket oven?
https://permies.com/t/89917/Solar-ovens-haybox-cooker-build
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!