Tyler Ludens wrote:
Devin Lavign wrote:
Not saying this is the answer, but one might consider that along with changing from industrial agriculture we might need to also change urban design.
I think permaculture can only solve our problems if we implement permaculture. If we don't implement permaculture in cities, I don't see how it can solve the problems of cities. Permaculture, as I understand it, is not about farming, it's about how we live. It's a design system for living.
It almost seems like there's an idea that permaculture can just replace our current method of farming, and we'll go along otherwise living the way we do now. That's not what I've gotten from reading the Designer's Manual. I get the idea that permaculture is about a completely different way of living from what we have now, a way which integrates people and nature in designed ecosystems.
Since a lot of our problems are in cities, and most people now live in cities, it seems to me that permaculture will need to be implemented in cities most of all. Which will definitely require enormous changes to how we design cities.
"Permaculture... is the conscious design and maintenance of agriculturally productive ecosystems which have the diversity, stability, and resilience of natural ecosystems. It is the integration of landscape and people providing their food, energy, shelter, and other material and non-material needs in a sustainable way." Bill Mollison, Permaculture a Designers Manual, Preface.
Devin Lavign wrote:Where it is more about how to keep the standard of living people are used to, how to not disrupt the way of life people are used to.
Terry Ruth wrote: what I got from the latest post is anyone that wants to practice permaculture should move away from society start a new life.
The basic underlying tenets of permaculture are also older and more time-tested than sports and porn.
I admit to not knowing why there seems to be a resistance to empirical measurement, even of yield. My suspicion is that it may be grounded in a fear that it will demonstrate that the claims will not be supported by evidence – and I suspect this may turn out to be the case. Equally, I suspect the only way we're going to be able to address such a question will be to actually start making those measurements and working out where we might improve. I do not think those improvements will come until we openly discuss, face and address the issues. I do not think that responding with “sigh” to some of these matters is particularly helpful.
Permaculture, meanwhile, is about the design of sustainable food systems.
Sustainability becomes a complex set of conditions that are less dependent on the individual ecological or social components themselves than they are on the emergent qualities that come from their interaction.
Tyler Ludens wrote:Terry, here's a thread with links to information about permaculture design: http://www.permies.com/t/55751/permaculture-design/Permaculture-design-basics
For the most information about permaculture design, there's Bill Mollison's book about it, Permaculture a Designers Manual.
Here. Have a potato. I grew it in my armpit. And from my other armpit, this tiny ad:
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