• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • r ranson
  • Anne Miller
  • paul wheaton
stewards:
  • Mike Jay
  • Jocelyn Campbell
  • Miles Flansburg
garden masters:
  • Dan Boone
  • Dave Burton
  • Steve Thorn
  • Greg Martin
gardeners:
  • Shawn Klassen-Koop
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Mike Barkley

Grafting onto Texas Persimmon?

 
master pollinator
Posts: 10946
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
574
cat chicken fiber arts fish forest garden greening the desert trees wood heat
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Can someone explain why Texas Persimmon Diospyros texana is not considered graft compatible with other Persimmons?

Thank you for any insight!
 
garden master
Posts: 2480
Location: Central Oklahoma (zone 7a)
448
forest garden trees woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Is that from local lore, online sources, or...?

I’m interested in general in persimmons and the grafting of them; good info is hard to find.  I have often wondered why we never see the Texas persimmon outside Texas.
 
Tyler Ludens
master pollinator
Posts: 10946
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
574
cat chicken fiber arts fish forest garden greening the desert trees wood heat
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
From this document:  https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/fruit-nut/files/2015/04/persimmons_2015.pdf
 
Dan Boone
garden master
Posts: 2480
Location: Central Oklahoma (zone 7a)
448
forest garden trees woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thank you! Now I’m curious too.
 
Tyler Ludens
master pollinator
Posts: 10946
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
574
cat chicken fiber arts fish forest garden greening the desert trees wood heat
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Well, shoot, I was hoping someone here would have the reason we can't graft onto Texas Persimmon.  Now I am tempted to try to obtain some Asian Persimmon scion wood and try some grafts.  I will happily pay shipping (domestic) for some wood if anyone has any!  I'm also interested in American Persimmon wood to graft with.

 
gardener
Posts: 2280
Location: Central Texas zone 8a
359
bee cattle chicken sheep
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I have 3 asian persimmons i planted one or two years ago. Give me details of what is suitable for grafting and i will fix you up. They came from Womack nursery. I never track which is which so cant tell you the exact variety.
 
pollinator
Posts: 586
Location: Western Washington
151
bee duck forest garden homestead personal care rabbit
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I don't know about Texas Persimmon, but I do know that people are starting to graft Asian persimmons onto American seedlings. The result should be a tree that is more drought tolerant and cold hardier (from the graft down at least). Old lore says that American persimmons can be more tolerant of wet soil too. You can get American persimmons seedlings from a lot of nurseries, including Burnt Ridge, where they're usually around $5
 
Tyler Ludens
master pollinator
Posts: 10946
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
574
cat chicken fiber arts fish forest garden greening the desert trees wood heat
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Wow, wayne, you're the greatest!  Just cut off some dormant branch ends and send them!  So excited!
 
wayne fajkus
gardener
Posts: 2280
Location: Central Texas zone 8a
359
bee cattle chicken sheep
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Cool. I'll get them out by monday. I saw the PM first so no need to respond there.

The 2 varieties i have are fuyu and eureka. I just dont know which is which.
 
Tyler Ludens
master pollinator
Posts: 10946
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
574
cat chicken fiber arts fish forest garden greening the desert trees wood heat
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Super!

 
Dan Boone
garden master
Posts: 2480
Location: Central Oklahoma (zone 7a)
448
forest garden trees woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

James Landreth wrote:Old lore says that American persimmons can be more tolerant of wet soil too.



I can confirm this part from personal experience. My sister has a small grove of American persimmons growing in seasonally flooded lakeshore slime with Apios Americana at their feet and a beaver lodge on the lakeshore not a dozen feet from the most prolific tree — which, oddly, beaver have never touched.  They have at least three other small groves in their little swamp of beaver wetlands that get wet feet at least some years and are healthy.
 
pollinator
Posts: 263
Location: SE Oklahoma
28
duck forest garden hugelkultur
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Dan Boone wrote:

James Landreth wrote:Old lore says that American persimmons can be more tolerant of wet soil too.



I can confirm this part from personal experience. My sister has a small grove of American persimmons growing in seasonally flooded lakeshore slime with Apios Americana at their feet and a beaver lodge on the lakeshore not a dozen feet from the most prolific tree — which, oddly, beaver have never touched.  They have at least three other small groves in their little swamp of beaver wetlands that get wet feet at least some years and are healthy.



The wild persimmon trees on the place I moved from recently grew where the water flowed into a wet weather creek. Young ones grew along the fence line where the most water ran. Old, very straight and tall persimmons grew right next to the deep spots where the water stood. At times, they probably were in standing water, too.

More were starting to spread where the water overflowed from a pond. So now I always look for them close to water and the wild pecans a little further away, but in the same area.
 
Tyler Ludens
master pollinator
Posts: 10946
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
574
cat chicken fiber arts fish forest garden greening the desert trees wood heat
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The thing that interests me the most about Texas Persimmon, apart from the beauty of this small tree, is its extreme drought tolerance.
 
wayne fajkus
gardener
Posts: 2280
Location: Central Texas zone 8a
359
bee cattle chicken sheep
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
They should arrive Thursday.  I hope they work for you. Trees are small.
 
Tyler Ludens
master pollinator
Posts: 10946
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
574
cat chicken fiber arts fish forest garden greening the desert trees wood heat
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thank you!  I'm excited to try this!

 
Tyler Ludens
master pollinator
Posts: 10946
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
574
cat chicken fiber arts fish forest garden greening the desert trees wood heat
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Grafted four of the pieces onto this small Texas Persimmon.  The remainder I stuck in a pot hoping they might root.  Even though I kept the sticks for too long in the fridge, they seemed to be in good condition.  Hope they take!
P1070485.JPG
[Thumbnail for P1070485.JPG]
 
Montana has cold dark nights. Perfect for the heat from incandescent light. Tiny ad:
2019 ATC (Appropriate Technology Course) in Montana
https://permies.com/wiki/101802/ATC-Technology-Montana
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!