• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies living kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • raven ranson
  • Jocelyn Campbell
  • paul wheaton
  • Devaka Cooray
stewards:
  • Burra Maluca
  • Miles Flansburg
  • Julia Winter
garden masters:
  • Dave Burton
  • Anne Miller
  • Greg Martin
gardeners:
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Mark Tudor
  • Pearl Sutton

Working on My Property Planning  RSS feed

 
pollinator
Posts: 1153
Location: Green County, Kentucky
20
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
We've been here for about eight months now, and I'm beginning to get an idea of what should go where.  I've worked up some ideas in Sketchup; will see if I can post the snapshot of that, then make comments.  

Sketchup-landscape-plan-December-2018.PNG
[Thumbnail for Sketchup-landscape-plan-December-2018.PNG]
I have 2.68 acres in south-central Kentucky; dimensions on the drawing are close but not exact.
 
Kathleen Sanderson
pollinator
Posts: 1153
Location: Green County, Kentucky
20
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Okay!  That worked!

Well, first, south is at the bottom, east is on the right and west is left.  The driveway comes in from the north -- it's actually public road right onto our property, which is a little bit annoying, but means that the mail is delivered closer to the house, and I don't have to haul the garbage cans clear out to the property line.  So there is that.

Existing buildings, from north to south, are:

1.  Small barn, about 24' X 36' -- I plan to put a workshop in here, because it's got power and is dryer than the big barn.  Also will probably put cages for meat rabbits in here, and kid pens for the goat kids.  

2.  Big barn, about 36' X 60'.  This one has five bays, needs some cleaning and I need to deal with rain runoff from the roof, which right now runs inside of the barn.  It used to be a dairy barn; I'm using the top bay for miscellaneous storage (anything that won't be hurt by getting wet); the middle bay, which is fairly dry, has hay for the goats in it.  Right now the two goats I have are in one of the dog kennels, but once I get some fixing done, they will get the bottom bay and the pen north of the barn; the bay between that used to be a milking parlor and milk room, and will be again.

3.  The green mound just south of the big barn will be a combination root cellar and tornado shelter.  There needs to be room for a truck and trailer to drive around it to deliver hay into the big barn.

4.  The shed and greenhouses in the drawing haven't been built yet.  The shed will be for firewood and miscellaneous; the big greenhouse behind it, if I ever build it, will be built over a large fish pond and will have plant rafts floating in the water.

5.  The house, the black-roofed structure, is small; the base square is 26' X 26' with an enclosed porch on the north and the south, and the bathroom built onto the east side of the house (I don't know if that was added after the house was built around 1930).  I want to add patios around the house, and a greenhouse on the south side, although that would be shaded much of the year.  But the layout works fairly well for us.  

6.  To the left of the house are a couple of small structures; the one to the north is a chicken coop; the other one is a double dog kennel.  Right now my two Kinder does are in the south half of the kennel.  

7.  Just south of the house is a small structure -- this is the pump house (we are on well water, thankfully).  It's one of those low things that you access by lifting the roof off, which is a total pain.  I'm going to see if we can get the well casing re-lined, as it's rusting out, but the pump and pressure tank are both new, and the water is good.  I want a hand pump on the well for power outages, though.

8.  On the south side of the yard are two more chicken coops; one is all wire and up on legs, and is only suitable for growing out chicks that aren't big enough to go down on the ground yet.  The other has two sections, one for feeding and one for the nest boxes.  The ceiling is a little low -- I'm 5'3" and have to be careful of my head.  But they are there and work, so I'll leave them for now.  Next to them to the east is another smaller building that I didn't put in the picture; it could be an additional small coop.  

The black arrows show where the property slopes down to the existing pond, which does not really look like a doughnut with an island in it (it needs cleaned out and enlarged; my idea is to put most of what comes out of the pond into the island and plant bamboo there).  

Now, starting back up at the northwest corner of the property, and moving clockwise:  I want to plant several chestnut trees on the north side of the property.  There is one black walnut in the fence-row that I plan to leave; that's the taller tree that's a slightly different color.  The fence row all down the west side needs quite a bit of cleaning out, which is why my plantings don't go all the way to the fence line.  

Next to the barns, and around the goat pen, will be mulberry trees.  

The beds in the northeast corner of the property are for crops that need space, largely for animal feed but also calorie crops for us until the tree crops start to produce (and probably for some time afterwards).  Eventually part of this area will be planted with trees, as well.  This area is a south-facing slope that isn't too steep, and will be a good place for heat-loving crops like corn, beans, and squash.  I'll also plant potatoes and sweet potatoes there.

The pond will have things like rhubarb, asparagus, horseradish, elderberries, and other moisture-loving plants around it.  Then we start moving up hill; the north-facing slope will hold my fruit orchard.  

The funny green cloud shape is existing young black locusts that I plan to coppice for firewood and other uses; the trees in the back yard are mature black locusts.  I thought about removing them, but they shade the house and the back yard in the summer, making that space much more usable.  

In the south-west corner is a group of existing trees of several species, and I plan to leave that corner somewhat wild.  

Just north of the house garden beds start; there's a fence across the property there, with a gate in it, to keep my autistic daughter from going walk-about and getting lost.  Just south of the fence I've started mulching with cardboard, and plan to put up an 8' X 35' greenhouse with the no-climb horse panels I already have (the horse panels are 60" tall, compared to cattle panels which are 50").  On the fence I plan to train grape vines.  On the north side of the fence I will eventually expand the garden, and on the north side of the turn-around/parking area, will be berries.  

The brown rectangles are either small ponds or growing basins (I want to try upland rice, for one thing) to catch and conserve water running off from the roofs of the buildings.  I need one more pond to catch water from the small barn, but haven't decided yet where that will go.  

We are completely surrounded by cow pasture; the only house we can see from here is to the north.  We are at the end of a dead-end road -- the road is just wide enough for one vehicle at a time to pass, so it's pretty quiet out here.  

I do plan to put guilds around the fruit trees and the chestnuts, and probably also around the black locusts in the back yard.

In addition to the goats, I have a small flock of Icelandic chickens, and plan to get a couple of pairs of geese next year.  

The three little dots next to the driveway are my garbage cans; next to them is the mailbox, and a power pole with a line dropped to the big barn.

I will need to put in some swales on the north-facing slope where the fruit trees are going, to slow the water down there.  Other swales I didn't draw in will direct water to some of the other ponds.  (I'm still figuring some of this out.)

We have a long hot summer -- at least compared to what I'm used to -- and outdoor living space is important.  One thing I really want to do is build a low 'tree house' -- a platform around the base of the black locust just west of the house, where I would be able to keep an eye on things from the kitchen window -- for my autistic daughter to be able to be outside in the shade.  (She gets VERY ill if she's out in the sun for more than a few minutes -- she has lupus.)  Also, I'd like to put a hammock up between a couple of the trees!  There is already a clothesline in the back yard.

This is totally still in the planning stages, except for the location of the horse-panel greenhouse, which I plan to start on very soon.  So I'm open to suggestions for fine-tuning.

Kathleen

The highest point on the property is the south-east corner, which is about 829' elevation.  The pond is the lowest, at about 799' elevation.  The north side of the property is about twenty feet higher than the pond.  


 
pollinator
Posts: 624
Location: Victoria BC
35
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Nice. I aspire to such a tidy diagram, at some point!

Looks like you have quite a good start with all the existing infrastructure, and to have the varied slope fromantic a little valley near dead center on your property certainly looks convenient.

I first interpreted the pond colour as concrete, and thought, very small gocart track??

I'm guessing you've considered prevailing winds; are these a big deal where you are, especially if surrounded by pasture?

The one thing that niggles at my mind, is the rootcellar/tornado shelter. I want my root cellar really close to my kitchen, and I have no tornados to worry about... plus it seems that the current spot, would be good flex space for equipment, and perhaps the direction the barn could expand, if ever there was need?
 
Kathleen Sanderson
pollinator
Posts: 1153
Location: Green County, Kentucky
20
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks!  The graphic is tidier than real life, but at least it gives me something to go off of.

We have had high winds from several directions, but the worst seem to come out of the south.

I originally drew the root cellar/storm shelter closer to the house.  But in consideration, decided to move it, for several reasons.  The main reason is that 3/4 of the contents (or more) will be feed for the goats and rabbits in the barns.  Also, I like having it so close to the gardens and crop plot.  And it is far enough away from the big trees in the back yard aren't likely to end up falling on top of it if there is a storm bad enough to knock them down.  So that is my reasoning there.
 
pollinator
Posts: 2461
398
books cat chicken duck rabbit transportation trees woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
No real advice on layout as that is a very personal, boots-on-the-ground sort of thing, but I might suggest using CAD. I use it all the time...cardboard aided design! (I kill myself)

I have my farm maps all in 2 foot contours thanks to LIDAR, so using them, with cardboard representing 2 feet in elevation for each layer I paste down. To fill in between the layers I use drywall compound to sculp, but also use trees, gravel, hay etc to really show what I want to do. From all that I can get a really good idea of how the land pitches and rolls, and where my water will run. You can also add in 3 dimensional buildings since cardboard is very easy to hot-glue together, and so you can really make a nice diorama of it. I work with the Small Business Administration and the USDA a lot, and have shown Soil Engineers and Lenders just what my plans are. In 3D they can viisualize the ideas in my head much, much better.

Maybe it is overkill, but homesteading is tough, and I have found as I revert back to the plan, I can see a half-finished project in real life, but in my layouts see what I envision it to look like, and thus keep heart.

(And it gives a person something to do on cold winter nights that is really productive, creative, and fun). I wish I had a photo handy of some of my layouts...


 
Kathleen Sanderson
pollinator
Posts: 1153
Location: Green County, Kentucky
20
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Travis Johnson wrote:No real advice on layout as that is a very personal, boots-on-the-ground sort of thing, but I might suggest using CAD. I use it all the time...cardboard aided design! (I kill myself)

I have my farm maps all in 2 foot contours thanks to LIDAR, so using them, with cardboard representing 2 feet in elevation for each layer I paste down. To fill in between the layers I use drywall compound to sculp, but also use trees, gravel, hay etc to really show what I want to do. From all that I can get a really good idea of how the land pitches and rolls, and where my water will run. You can also add in 3 dimensional buildings since cardboard is very easy to hot-glue together, and so you can really make a nice diorama of it. I work with the Small Business Administration and the USDA a lot, and have shown Soil Engineers and Lenders just what my plans are. In 3D they can viisualize the ideas in my head much, much better.

Maybe it is overkill, but homesteading is tough, and I have found as I revert back to the plan, I can see a half-finished project in real life, but in my layouts see what I envision it to look like, and thus keep heart.

(And it gives a person something to do on cold winter nights that is really productive, creative, and fun). I wish I had a photo handy of some of my layouts...




That actually sounds like a fun project to work on over the winter!  And, yes, I need that vision of the potential finished project to keep me on track.  It also serves the very practical purpose of making sure I don't go and plant something where a pond should go, or dig a pond in the wrong place, for example.
 
gardener
Posts: 2505
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
452
books food preservation hunting solar trees woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Depending on summer irrigation needs, holding some water up higher in the landscape could be beneficial.  Maybe collect some in a higher pond above the orchard (food forest) or garden?  Does the road have a slope to it that would collect/direct water in a favorable direction or is it gravel?

Also, I'm working around the alleopathic properties of a butternut (black walnut family) which limits my tree/shrub choices.  Have you checked which species you can plant near your walnut?

Good plan and a nice map!  I like Travis's CAD plan as well, might have to do that this winter..
 
Kathleen Sanderson
pollinator
Posts: 1153
Location: Green County, Kentucky
20
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Mike Jay wrote:Depending on summer irrigation needs, holding some water up higher in the landscape could be beneficial.  Maybe collect some in a higher pond above the orchard (food forest) or garden?  Does the road have a slope to it that would collect/direct water in a favorable direction or is it gravel?

Also, I'm working around the alleopathic properties of a butternut (black walnut family) which limits my tree/shrub choices.  Have you checked which species you can plant near your walnut?

Good plan and a nice map!  I like Travis's CAD plan as well, might have to do that this winter..



Putting a pond above the orchard is an excellent idea -- the cattle pasture that surrounds us drains down onto my place, and I might as well take advantage of that.  And the pond to collect rainwater from the small barn?  The one I was trying to figure out where to put it?  That can go at the upper (north) end of the crop field.  Thanks!

I am attaching an aerial view of the property as it currently is (evidently Google Earth took a picture of the place this summer -- that's my truck sitting there!  You can see that there's nothing tidy about it right now -- just a ton of work to be done.  Going to take me a while -- I'm 61 and have a bad back.  But I'm hoping that new satellite shots show up on Google Earth fairly regularly, as it will be interesting to see progress from that point of view.  And, I am getting some measuring done the easy way, without having to go out in the chilly damp and do it with a measuring tape, LOL!  (Using a long measuring tape without a helper is a pain.)

Kathleen

Aerial-View-Taken-Summer-2018.PNG
[Thumbnail for Aerial-View-Taken-Summer-2018.PNG]
 
Mike Jay
gardener
Posts: 2505
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
452
books food preservation hunting solar trees woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Sweet, glad I could help!  Looks like your neighbor has a pond too.  Does that overflow towards your property or does yours overflow towards theirs?  Might be an opportunity there for both of you...
 
Kathleen Sanderson
pollinator
Posts: 1153
Location: Green County, Kentucky
20
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Mike Jay wrote:Depending on summer irrigation needs, holding some water up higher in the landscape could be beneficial.  Maybe collect some in a higher pond above the orchard (food forest) or garden?  Does the road have a slope to it that would collect/direct water in a favorable direction or is it gravel?

Also, I'm working around the alleopathic properties of a butternut (black walnut family) which limits my tree/shrub choices.  Have you checked which species you can plant near your walnut?

Good plan and a nice map!  I like Travis's CAD plan as well, might have to do that this winter..



I forgot about the black walnut -- I'll do some checking on what grows best near it before I plant anything.  There are a couple of others in the fence row that are too close to where I want to put the vegetable garden, and those will have to come out.

 
Kathleen Sanderson
pollinator
Posts: 1153
Location: Green County, Kentucky
20
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Mike Jay wrote:Sweet, glad I could help!  Looks like your neighbor has a pond too.  Does that overflow towards your property or does yours overflow towards theirs?  Might be an opportunity there for both of you...



My overflow goes into his pond.  You can see the cow paths in his field -- they water in his pond.  I don't want to stop the water ending up in his pond, but I would like to get all the use out of that I can before it goes there.  Then his field goes up all around us -- that's one reason we have so much privacy here, because other than the dip to his pond, his field is mostly higher than this place.  But we do still get plenty of sun.  
 
Mike Jay
gardener
Posts: 2505
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
452
books food preservation hunting solar trees woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Kathleen Sanderson wrote:There are a couple of others in the fence row that are too close to where I want to put the vegetable garden, and those will have to come out.


I believe they continue to give off that alleopathy (spelling?) for a while after they're dead so the sooner you remove them, the better.  Some garden crops are just fine with them, some aren't.  Straw bale gardening could get you through for a few years if needed for those crops.
 
Kathleen Sanderson
pollinator
Posts: 1153
Location: Green County, Kentucky
20
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Mike Jay wrote:

Kathleen Sanderson wrote:There are a couple of others in the fence row that are too close to where I want to put the vegetable garden, and those will have to come out.


I believe they continue to give off that alleopathy (spelling?) for a while after they're dead so the sooner you remove them, the better.  Some garden crops are just fine with them, some aren't.  Straw bale gardening could get you through for a few years if needed for those crops.



Yeah, I'll be taking them down shortly.  Thankfully, they are small -- only twelve to fifteen feet tall right now.  I can still do it with a hand saw.

I'm re-working my sketchup design after measuring the aerial photo.  Glad I figured out how to do measurements on that, as it's going to be very helpful.

 
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work - Edison. Tiny ad:
Groundnuts, Chestnuts, Elderberry, Comfrey+ from Interwoven Nursery
https://permies.com/t/94677/Groundnut-Tubers-Apios-americana-Improved
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!