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This is a good breakdown of geothermal heat pump install and operation and maintenance.

https://homeguide.com/costs/geothermal-heat-pump-cost
 
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Mud and I did a lot of processing.  Here is the short version:

In Ground Heat Pump (new home / where conditions are good for "in ground")

   excavator stuff / the "in ground" part
       $15,000 - average for materials, rental equipment and labor

   all the hardware for the heat pump
       $5500

   installation of the hardware
       $1500

   all the hardware and installation of ducty things
       $4000



 
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natural gas

   getting the gas to you

   venting to the outside (materials and labor)

   the furnace
   
   installation of the furnace

   all the hardware and installation of ducty things
       $4000
 
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ray Bunbury wrote:For us
the 10k was for all the installation and the equipment.  

upstairs  4 small rooms with base heater.  One big room heater is like baseboard, but with air fan to move the heat faster.
downstairs - 3 rooms with base heater.
each floor more than 1k square feet.  

no ducks because no air moving from central place..  All heaters have pipes that move the heat in a fluid and pump it from place to place.  I think polyethileen glicol in closed circle for each room.



remembering more - 10 years a long time - we did the other renovations of the house at the same time.  Floors redone, some walls taken to frame stage.  This made labour costs of installing heat pump less than half if the house had been whole.  Also getting electrical upgrade and deepening pond wasn't in that estimate.

Improving the pond was part of other landscaping.  

Revised estimate for 10 years ago, baseboard heat pond heat pump and hot water system, if we didn't do so much labour to help and other stuff $20-30k canada.  Today, expect to pay more than double for same system in same size house.  But also today government might give some money back and tax break (not applicable for us as we don't make enough income)
 
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Not sure, but i think beau put this in at the top

Natural Gas - $9,550
 getting the gas to you
 venting to the outside (materials and labor)
 the furnace  
 installation of the furnace
     $5,550
 all the hardware and installation of ducty things
     $4000



Propane - $9,100
 getting the propane to you
 venting to the outside (materials and labor)
 the furnace  
 installation of the furnace
     $5,100
 all the hardware and installation of ducty things
     $4000



Looking at gas, I think "installation of the furnace" would be something in the neighborhood of $800.  So my guess is that $5550 is something that includes other costs?
 
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I'm gonna make some edits to the wiki.
 
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paul wheaton wrote:Not sure, but i think beau put this in at the top

Natural Gas - $9,550
 getting the gas to you
 venting to the outside (materials and labor)
 the furnace  
 installation of the furnace
     $5,550
 all the hardware and installation of ducty things
     $4000



Propane - $9,100
 getting the propane to you
 venting to the outside (materials and labor)
 the furnace  
 installation of the furnace
     $5,100
 all the hardware and installation of ducty things
     $4000



Looking at gas, I think "installation of the furnace" would be something in the neighborhood of $800.  So my guess is that $5550 is something that includes other costs?



Yes, this is all the AI stuff, which needs to be vetted according to common sense by experienced people.
 
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Yuppers!

So now we slog through the work of research.  

We have a pretty solid number for one of the five pieces.  So we need to come up with these four numbers, with sources.  

    - getting the gas to you
    - venting to the outside (materials and labor)
    - the furnace  
    - installation of the furnace

Venting to the outside is going to be something around $400.  

Getting the gas to you ...  that will have a lot of interesting answers.  i wonder if it might be one of those things where they get it to you for "free" and it just gets woven into your next 200 gas bills.

The furnace.  Probably something like $2000 for an average montana home.  

Installation will assume all the other bits are there and the furnace is in a big box in a truck that will pull in ten minutes.  My guess is something around $800.

But this info is all rough guesses and not sourced.  
 
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Here's a stab at ventilation:

How much does it cost to install ventillation for a natural gas furnace in an average home in montana?  Please provide sources.

The cost to install ventilation for a natural gas furnace in an average home in Montana will depend on the size of the home, the type of ventilation system being installed, and the complexity of the installation. According to HomeAdvisor, the average cost for a furnace installation in the United States is between $2,150 and $5,900. The cost of installing ventilation for a natural gas furnace in Montana can be expected to range from $1,000 to $3,500.

Source:

HomeAdvisor: https://www.homeadvisor.com/cost/heating-and-cooling/install-a-furnace/

 
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Here's a stab at getting nat gas lines run to your house:

I'm guessing this is cost to the service provider:

How much does it cost to install natural gas lines to an average home in montana?  Please provide sources.

The cost of installing natural gas lines to an average home in Montana can range from $4,000 to $7,000, depending on the distance and complexity of the project. According to the Montana Public Service Commission, the cost to install natural gas lines in Montana is based on the length of the pipe and the amount of excavation required. Sources:

-Montana Public Service Commission: https://www.mt.gov/psc/utility/gas/pages/pipeline_construction.aspx

-Montana State University Extension: https://extension.montana.edu/energy/naturalgas/costs.html




Do I have to pay to have natural gas brought to my house, or is it included in my utitlity bills?

The cost to have natural gas brought to your house varies depending on your location. In some cases, the cost is included in your utility bills, while in other cases, you may need to pay an installation fee. Contact your local utility company to find out the specific cost for your area.



Can't get it to give me setup fee.  We could call some utilities to find out, or see if their website says.  

I think, bottom line is that this is paid for as part of utility costs, and subsidized by govt.

Are we only evaluating "financial cost to consumer" on this criteria?  It seems that the high cost to utilities for install would fall under "systemic dangers" and ecological impact, etc.
 
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Furnace cost:
note: I could not get it to exclude labor/instalation.

How much does the average home furnace cost in montana?  sources, please.

The average cost of a home furnace in Montana ranges from $2,100 to $5,000, depending on the type, size, brand, and installation costs.

Sources:
1.  https://www.homeadvisor.com/cost/heating-and-cooling/install-a-furnace/#:~:text=The%20average%20cost%20of%20a,efficient%20the%20model%20is%20rated.
2. https://www.hvacdirect.com/furnace-costs-in-montana/
3. https://www.angieslist.com/articles/average-furnace-replacement-cost.htm

 
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how much does it cost to have a new furnace installed in montana, not including the cost of machinary.  sources, please.

The cost of having a new furnace installed in Montana will vary based on the size of the unit, the type of fuel used, the efficiency rating, and the installation complexity. According to HomeAdvisor, the average cost of installing a new furnace in Montana is between $2,062 and $2,972, not including the cost of the machine.

Sources:

HomeAdvisor. (2020). Furnace Installation Cost. Retrieved from https://www.homeadvisor.com/cost/heating-and-cooling/install-a-furnace/

 
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Cost of propane tank installation:

How much does it cost to install an propane tank for propane home heat in montana? sources, please.

The cost of installing a propane tank for home heating in Montana will vary depending on several factors, including the size of the tank and whether installation is DIY or professionally done. Generally, the cost of a tank alone ranges from $500 to $2,000, and installation costs can range from $500 to $2,500.

Sources:

1. https://www.fhrpropane.com/blog/2020/02/26/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-a-propane-tank-for-home-heating/

2. https://www.tfpropane.com/propane-tanks-montana/

3. https://propanetankstore.com/propane-tank-cost/

 
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I'd love to get some eyeballs on the above numbers.  If they look good, I can massage them into the wiki.

One thing for me to verify:

true of false: regarding the furnace + furnace installation and venting, propane and nat gas should be quite similar, right?

I understand fuel source and delivery will be different.
 
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i tried google to get a cost to install a gas line in missoula.  i got this

https://www.manta.com/cost-gas-line-installation-missoula-mt

They say the average for missoula is $330 and that includes materials and labor.

 
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for pellet stove:

vent exhaust to the outside  $750



I suspect it will be the same for natural gas and propane.
 
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Edit (I misread the OP) Does anyone know the cost to install a gas steam boiler?
 
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paul wheaton wrote:i tried google to get a cost to install a gas line in missoula.  i got this

https://www.manta.com/cost-gas-line-installation-missoula-mt

They say the average for missoula is $330 and that includes materials and labor.



This strikes me as incredibly low.  Anybody else?
 
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paul wheaton wrote:

paul wheaton wrote:i tried google to get a cost to install a gas line in missoula.  i got this

https://www.manta.com/cost-gas-line-installation-missoula-mt

They say the average for missoula is $330 and that includes materials and labor.



This strikes me as incredibly low.  Anybody else?



I guess I am fishing for something where there is a giant gas pipe near this property - like at the street.  And this house is now being built.  So the gas line needs to get routed to the house and then routed to our heater.

 
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homeguide says installing natural gas service is between $0 and $2000 with average being a 49 foot run costing $980 https://homeguide.com/costs/gas-line-installation-cost
 
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Beau Davidson wrote:true of false: regarding the furnace + furnace installation and venting, propane and nat gas should be quite similar, right?



Yes.  

The way that the gas gets to your contraption will be different.
 
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and when they say zero cost I think what they mean is " we don't charge you to send our people out to hook you up because we will take it and more every month once we have you tied into the matrix."
 
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The $980 price includes the "sometimes $0".  And our fuel cost is also averages, so I think this is solid.  $980.

 
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According to https://www.thisoldhouse.com/plumbing/reviews/propane-tank-installation-cost and several other sources it can cost as little as $375 to have someone park a rented 100 to 500 propane tank on blocks next to your house and poke a copper line through a hole in the wall into your furnace OR as much as $5000 labor to install a purchased permanent buried 5000 gallon propane tank and trench a line to the house.
 
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https://www.bobvila.com/articles/cost-of-new-furnace/

You’ll likely pay between $150 and $500 for a professional service to install a furnace





https://www.homeadvisor.com/cost/heating-and-cooling/install-a-furnace/

Gas furnaces average $3,800 to $10,000 to install, but they can cost as much as $12,000.

 
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https://www.angi.com/articles/common-gas-furnace-prices.htm

The average gas furnace replacement cost for a 1,600 to 2,000 square foot house is about $7,000



And after that it looks like the cost of installation is not included.

 
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propane furnace according to https://www.homeadvisor.com/cost/heating-and-cooling/propane-furnace-prices/

average cost $4000



https://www.montana-dakota.com/rates-services/

installation (i think this is for everything)

natural gas $13,000
propane $13,000

 
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https://homeguide.com/costs/propane-furnace-cost

A new propane furnace costs $2,200 to $5,700 on average to install a standard unit. A high-efficiency propane furnace costs $3,500 to $7,400 installed. Installing a new propane furnace and ductwork costs $4,600 to $12,300.




https://homeguide.com/costs/gas-furnace-prices

A new gas furnace costs $2,000 to $5,200 on average to replace a standard unit. A high-efficiency gas furnace costs $3,300 to $6,900 installed on average.



 
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Generally a propane furnace and a natural gas furnace are the same furnace with a different size aperture to accommodate the different BTU per volume of the two fuel delivery models. If I go to Homedepot.com and look at gas furnaces rated around 60k BTU per hour I'm finding an 80% efficient model costs around $2000 and a 95% efficient model costs around $2500. Just the unit.
 
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Chris McClellan wrote: If I go to Homedepot.com and look at gas furnaces rated around 60k BTU per hour I'm finding an 80% efficient model costs around $2000 and a 95% efficient model costs around $2500. Just the unit.



I think it is fair to say $2300 is an average price for a gas or propane heater - just the unit.

 
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paul wheaton wrote:https://www.bobvila.com/articles/cost-of-new-furnace/

You’ll likely pay between $150 and $500 for a professional service to install a furnace




I'm gonna say the average is $300.
 
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unless you have your own 100 gallon tank you take into town to fill yourself or your own expensive buried tank plan on about $150 per year for tank rental fees
 
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As we have been researching this we are first trying to come up with figures for what it costs to have a heater professionaly installed then later we will do the same numbers for DIY install. We are finding curious differences in costs of heaters we can buy say at Home Depot and the much higher cost of the "exact same" heater through a vendor.I see two ways to account for this. Both may be true.  I feel like there are things I buy cheap at home depot that don't seem to be as high in quality as the "exact same" product purchased elsewhere. I'm also pretty sure the way industry is now with purchasing online means vendors don't get very good margins  so they just go to Home Depot themselves and buy the furnace and add a couple thousand dollars to the price so they can afford to support it.
 
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I suspect that the average furnace at home depot may be $2300, but those are for DIY folks.  And the home depot is in business of selling lots of stuff over and over.  

The pro is probably gonna go to a local HVAC wholesaler.  The average heater is a bit more powerful and of a higher build quality.  And the pro marks it up a bit.  

So, at this moment, based on all the information we have gathered, I would guess that the average furnace from the home depot for a 2000 square foot home would be $2300.  And I would guess that the average furnace from a professional installer would be about $4500.  

This is just me trying to make heads or tails of the data we have collected so far.  What do you think Mud?



 
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yes. even if that professional installed a Home Depot furnace.
 
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Not sure if it helps, but...

Ground source heat pump, western MA, ordered october 2021, finished installing october 2022. Total invoice price: $28,000. $6100 rebate check cut to me to arrive soon (rebate amount went up during installation), and current tax break is 30% of installed cost ($8400)

Cost to run in MA:
$0.41/kwh Edit: its actually $0.31
Uses either 2kw (stage 1) or 3kw (stage 2)
Highest daily usage to date: 50kw ($20.50 $15.5 for 1 days heat)
Estimated comparison to oil heat: $1300-2000 for the heating season vs $4500-6000 for oil in the same period (this years prices with our average oil usage over a winter)
 
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Aj Richardson wrote:
Cost to run in MA:
$0.41/kwh



That might be the highest in the nation!  Do you have a link to support that?



 
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paul wheaton wrote:

Aj Richardson wrote:
Cost to run in MA:
$0.41/kwh



That might be the highest in the nation!  Do you have a link to support that?



How about a screen cap of the rates on my bill?


Ah, sorry its $0.31 my bad. ill edit (strike out) my previous post for accuracy.
electric_rate.png
[Thumbnail for electric_rate.png]
 
paul wheaton
author and steward
Posts: 50089
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
hugelkultur trees chicken wofati bee woodworking
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sunnufabitch.

I guess you gotta take the total and divide me kwh.
 
Aj Richardson
Posts: 29
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That'll work for next month since this month has part old rate, part new.
 
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