Joe Jenkins and the Humanure Handbook

Thanks everyone for having me here! Yes, the 4th edition of the Humanure Handbook came out last May. It's half sequel and half expanded update. I haven't figured out how to respond to anyone on this forum yet, so I'm posting a new message instead.

Welcome! Down at the bottom of each thread there's a reply button.

You can also hit the quote button on a post, and it'll take you to a place to reply.

Here's a tutorial on how to post: https://permies.com/wiki/25790/post-permies


(Things do look a bit different on mobile view, but I can get up a tutorial for that if you need it).

We're glad to have you here!

Fred Tyler wrote:Welcome! Down at the bottom of each thread there's a reply button.

Thanks so much Fred! I also didn't know, but had figured out the quote way to respond. I have been a fan of the Humanure Handbook & also requested the Slateroof Bible for my Birthday 😁😁Both excellent books! I have used the basic bucket method for many years happily, & I'm quite the girly girl with an excellent nose & never had any issues with  any smell while doing so. Thank you Joe for your inspiring work & Welcome!

Welcome Joe, your book looks very interesting. This is my first posting. I’d be interested to know whether you need to incorporate/encourage specific organisms/groups of organisms in order get successful composts. I guess it is an anaerobic process? Could an aerobic composting process be used? Lots of questions! I’ll have to read your book. Cheers

The Humanure Handbook 4th edition can be read free here: http://humanurehandbook.com/contents.html (chapter by chapter). The process is aerobic and microorganism strains do not need to be added.

If I hot-composted the humanure pile a second time, would I be able to use it sooner?

Thank you again, Joe, for finally coming to permies! I have been following permies for 2 years or more now as an observer (not a "lurcher") & have just recently posted a few times. I've often wondered why the Humanure concept had eluded this group for so long. I'm impressed with their "Willow feeder" but wondered why it was not used as the valuable resource it truly is. (Possibly I don't know enough about their Willow feeder, must check further!) Also who wants to have to go to the next building to do their business, especially on a cold winter's night! I am so pleased that your book came into my hands so many years ago to enlighten me to this concept. I had used the simple bucket method for 6 years while off grid in a log cabin & the composting outhouse for 6 years on another site previously, with an off grid cabin. Both worked very well. Currently I'm looking into the "earthship" concept of using a regular fush toilet that goes to a botanical cell that thru 10 years of research they have found can grow all forms of food safely except root vegetables! I think that to spread the use of this valuable resource we need to meet people closer to where they are, so it is not such a stretch to make the change.
   I aslo very much enjoy your Slate Roof Bible, & wondered how it might be incorporated to the wofati design to eliminate the rubber membrane? So many new & wonderful ideas here at permies! Thanks to you all!  Keep up the great work 😁

Also, Joe, I so appreciate this method compared to any others because of the simplicity, instant portable toilet absolutely anywhere! Beautiful! I always refer to it as "my compost toilet". Not composting, as I know it doesn't compost in the toilet, but compost toilet, to convey that in the end it is compost. Again, thanks so much for bringing this concept to the modern world, so very important! Blessings to you!

After some searching on the Willow feeder, I understand better. Nice job on the design & so useful for fluctuating number of people using it. I do prefer the basic Humanure bucket method so I can stay in my warm cabin, but can see it usefulness in a larger community situation. Thanks permies for such a wide range of information on so many topics.

I just realized that there is a composting toilet on this guy's floating island:



I remember seeing news about him years ago, but I overlooked this detail.

Hey all, I won a copy of this book and just got it in the mail yesterday.  I'm excited to read it.  As a high school science teacher, you better believe that a book with a provocative title/content is going to end up in my classroom, but first I am going to read it.  
In full disclosure, I don't think that I will join the humanure club, but I am hoping to get ideas, perhaps start with manure from my wife's team of huskies.  Right now I dump it down woodchuck holes (fills holes, hopefully acts as woodchuck deterrent)  but I'd love to compost it and make it safe to use on plants... the pathogen possibility bothers me, but I think that this book may answer some of my concerns.  
I get those "daily-ish" emails from the forum, and that is how I found out about the contest. Never thought I'd win something.  

Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum so bear with me as I fumble with how to use it. I bought Joe Jenkins's humanure Handbook last year, recommended by a friend, and have found it very educational to say the least! I am struggling with getting enough heat. I can't seem to get it higher than about 60-80'f. I feel I have followed all the instructions and youtube videos and yet I still have issues.  I'm using sawdust from a local lumber mill for my indoor toilet. In compost bin I use straw or hay for a cover. I believe it's going anaerobic, compressed near bottom as it's hard to probe thermometer. It is breeding big flies! Yes I'm putting enough straw on top but I think there's enough space for insects to go between straws. Help please!

Tell us more about your compost bin.

How big is it? What is it made of? age? etc...

What is the temperature outside?

What wood is your sawdust from?

I have had great success with hardwoods. Less success with conifers. The conifer sawdust seems near waterproof, so less absorbent and slower to decompose.

Are you including urine in your compost? The nitrogen is essential to get the compost ratio correct. Without the urine it slowly breaks down at lower temperatures.

I believe it's softwood sawdust and yes there's urine as well as everything else from my household

Anita, how much have you added to the pile so far? How often are you adding?

I add a 5 gallon bucket's worth every week from toilet and a 2 gallon bucket of food scraps. I started pile a year ago up here in Canada and pile is 4x4x4ft now.

Anita, flies require sufficient moisture, and food scraps typically release a lot of liquid when composting: Do you add any weeds or other material that can hold air in the pile?

Assuming your compost bin cover material is 8-12in thick already, fly larvae may come from meat in the food scraps: Are you composting meat?

I was wondering if anyone knows about what is a safe distance to have a humanure compost pile from my potable well head?
The place I would like to put my bin is uphill from the well head and about 100 or so feet away.  

David, officially you might lean on the setback requirements for siting an onsite waste managent treatment system (e.g. septic) in your area. Different environments impact the risk of runoff: e.g. soil absorption rate and saturation potential, snow melt on frozen ground, etc). In our county it is 50ft to the tank (contained treatment) and 100ft to the absorption area (where you'd spread the finished compost).

I would assume that the setback code requirements above are intended for a septic system meeting treatment standards (not failed). If you have concerns about your ability to keep the pile in pathogen kill temperatures (e.g. even in winter) then you might be more conservative.

Being uphill, consider also minimizing the risk of leachate in the composting process. The more water you use to wash buckets, particularly more buckets at one time, the higher probability of leachate.

Hey guys, do y'all know if baby wipes can be put in a humanure toilet + composted? I wasn't able to find that in my edition of the book.

Hi Almond, I have been putting specifically compostable baby wipes in my humanure toilet system for years with not an issue. I use Eco by Naty baby wipes. You may inspect the companies website for whichever product you use and see if they have anything that won't break down. There are a number of companies though that do sell fully compostable wipes.

Almond Thompson wrote:Hey guys, do y'all know if baby wipes can be put in a humanure toilet + composted? I wasn't able to find that in my edition of the book.

Most baby wipes are not biodegradable - they contain synthetic fibres which will not break down. If you are careful to only buy special biodegradable wipes it would probably be fine.

In practice they are not too obnoxious in small quantities - we have had them end up in our compost at various point. The biological parts break down, but the structure remains. It is easy to fish them out once the compost is finished, before the compost is used.

Does Joe's book address pharmaceuticals in humanure?? I have had a friend visiting who takes a few medicines and I am wondering if I want to treat his poo-bucket differently.

What about urine and pharmaceuticals?

Thank you dears.

Barbara Kochan wrote:Does Joe's book address pharmaceuticals in humanure?? I have had a friend visiting who takes a few medicines and I am wondering if I want to treat his poo-bucket differently.

What about urine and pharmaceuticals?

Thank you dears.

I don't have the exact answer for you but there are nuggets of wisdom/sources throughout this thread - https://permies.com/t/130579/Medication-Chart-poop-pee

Barbara Kochan wrote:Does Joe's book address pharmaceuticals in humanure?? I have had a friend visiting who takes a few medicines and I am wondering if I want to treat his poo-bucket differently.

What about urine and pharmaceuticals?

Thank you dears.

Hey Barb, I have the book. So from what I remember the microbes etc eat and break down the medicines. I remember reading a passage that said he tested compost that came from someone on chemo even and there was little to no toxins/radiation left.
Me personally, I feel that might not be accurate, but if the person isn't visiting for very long (or even if they are, honestly) I wouldn't worry about it. Your food grown with it will still be better than anything from the store.
Oh afterthought, the medicine might kill the microbes in the pile, hmmm. Probably don't use it if he/she takes any antibiotics?

thank you for the link Timothy. Somehow I did not find that in my permies search.

How many full buckets to start a pile with? I have three so far.

Almond Thompson wrote:How many full buckets to start a pile with? I have three so far.

I looked through The Humanure Handbook and The Compost Toilet Handbook to see what Joe Jenkins had to say about that before giving my own opinion.  Most frequently he just talks about loading into the compost whatever amount is convenient, but he does appear to mention as few as 1 bucket when starting a bin:

The Humanure Handbook, 3rd Ed, p173, Joe Jenkins wrote: Start the compost pile by establishing a thick layer of coarse and absorbent.... "biological sponge".... Place the first container of the humanure/sawdust mix from the toilet directly on the top center of the sponge.  Cover...

Here is another related quote seemingly suggesting a more typical loading rate:

The Compost Toilet Handbook p33, Joe Jenkins wrote: All one has to do once a week (for a family of four) or once a month (for a single person) is deposit the contents of four or five 20-liter compost receptacles into an outdoor compost bin...

In other areas he mentions even filling a bin entirely in one day.  Rather than being too strict about always keeping the compost temperature high he seems to talk about the pile eventually having enough buildup, perhaps even after freezing solid, to heat up to pathogen kill temperatures.  Rather than always striving for as hot as possible he seems to rely on a combination of factors and even suggest a benefit to keeping it below 140F.

The Compost Toilet Handbook, pp133-134, Joe Jenkins wrote: A combination of factors inhibits pathogens in compost, including:

> Competition for food from compost microorganisms

> Inhibition and antagonism by compost microorganisms

> Biological heat generated by compost microorganisms

> Antibiotics produced by compost microorganisms

.... Those factors benefit from a diverse microbial population, a diversity which is best achieved by temperatures below 140F (60C).

Barbara Kochan wrote:Does Joe's book address pharmaceuticals in humanure??.... What about urine and pharmaceuticals?

Chapter 10 of Joe Jenkin's The Compost Toilet Handbook covers what is known about composting pharmaceuticals and Heavy Metals.  In short there is some benefit for the things that have been tested but it is not a sure treatment for it.