Medication Chart - for poop and pee

Wesley Kohn wrote:

The question I want to be able to answer is whether is if we should treat someone's humanure as nuclear waste when/if they are taking various medications.  

Robert Ray wrote:Pharmaceuticals in groundwater is something I think needs to be looked at a little harder.

But then there is the question of how much is ok even if 98% is gone.

Jay Angler wrote:Grady Houger wrote:if what's gone is 98% when starting with only 1 person contributing the drug for 10 days on say a 10 acre permaculture garden, I'd be comfortable because I'd expect the healthy soil biome to be able to continue processing it or sequestering it.

Cattails and reeds are the most common plants in constructed and semi-natural wetlands for wastewater treatment, and can play an important role in both nutrient and heavy metal retention.

NANOGUARD-C
   Ideal for any application requiring ultrafiltration
   Reduces Total Suspended Solids and traps particulates as small as 5nm in size
   Expected life up to 10,000 gallons per 10” of ultrafilter, depending on water quality
   Attains and maintains high flow rate (up to 3 GPM @ 20 psi per 10” segment)
   Meets ASTM F838-05 standard on bacterial retention

Pathogen reduction in septic tank sludge through vermicomposting using Eisenia fetida.

Composting Human Waste from Denali with Worms

Compost Toilet Research Project

The adaptive potentials of those who worked in the cleanup of the aftermath of the accident at the Chernobyl Atomic Electric Power Station under the influence of different treatment methods.

Abstract

A comprehensive evaluation was done in 162 patients-liquidators of the Chernobyl accident. Of these, 80 percent were diagnosed as having stage I and II dyscirculatory encephalopathy (DE), 20 percent were in stage III. It is shown that DE progression is caused by great strain on and breakdown of autoregulatory mechanisms of different biological systems (vascular, central nervous and vegetative, hormonal), and of central regulatory mechanisms as well. Under certain conditions there may occur their breakdown, with syncopal states, crises, and even insults developing in its wake. Treatment and rehabilitation of DE liquidators with pyracetam, vinpocetine, cerebrolysine with magne B6, and phytosorbents (spirulina, quercitrol, and vitapectine) lead to reconditioning of central and autoregulatory compensatory-and-adaptive mechanisms, long-lasting remission, provide complication prophylaxis and promote work activity.

Wesley Kohn wrote:  I am rather surprised that in our over-medicated society you cannot look up a drug online and find out by what means the body disposes of it and the consequences of the drug on the environment.  It seems to me that pharmaceutical firms should be able to answer questions about secondary exposure to their drugs and whether or not plants will absorb the drug and expose others to it.

S Bengi wrote:Filtration by bio-accumulation in plants/etc , 'activated charcoal' or bio-char or soil, or nano-filters or reverse osmosis or 'artificial kidney' all begs the same question. Where do I now put this super concentrated toxic waste.

I wonder what percentage of the drugs we take end up in:
1) Urine Filtered by our kidney
2) In Feces, un-absorbed
3) Filtered by our liver sent to our bile/gall-balder/Feces.

Catherine Windrose wrote: It bothers me more to collect human waste for a longer period of time than animal waste.  

Wesley Kohn wrote:

However, I don't think either Bokashi or Jenkin's style composting will degrade pharmaceutical products.   And Metformin has caused male fish to become effeminate, so ignoring medications is not responsible land-husbandry.

It would be nice to figure out which microbes can actually turn these pharmaceuticals and metabolites into CO2. It seems that some microbes actually use the waste material to make more pharmaceuticals.

It seems like similar to heavy metals we can use plants and charcoal to filter out these toxins but where do we now dump these toxic filter?

I am thinking that if a commercial dialysis filter only requires 1% bleach to disinfect, realistically there is less to be concerned with than sad authorities claim.

Mike Barkley wrote:My thoughts are that the filter manufacturer uses the term disinfect to indicate that harmful biologicals are made safe with bleach. I think that does not mean that chemicals & medications would be eliminated or possibly even affected. Any of those things trapped by the filter would still be present. Purification & disinfection are two different things.

NANOGUARD-C
  Ideal for any application requiring ultrafiltration
  Reduces Total Suspended Solids and traps particulates as small as 5nm in size
  Expected life up to 10,000 gallons per 10” of ultrafilter, depending on water quality
  Attains and maintains high flow rate (up to 3 GPM @ 20 psi per 10” segment)
  Meets ASTM F838-05 standard on bacterial retention

Denise Cares wrote:To answer the first question of what is a reliable source to know how a drug is metabolized you simply have to look up the drug in a PDR (Physician's Desk Reference).  This is a gigantic book available for purchase at a hefty price or check on-line at www.pdr.net.  E-mail for info to: < customer.service@medec.com>.  You might also check at the local library or a medical library if you live near one.  Many doctor's offices, clinics, and all pharmacies and hospitals have them for use by the staff in various departments. In this reference book you'll find info on pharmacokinetics, metabolism, elimination of drug and route of elimination, half life and other detailed info about drug interactions, uses, warnings, etc.  There are also PDR's for other things like Nutritional Supplements, Herbal Medicines and Nonprescription Drugs.  You might even ask a medical professional or library if they would give you their old/retired copy when they update to a new edition.  

Jay Angler wrote:"The solution to pollution is dilution" - The Magic Schoolbus

There are *lots* of good questions here, but my "common sense" meter says:
1. There's a big difference between 1 person composting just their own humanure and on drugs for months vs
2. One out of 10 people adding to a humanure pile who's on a single anitbiotic for 10 days.

do all the Permies know of the human body composting going on in Washington state and the folks idea/plan/business has done so well that they are expanding.

Jay Angler wrote:Terry Byrne wrote:

do all the Permies know of the human body composting going on in Washington state and the folks idea/plan/business has done so well that they are expanding.

Absolutely! I really hope they manage to expand and spread the concept, not just in the US, but worldwide. I can picture some version of this in a shipping container that could be moved to a site of a disaster, so that survivors wouldn't be in increased danger due to decomposing bodies polluting water etc.

I recall from what I saw, that testing the compost for common dangers is part of the process. People who die from cancer and many other chronic diseases are on all sorts of medications which may require special conditions to decompose. Those drugs may not "go away" on their own, but using fossil fuels to burn mostly water seems a waste. It seems better to do the research so we learn ways to decompose things or sequester them safely and save the alternatives for situations where it is the only solution.

If burning is the only safe option for the final stage, can anyone picture a humane-sized solar dehydrator to get the water out first? The smell might be too much of an issue to overcome, but it's the idea of thinking up better ways to deal with drugs than sending them, via a sewage treatment plant, out into our waterways? It might take research by a volunteer/charitable organization, because the very nature of this is not going to make bucks for Big Business.

Terry Byrne wrote:

Jay Angler wrote: Those drugs may not "go away" on their own, but using fossil fuels to burn mostly water seems a waste. It seems better to do the research so we learn ways to decompose things or sequester them safely and save the alternatives for situations where it is the only solution.

If burning is the only safe option for the final stage, can anyone picture a humane-sized solar dehydrator to get the water out first?

This certainly ain't my AofE but I wonder what freeze drying might do, both for the chemical aspect [not much I suspect] and  removing all the water in the ex-human.

Ivonne Buckley wrote:One thought is using hyperaccumilator plants which have been used to remediate soil from metal toxins. There are published journal articles using them for pharma waste

Rather than buying filters, I think biofilms could be a productive strategy to experiment with... and, as they have fungal components, include the superpower I just mentioned.

And if industry and government had consulted me, I would have recommended a cradle to grave policy

Terry Byrne wrote:

Ivonne Buckley wrote:One thought is using hyperaccumilator plants which have been used to remediate soil from metal toxins. There are published journal articles using them for pharma waste

Very interesting!! The things a body [this one] doesn't know!!!

Do such plants permanently contain the things they accumulate or are they re-released or sent down to the root system? In other words do they ever escape, say when that plant dies?