Wheaton's Law of Subjective Crazy

When I was in college, every tuesday, thursday and saturday I would serve up sourdough pancakes. My house would be packed with friends. I eventually had to stop because things would often times not wrap up until late afternoon - and I had lots to do. But it was fun while it lasted.

Later, at the greenlake house, I started something similar. It was also an open thing. And it was excellent and lots of people came.

Until ....

This one woman came. I can't remember her name. All I remember is that everything was great except for her. She never did anything wrong. Nor was she a bad person in any way. But, somehow, I would rather that she did not come. I realized that I had become some sort of snob. And that the problem was within myself - so I tried to be a better person. I did nothing about it.

The numbers quickly thinned and several of the former attendees said exactly the same thing as above: it's her; don't have a valid reason. One friend who is a professional poet (yes, it turns out that these two words actually can go together) explained it best, but the explanation took an hour. My feeble attempt to summarize is that, through no fault of her own, she just drains the souls of others.

If I were to try to name her biggest crime, it was that she would interrupt people to say something that was not interruption worthy.

- - -

At the same time, I tend to avoid parties and most other gatherings. Both for the comfort of myself and for the comfort of the people at the gathering. Jocelyn has taken me to events and I attempt to be relatively mute.

Nearly everybody seems to not only enjoy small talk, but it seriously feeds them. They drink deeply at the small talk well and become nourished and strong. I have never mastered it ... hell, what am I saying, forget "mastered" - I think in the school of small talk I am still in kindergarten. But I know that it does not feed me. In fact, it might even be a little kryptonite-esque.

Inevitably somebody will feel it is their social duty to engage me in conversation. Very nice people. Well meaning people. Lovely people by the standards of nearly everybody. I would like to please them, but .... I'm just not wired that way. They will fish for a topic of interest with the intent of having a ten minute conversation of small talk - and they move to the next person. This well meaning, good and decent person is stepping into a trap. I don't want to be a trap, but, again, this is how I'm wired. I should avoid these social things so that these lovely people can be spared.

"What do you do?"

What is it that I do? Web stuff? Writer? Youtube? Duke-ing? When I sense that they are good people and I have the strength to fight "my wiring" I will say "writer."

But I have powerful humor needs too. So, there are several times I have gone with "porn star". I go with this not only because my physique screams to the contrary, but with my dishes video, where I wash a load of dishes, a woman once commented that a video of a man washing dishes is a type of porn for women. The fact that uttering the word "porn" in polite company is horribly unacceptable makes it even funnier. To me.

I know that when asked "what do you do?" that the right thing to respond with is something that can be quickly glossed over, complete with a mild dismissal as if my work has no significance, and then answer "what do YOU do?!" as if I've been waiting for hours for the chance to ask the question - because clearly they are amazing and I wish to become their new disciple for the next 9.6 minutes. But the reality is that I seriously don't care. My level of apathy is so extreme, that I might openly yawn - despite trying desperately hard not to.

I think the worst is if they do gardening. "I heard that you garden?" Oh no. They should flee. The gardening that they do is probably something that brings them a form of joy. Maybe even peace. They are probably exceptionally proud of what they do. And yet, they have now pushed the button and program is started. The first line of the program in my head looks a bit like this: "maybe this party is not a total waste - while I am here, I might be able to convince one person to give up their miracle gro" (there is no "w" in "miracle gro") "and reduce the amount of water they waste every year. Maybe even get them to stop planting things in rows, stop making compost piles and, who knows, maybe even convert them entirely to permaculture." In other words, a crazy guy is about to destroy your gardening joy forever.


(a pic from this blog)

- - -

At the sourdough pancake event, people came. Too many people, really. And not just for free food, because I always seemed to end up with more food than when I started. So, in a way, feeding a crowd pancakes somehow generates food.

So, people that would come seemed to be able to tolerate me just fine. And since I talked as much as I wanted about whatever I wanted, and fully subjected this group to my crazy and they kept coming back for more - then I guess there are a few people that find my stuff to be okay. Might I refer to these folks as "my people"? And the one woman who brought the event to an end was not "my people." Somehow. So "my people" appeared to have standards, plus they were sensitive to these standards. I fit in and the woman did not.

Maybe that woman would be a perfect fit for other gatherings where I don't fit. When the people at those gatherings suffer from my presence, might it be the same evaluation? Am I "soul draining"? Somehow I guess that I might be actually "soul crushing".

All this leads to my theory, which is probably nothing new to anybody (I just feel the need to express it): each person will be the perfect guest at some gatherings and the worst at others. Rather than trying to mold a person to fit into a group or all groups, permit people to find the groups that sport their flavor of crazy.

Because I wish to build on this thought, and I think it takes a long time to describe, I've decided to call it "Wheaton's Law of Subjective Crazy". Maybe by just trying to attach a label to it, thirty people will pop out and explain that there are already many labels for this, in which case I can edit this post to use the common name.

- - -

While on this topic, I have one last thing: I think there are people that can fit into almost any group. It is as if they have superpowers. And then there is the other end of the spectrum, people that fit into almost no group. The extremely weird.

So, if you are extremely weird and pretty much socially unacceptable, how do you find your people? I would like to suggest that you create a web site and make lots of podcasts.

Lovely post!
I would like to urge you to unleash your true nature upon these gatherings. You are certain to be thought provoking to the thoughtfull and probably just provoke everyone else,but no one is likely to die either way,and more fun will be had.

Like overalls, your true nature will shield you from boring people and them from you!

Paul I know of another "writer" like you And have engaged in his forums, podcasts etc. during which I connected with many different types of people, all autistic to some degree or another. I wondered why I was basically a kin with these people, but had never identified myself as autistic. I considered it a lot and came up with the idea that there is something about each persons internal experience that will attract or repel others. If people are coming from a place of similar internal experience, then there can be some resonance between them and they might inspire each other or exchange a dialog of ideas. If they come from different internal experiences they might not recognize each other's humanness, stop exchanging ideas, and stop wanting to not be around one another.

To further the theory of Wheaton's law of subjective crazy I propose that crazy is actually a continuum just like space and time. If someone is creating massive content and people are reading and listening with interest it creates a mass that causes gravity in the area. Just like heavier planets will pull in more and more bodies as they move through crazy... I mean space. A person with good content will pull in more and more listeners, readers and watchers as their gravity increases in craziness. As they get more massive they sink deeper and deeper into the surface of the crazy continuum along with everyone else listening and watching them. Could there be a permaculture black hole?

Interesting about the autism theory.

I've discovered that most of my facebook friends who I interact with regularly have aspergers, or score very highly on aspergers tests, or have autistic kids. So I'm very much into the 'birds of a feather' theory.

As for a permaculture black hole, let's keep working towards critical mass!

Hah! My son has an Asburgers diagnosis. Knowing him has made me see many of my life long friends in a different light.
His "broadcast telepathy ", inexplicable understanding of math, obliviousness to social norms,immunity to cognitive dissonance,and purple view of the world have parallels in many of my "found family ".

He is twenty,still hugs me, and wears a tail to his college classes.
Yeah, my tribe often doesn't know and/or doesn't care "how to fit in "
I've taught him how to,as best as I can. Why or if he should is up to him.

Zach's addendum to WLSC caused a bit of a brainstorm for me. As Zach suggests, a mass of quality content has powerful gravity. Now, that quality content is personified in the individual creator himself. So, here is my observation:

1 - Some objects (people) may be drawn in at such an angle/velocity that they end up in orbit around said mass and not crash into it. There are people who enjoy the gravitational pull toward the mass, but have enough of their own velocity and mass to only be caught in orbit.
2 - Some people's own mass and velocity can be powerful. My observation is that there is such a thing as the mutually orbiting system (e.g., the Wheaton-Holzer twin system or the Judy-Shepard twin system or the Lawton-Mollison twin system) at velocities enough to maintain their own distinctiveness, yet powerful enough that their gravitational pull locks them into orbit around each other.
3 - Others' velocities may take them close to a larger mass of quality content that draws them in fully, pulling them out of an orbital trajectory into the mass itself and their own energy is absorbed as part of the larger whole.
4 - Finally, some objects (people) are moving at what I will call the oblivious velocity and though they may pass close to the mass of quality content or its personified representative and yet not be impacted by the pull at all.

I know this appears at surface to be divergent from Paul's initial observations about social interaction, but think about the "party" and the "pancake feed" examples Paul gave. When a mass moves through others masses it can have a dramatic effect, sometimes creative, sometimes very destructive (meteorite that hit Russia recently). The woman Paul describes seems like a mass moving through the universe of the pancake feed causing displacement or velocity interruption to all those she moves through. In the "party" example, Paul is the stationary mass (no pun intended) by which other masses move around, some crash into him and are absorbed by his energy, others move in and end up in orbit, while some just fly on by. This all depending on how much gravitational force Paul chooses to "impose" in the given environment.

Now, knowing this ahead of time, one can manipulate the social situation by how much gravity they want to (or unwittingly) impose.

Maybe we call this Zach's corollary to WLSC. This is fun stuff.

That's interesting about the autism/aspergers overlap. I also score high on those tests, and find myself comfortable/"fitting-in" with others who lean that way. I also am an "INFJ" in Meyers Briggs terminology, which is also the rarest type... and there are quite a few other "INFJ" (and similar rare types) on permies (https://permies.com/t/40318/md/ENTJ#315036), and there are also quite a few of those same (rare) types on the autism forums (http://www.wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=67764&start=765). It'd be interesting to see just how much of an overlap there is!

Awkwardness at parties is something that is shown on the British TV show,  Doc Martin, the title character. He has trouble meeting with people who are bright enough to understand what he does and he is subjected to hours of boring talk.

Whenever my children host an event,  they warn me that the whole world does not want to learn about farming, forestry policy and demolition. Once I arrive at the event, I usually find that at least half of the people are interested in those things. I find a comfortable spot, and pontificate until I become hoarse or the event ends.

I blatantly sell my services, even if the event is a wedding or a funeral. I have left such events with lists of people who are looking for bricks,  firewood,  lumber,  etc.

At the Starbucks this morning, I taught three people how to do no till potatoes. I went into Permies and showed them my photographs. Sometimes people question my knowledge of the subject at hand, so I show them that I am the author of whatever it is I'm showing. For many, this is absolute proof. The perfect way to make sure that the internet backs up your opinion,  is for you to post it on the internet.

Awkwardness, high school. Need I say more?

My problem is kinda similar; I don't like small talk because I think it is irrelevant and useless. I would much rather be discussing current events, new research findings, the latest technology, permaculture, free public airings of stuff like The Symphony of the Soil, applications of various concepts from many disciplines, etc etc. Stuff that could actually affect the world. Or straight up useful stuff like cleaning toilets with cola cola, easy to grow veggies, and more.

Then, comes the part of me not having a filter in my mouth. Through a discussion I had with myself a long time ago, I decided that I'd throw social taboos out the window because they cause an irrational fear of certain branches of knowledge, and for an efficient and good society, I think that an open discussion of anything and everything is necessary.

One of the things that gets me, maybe not in trouble, but surprises people is when they ask the question, "How are you?". It is such an open ended question. No time period specified, no subject matter, just me. SO I might tell them exactly how my morning went, every detail. How I might have had constipation or diarrhea and which food I think caused it and how I'm going to try testing that by not eating that thing and see what changes. Or how I plan to get all the wine glasses out of the cabinet when everyone is away and get a cup of water and play a finger orchestra on them by rubbing my fingers around the rims of the glasses. It's quite fun seeing how loud I can get the glasses to be. I haven't broken any of them yet!

Man, no wonder I like this place - it all makes sense now.

"How are you?", "What have you been working on?", "What do you think of...?" - all lead to mayhem and tears, oh, those beautiful tears. What's weird is some of those people invite me back, not sure if that is good or not.

I am noticing a common theme here, not only among many permies, but also among my friends who are not permies. There seems to be a group of people who are "normal", which is another way of saying mostly worried about what other people think about them, so they do what they think other people think is "normal". Then it seems to me that there are other people, which is how I see most permies and my non-permie friends, who are people who do and say things that are not "normal". Many of these activities and levels of inquiry require deeper thinking or commitment to action that most people aren't going to do because they are doing "normal' things like watching TV, surfing the internet about celebrities' lives, going shopping,gambling, drinking as a form of recreation and playing video games. As a result, the questions we ask and the activities we pursue aren't really going to be worth diving into for people who are committed to looking normal on the outside, and most of us would rather spend time with people who challenge themselves in more interesting ways that aren't so "normal".
John S
PDX OR

Yes, yes. I agree so much with that statement John! Last year in high school we got a new German instructor because our old one was promoted to district department chair. So our new one didn't know what to do and really didn't care. So it turned into a philosophy which was so much fun! He made statements that were controversial or just plain incorrect which got us a little peeved. But we didn't mind because he at allowed us to have debates over the statements and assess their validity. We were right most the times, and then we'd argue more and get off topic. And he was quite gracious when he got defeated in arguments; he enjoyed learning from us. It was fun because we got to do on the spot research and debate and everybody had fun doing it. No one got upset and participation was not mandatory. He had to leave after one year because, well, he didn't do his job. We didn't learn any German what-so-ever.

But that year made me quite happy because I got to have deep conversations on stuff that mattered, and I miss that so much. A few of my friends are into having deep discussions on things with me, but I only get to talk with them in the passing period. And my family just thinks I'm a tad nutty, like where'd this kid come from? Maybe I didn't fall too far from the tree; my mom is a chemist, and my dad's an engineer. But neither of them exactly want to talk about anything big or actually changing how things are. I tried making a financial and environmental argument with my parents to stop mowing the lawn and weed-whacking. Didn't work. then, I tried arguing that it was a health hazard to mow the lawn and weed whack. Didn't work either.

A good hint that I learned in my AP Environmental Science class last year was that if it smells, it is an incomplete combustion which can be dangerous. A complete combustion produces water and CO2 which should not smell. Ashes, soot, and other nasties like NO, NO2, and incompletely combusted carbohydrates will make it smell. It isn't a completely true statement, but it is a nice rule of thumb.

Just like Rocket Mass Heaters. Something that we're interested in but most people say- why do you care? Or Bio Char.

I know what you mean about the conversations. I'm a substitute teacher. Sometimes the kids are getting their work done, and one of them on the side wants to talk about something with an adult who is not their parent and isn't grading them. Those are some of my favorite conversations. I never know what they're going to be about until I'm in them, though.
John S
PDX OR

Paul I love that pic and caption you posted. It's just such an out-of-left field slap! I even went and looked at the post you took it from, there's no more context there. Just somebody who obviously doesn't like your style and used their blog to share that sort of randomly with the world.

There are folks we all know with "Turd in the punch bowl" personalities. The harder they try to fit in the more akward the situation becomes. It's even worse when you realize you're the one making everyone around feel awkward.

I think the perfect reply to "what do you do" is I either I listen or I talk. Which would you prefer?

I can relate to that; I can't help inflicting my individuality on people and it does create some discomfort, but superficiality turns me off and inevitably I'll break forth with a socially unacceptable diatribe or three. A friend once told me he heard somebody say "everybody lives in his own screwball world." We decided that was pretty profound and that our worlds' orbits must have been in close proximity. The rest might as well be living out past Pluto.

Thumbs up for "porn star" that gave me a chuckle.

Also, "In other words, a crazy guy is about to destroy your gardening joy forever. " Or it could be argued that a crazy guy is about to BRING them gardening joy forever.

And as to the caption, I could imagine that Paul would write such things about himself, and don't really get a feeling that it was meant to be an insult.

This is a great post. One I think 99% of permies have probably encountered before. We know we should give our "elevator speech" for permaculture, but opt for a simpler way out of awkward conversation. Paul, I would love to hear a bit more about your conversations leading people not to compost. I am guessing you try to get people away from it because they are often doing it poorly and breeding pathogens?

Dan Boone wrote:Paul I love that pic and caption you posted. It's just such an out-of-left field slap! I even went and looked at the post you took it from, there's no more context there. Just somebody who obviously doesn't like your style and used their blog to share that sort of randomly with the world.

That guy is a permie and has done a lot for the empire.

This is one of my all time favorite pics. And it is the wording that goes with it that makes it fun (for me).

When I posted this, I was certain that people would point out that this is called "the flibbertygibbet effect" or "the principle of warknuttle" or something.

I feel a bit like newton saying "I call it gravity". It's a thing we are all aware of, but surely I am not the first to name it.

William Bronson wrote: Lovely post!
I would like to urge you to unleash your true nature upon these gatherings. You are certain to be thought provoking to the thoughtfull and probably just provoke everyone else,but no one is likely to die either way,and more fun will be had.

Like overalls, your true nature will shield you from boring people and them from you!

There are times where I live my life the way that is comfortable to me. And there are times where I hold my tongue.

Jocelyn has taken me to several events (like her mother's for the holidays, or a meeting of her friends) and I do not wish to make Jocelyn's life more difficult.

To further the theory of Wheaton's law of subjective crazy I propose that crazy is actually a continuum just like space and time.

I think the flavor of "crazy" we are exploring at the moment is not only subjective, but relative to the observer. "Crazy" might be another way of expressing "living a life unlike mine" or "living a life that does not make sense with my value set." And, it could even be quantifiable so that one person might be 37 units of crazy, and another is 11 units of crazy.

So much here. i don't "mix" well at social functions where I don't know people, as a general rule. There is a very simple reason that has taken a very long time to recognize and admit, I have a deep seated fear of rejection. I don't want to start talking with someone and have them brush me off or shut me down or otherwise "reject" me.
That I am likely to be willing to talk your ear off about my latest interest may increase the odds that your eyes will glaze over and you will desparately seek someone else to go talk with...

Here is the thing - virtually everyone is like this. They have some passion they will talk about incessantly, they want to be liked, they don't want to be rejected, and talking about trivial stuff really doesn't appeal to them any more than it does to us.

But unless our passions are aligned, we are likely each to think the other is talking about trivial stuff...with the result that we have nothing to talk about and it gets awkward.

Subjective crazy is certainly a reality; Joe is a truck guy, whose big joy in life is offroading and getting his truck tricked out for doing that; Jim can relate a bit, because his thing is hunting and that four wheel truck is great for getting to the hunting spots and hauling out that big feral hog; Jane is a different kind of hunter - she shops to live and could not care less about trucks that she can barely climb into, much less load her loot into; Mary always brings new and different food to the parties because she is only happy in the kitchen. And so it goes, on and on.

There are a few people that are genuinely good at conversation with anyone about anything,nthat can make you feel like they are interested in whatever it is that you are interested in. For those people, their passion is People. They really like talking with others and seeing what lights them up. They may never want to shoot a buck or put up a rooster tail of mud, but they really enjoy hearing people talking about things they love.

So, we are all normal. Nothing particularly special, we are just like everybody else. Most of them are uncomfortable at those parties too, until they find their tribe.

Hey good day everyone. Great posts.

One bit of small talk that we should get rid of is "how are you" to strangers. Like honestly its fine for most people. Some people its sorta going towards rude.
My favorite is at the doctors office waiting room. Its sorta obvious people that show up there are not great or good. So I think we can skip over that bit of small talk unless your the doctor.

Sam Billings wrote: Paul, I would love to hear a bit more about your conversations leading people not to compost. I am guessing you try to get people away from it because they are often doing it poorly and breeding pathogens?

Sam, I whipped up some of my thoughts for you in a new thread:

https://permies.com/t/43333/composting/downsides-compsting

"You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but never all of the people all of the time."

Your topic wound around that axiom quite nicely. All of us are strange birds to someone or many, but it is this uniqueness that makes the world such a rich place. It may be that the "richness" is not to your liking, but perhaps that is why we tend to hang around and attract those that share some our own uniqueness so as to create, like you suggested, a localized bit of crazy that we do feel comfortable with.

There is a trap in this though. If you have ideas and principles that the world can benefit from, perhaps preaching to the choir may be more comfortable, but unhelpful to society in general. This blog and website is a good start, but perhaps a way should be found to subject those, who may be uncomfortable with your particular "Crazy", to some of the quite innovative ideas presented in this small gravity well you have created.

Good Luck, and thanks for your effort.

The most annoying thing that I find coming up in social settings, is endless comparison and discussion of tattoos. Shirts get rolled up and people give long convoluted explanations about why they have a motorcycle running up the inside of their thigh, or a cobra wrapped around their neck.

I can tell by the enthusiastic delivery, that the speaker thinks the artwork makes them a more interesting person. I don't see it as art anymore. I think tattoos have become a social lubricant that helps the person gain acceptance amongst like minded people.

So true. That made me laugh Dale. Image and perspective dictate which, "social lubricant that helps the person gain acceptance amongst like minded people.", is required.

So I feel like crazy would or could be defined as a difference of perspective directly related to how far down the permi rabbit hole you have traveled. It's very difficult not to overwhelm those folks still just poking around the entrance ( wow that's crazy you don't know this already),and sometimes hard to relate to those that have passed through the event horizon ( wow I have no idea what you just said and it might be because you are crazy)...

I don't see it as art anymore. I think tattoos have become a social lubricant that helps the person gain acceptance amongst like minded people.

Haha, we must roll in very, very different crowds, Dale. My "people" have historically considered tattoos the first step on the road to devil worship.

I've been that crazy guy all my life

I don't fit into society because they don't care about things that should
(in my mind)
really matter

I think people are crazy they think I am so I guess I fit in here.
nothing in common with 99 % of people I know

I always liked this quote by Eleanor Roosevelt : "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."
If discussing people is not your pair of shoes, then small talk is not for you methinks. I'm very far from calling myself great mind, but nevertheless I have quite a problem to carry on meaningless conversations. The older I am, the less patience for that. On the other hand, in a group of people who share same interests, we can talk hour and hours and hours. Usually people who do not fit, or simply are not interested, never show up again.
Finding online a right group that shares same craze is so easy these days, thanks to social media, but in a real world it might be a challenge. Starting online, and then converting that into real-life connections is the best way to go in my opinion, especially if you are not living in a city.
Great post Paul!

Kirk:

An old man arrives the doctors office and goes to the receptionist.

"I need to see the doctor about my penis," he said.

Visibly appalled, the receptionist replied, "Sir, it is highly inappropriate to discuss such personal matters so that everyone in the waiting room can hear you. You should have invented an ailment and then discussed your issue with the doctor privately."

Confused, the man left but returned a few moments later.

"I need to see the doctor about my ear," the man said.

Relieved, the receptionist smiled and said, "And what is the nature of the problem with your ear?"

"I can't piss out of it."
---

Instead of expecting social niceties, sometimes it's better to leave well enough alone.

Let's call it "Wheaton's 2nd Law of Level Water:" In social settings, people of similar interests will tend towards the same location.

It's not a matter of crazy; it's just a matter of non-aligning interests. The world needs lawyers (well, bad example), and the world needs farmers.
Some people like to discuss law and politics and religion. Others, just listening to such discussion makes them nauseous.
At large parties, while I can tolerate the chit-chat for a few minutes; but, after ten minutes, you'll usually find me with my back in a corner of the room. I consider such settings a total waste of time.
Choose your setting; choose your battles. Life's too short to let other people's stuff bother you. When you're confronted by their "craziness," just remember that it's their 90%.
Just deal with your 10% and let it slide.

More than likely, it's just that you're traveling in different circles that have just a smidgen of overlap that brings them into your sphere.
Here's an analogy:
At my 10-year high school reunion, all my acquaintances were in their accumulation phase, and felt compelled to thrill me with their high-paying jobs, their quasi-partnership status, etc.
By the time we got to our 40th reunion, the same fellows had gone through that phase and now couldn't care less what anyone else was doing. They were more concerned with their colesterol, high blood pressure, and kids that gave them constant grief.
Imagine if one of those 10-year reunion fellows had joined in a conversation at our 40-year reunion!

Personally, I'm a recovering lawyer. [I completed step 9 - apologizing those I those I abused through arrogance.] I look back on my testosterone-laden youth with a mix of angst and relief.
10 years ago, I set my sights on permaculture farming as my 2nd half. These days, my wife calls the YouTube and other videos I watch "Farm-Porn."
That suits me just fine.

paul wheaton wrote:

Dan Boone wrote:Just somebody who obviously doesn't like your style and used their blog to share that sort of randomly with the world.

That guy is a permie and has done a lot for the empire.

This is one of my all time favorite pics. And it is the wording that goes with it that makes it fun (for me).

Actually I like the picture quite a lot. But once again the internet strips context and makes things hard to parse. That's the sort of caption a friend might write to razz, or a hater might write in all seriousness. I thought by going and looking at the blog -- where everything else I saw at a quick glance looked totally straight, no joshin' -- that I could tell which it was. Obviously I got it wrong because I don't know the dude, the context, or the history. That's life on the internet I guess!

Thank you Paul - I came home to escape to Permies since the past couple of weeks have been grey with steady meaningless BS and people spending so much time bashing others to simply feel better about themselves. Between our nursery and the farm, I just don't want to spend my downtime being nice to people that really aren't nice, just because we live in the same town. Maybe it's the lack of sunshine that's got me in this funk!

Best response I ever heard to the horrible "So, what do you do?" My friend always answered "About what?" He was one of the few people I loved hanging out with, god I miss him!

This is fascinating stuff! As a 5 foot tall person with albinisim, I understand not fitting in to a group. I tend to keep my crazy to myself unless I have a good reason to let it out. Initially, I did that to protect myself, now I do it because my hobbies don't fall into the norm on any scale, so I protect THEM...my fall down the permaculture hole just made that more obvious to me. I have sent many people away with a deer caught in headlights look!

I'm gonna borrow this, Marianne........

Best response I ever heard to the horrible "So, what do you do?" My friend always answered "About what?"

That question, along with 'How are you?' always make me cringe and feel as though I am being put on the spot.

I am intrigued at the connection of "Subjective Crazy" and "Gravity".
However, I believe the social norms we are subjected to ,(pun intended), in this "anticivilization", leave the concept of "Individual thought" in the subjective dust!
Like minds will "Gravitate towards each other" while those of differing thought patterns will tend to repel. Powerfully focused individuals such as Paul, will experience the widest possible extremes of such attraction and repulsion. Of course, I am no expert, just another "crazy" attempting to "fit in"!


BTW.....I am VERY grateful for all you guys do, and the info that flows profoundly from all here! Thank you!