BB clarification thread

There's a BB for making a dust pan already: dustpan

It definitely wouldn't work to make one for an RMH BB, doubly so since there's a BB for it already

Thank you Mike!!  Very new to the community and deeply appreciative for your direction on this!!  Did not know that there was a dustpan one. Not sure why that didn't come up in previous posts, but glad it did now  Did I just not see it in the list?  That is likely...my apologies on that. --Tess

No problem Tess, it's at the Straw level of PEP...  Welcome!

If I was going to attempt the 800 plates BB: https://permies.com/wiki/150418/pep-food-prep-preservation/Prepare-Plates-Food-food-wood

I'm trying to figure out what "plate" means. If I make a casserole that's 3000 Calories, is that six plates for purposes of the log? And would I need to show it served on actual plates or would showing the baking dish full with proof of the contents be fine? If I serve three big salads that are 350 Calories each to my family, can I count that as two plates (1050 Cals) on the log or does it count as nothing because the plates we served/ate weren't 500 Cals?

When I'm thinking about the 98% and 75% rules, is that measured by weight, volume, Calories, or what?

And is showing either the patch of the garden where a thing is harvested or the canned tomato sauce shelf in the cellar proof of the ingredient's homestead origin? What is expected to be shown?

I think it is a little bit vague on purpose as there is so much variety in what people eat.

However, the bb says

Minimum requirements for this BB:
 - “Plate” means a meal averaging 500 calories
 -

Personally, I would err on the side of caution and make it as easy as possible to be aproved.  Make most plates well over 500 calories.  You can always have leftovers if the person can't eat it all in one sitting.

If the person has to ask "is that an average of 500cper plate...over 800 plates?"  There will probability be a long delay before it gets approved.   It isn't fair to the volunteer judging the submission to make them do that work for you.

So...if I was judging the submission, I would want to see at least one portion on a plate next to the casserole so it's obvious that there are 5 more plates worth in the casserole.

Just pretend I am the one judging and make it so simple a 6 year old, or me, would have trouble finding a reason to reject it

r ransom wrote:I think it is a little bit vague on purpose as there is so much variety in what people eat.

Making it vague also makes it harder for the people to complete them and for them to be judged.

Rebekah read the 500 calories per plate a certain way, she didn't hide it. No one corrected her, no one said she read it wrong.

If the SKIP program is to help people learn, letting them work a something for over a year and then judge it "that isn't what we meant" when they were clear that is what they understood, that isn't the way.

r ransom wrote: would have trouble finding a reason to reject it

When rules are vague and tasks are complicated, people can usually find reasons to reject it. People are different and their minds work differently.

Over the last two days I've spent a lot of time in this discussion.

How much of past approvals do we apply to future ones?

If past approvals and approvers didn't meet the requirements, are we going to decertify the bb years later?  Just to avoid people saying "well, so and so got away with it, i demand i can too"

We haven't decided a path for those old ones.


There are two things becoming clear in the many hours if discussion

1. We are improving on how we enforce the bb requirements when evaluating a submission.  

Just because someone slipped by before you, doesn't mean you can too.  The requirements on the first post supercedes the previous approvals.

Trying to cheat the system with  "well, so and so got away with it, i demand i can too" is annoying the heck out out the volunteers and potential otis (who have expressed time and again that they value the ability to follow directions over the actual task done).  

2. The first principle of permaculture is to observe and adjust.

With each submission, we learn more about how the SKIP system interacts with reality.  

What this basically ends up looking like, is the first few people to do a bb, tend to um...have an easier time of getting through... while we observe and adjust.

The requirements to fulfill the bb are not vague.

What is a plate and how to show it - that has wiggle room right now because people have different sized plates, different diets.  My dietitian says a plate of food for the main meal (aka, the meal with more than 500 calories)  has all 7 food groups...not everyone eats all 7 food groups.   That's where vague comes in.  That's why it's not asking for the health authority definition of a "plate".

An example.

Maybe I made the 6 plate casserole.  I can show it in a casserole dish, but this is difficult for a person to judge the size.

I can show it on 6 different plates.  That would be extremely easy to judge.

But what if I don't have 6 people to eat it, or 6 plates to display it?  If it said displayed on 6 actual plates, I could not complete the bb.  Thus leaving it up to the person to show they did it in the most obvious way possible.

This is the vague part of the requirements - how to show this in a way that makes it easy for the VOLUNTEER to approve.  But one still has to meet the requirements set out by the first post of the bb.

For this badge bit, you will prepare 800 plates of food!


Requirements for all Food Prep and Preservation Wood BB's:
- 98% of the food for this badge is “organic or better”
- 75% of the food comes from homesteading, preferably from your own homestead
 - Nearby homestead or wild harvest (forage/hunting/fishing) is ok
     - Their food values need to be “organic or better”
     - Acquired with muscle power (bike/horse/foot/dogsled)
     - Trade, purchase, or gifted is fine

Minimum requirements for this BB:
 - “Plate” means a meal averaging 500 calories
 - Food prep log (your thread at Permies) showing each meal with a description of where the food came from
     - Each post covers at least 3 meals
     - Summarizes the source of the ingredients (store or homestead)
     - Maintain a total count of plates produced

What part of this is still vague?

I remember a moment in high school when I unlocked the cheat codes to get perfect A+ in every single long answer test or asignment.

At the time I had undiagnosed dyslexia and it took me about 12 times longer to read and write than the other students.  I was having an especially bad day and then there was a very important exam they forgot to tell us about that afternoon.  

So incredibly tired.  I try so hard and fail at EVERY F-ing THING in my life.  Why is it so hard?

The exam was five very long essays in under two hours.

In my horrible state of mind, I can barely understand the question.  So I took each question and re-wrote it in point form.  Then I wrote a short version of what each answer would look like or what information I am missing so I can't answer.  

And two hours were up.  I didn't write the five essays.  I didn't write nearly 3 thousand words demanded of us.  I wrote fewer than a hundred words.  Not a single essay.  Not a single paragraph.  Not even a single functioning sentence.

---

I'm the only one who got 100% score on that exam.

Everyone else got below 80%

I asked the teacher why.  What happened.  Am I going to get in trouble because you confused me with another student?  Do we quietly need to switch scores with Mr Over Achiever over there?

The teacher responded - you are the only one who showed they read the questions.

And with a bit more pressing, I found out the teacher had to mark 200 of these 5 essay exams overnight because of the same admin mix-up that meant we had no notice of a massively important exam - the scores had to be in by 9am the next day.  All this on top of having an even worse day than myself.  The exams that got to the point, had legible hand writing, and were basically kind to the teacher - these got high scores.  The rest, did not.

---

Prove I read the question
Prove I care about the teacher marking the exams

Could it be that easy?  

---

Yes.

I tried it for the next exam.  Show I understood the question, show I knew how to answer it.  Stop adding fluff to my essays or doing things that make life harder for the person marking the exam.

It worked.  It kept on working well into university and even the post grad classes I was taking.  So simple.  But working!

It was about taking responsibility to make my work as easy to approve as possible, rather than blaming the teachers for not figuring out what I ment.

And it extends to essay writing assignments too.  Remember to be kind to the poor person marking the thing.  

First paragraph non boring showing I understand the question
answer the question as quickly and simply as possible
show my sources
conclude by restating the question in a different way.

I went from being the worst student in the school to graduating with honours and some of the best marks.  

All because one day I accidently learned that the easy path is to make my teachers life as easy as possible.

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Or to make it relevant to this thread.  To be as kind as possible to the person evaluating the BB.
- show you read and understand the instructions
- make it super easy to say "yep, done good".

I have the hardest time knowing what might qualify for the Oddball Badge (not any of the in-badge-oddball-stuff like homesteading).  I'm loathe to submit something that wastes an evaluator's time and energy. The prospect of negative BBVs is probably a factor, too.

A wreath I made entirely of evergreen branches and no fasteners?? (maybe community if it's art applied to a named place? --it wasn't)
A door whose latch and lock broke that I had to then pry open to get back inside so I could remove the faulty parts? (probably homesteading oddball?)

Patching a rotted piece of door frame into which a bifold door pin holder is failing to attach properly? (probably homesteading oddball again?)
Replacing the dented fender on a bicycle with a replacement the factory sent? (probably actual oddball, but perhaps not 7 minutes of time for a pro?)

Whenever I look in the oddball badge thread for guidance/inspiration, whatever's sick in my brain focuses on things I 'can't' do... lacking the skill or the occasion to do, and I freeze and still have no oddball points.

*I've typed and deleted this post numerous times over the years... where does this go? In the oddball thread? Am I just whinging? I don't know. I just know lots of little projects have come and gone and I don't feel right submitting them to oddball.*

Edit: I'm wanting to post confidently to oddball, and not waste people's time. I'm hoping to get help, but I cant' tell of what kind. Encouragement? Clarity on what still counts for oddball nowadays?

My Question on the words for a hand-crafted willow feeder instruction page: https://permies.com/t/369108/pep-greywater-willow-feeders/words-Willow-Feeder-instructions-page#3746651

And my question for Commerce-sand Cottoge industry (https://permies.com/wiki/148877/pep-commerce/Start-Cottage-Industry-home-PEP): I'm renting out most of my house. Would that count for this BB?