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BB clarification thread

 
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How about if you make a 10.5 by 10 pillow and then later on, shrink it to 8"?
 
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Mike Haasl wrote:How about if you make a 10.5 by 10 pillow and then later on, shrink it to 8"?

I'm filling these with down - not my first choice to have to try to shrink it. A less messy challenging filling would make that easier, but down is what I have... where are some shepherds when I need one???
 
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Jay wrote:So may I be allowed to make two slightly smaller pillows, instead of one 10"x10" pillow? I *really* need it a narrow 7 or 8" width, to do its job properly.



I’d suggest that you make a pillow that is twice as big as you need for the BB. After you get it approved, you can make alter it, making two pillows that fit your needs.
 
Jay Angler
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Opalyn Rose wrote:

Jay wrote:So may I be allowed to make two slightly smaller pillows, instead of one 10"x10" pillow? I *really* need it a narrow 7 or 8" width, to do its job properly.


I’d suggest that you make a pillow that is twice as big as you need for the BB. After you get it approved, you can make alter it, making two pillows that fit your needs.

Good idea Opalyn, so long as I allow extra for the two seam allowances.

It also occurred to me that I have some badly worn flannel sheets that I might be able to use as filling instead of feathers/down.  This application doesn't really need the warmth of down.

That said, to use the down, I have to use ticking. What if I made two ticking bags the correct size, then made an outer cover that was the "double" size + seam allowance, that I can cut down after approval. Is there an expectation that we are filling a single large compartment? I don't want to pretzel the intended goals here, nor set an example you would prefer not be set. Down comforters are actually made of many compartments so that the down stays evenly distributed, but that approach is not normal for a down pillow.
 
Opalyn Rose
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Make a Rug Textile BB submission.  I submitted it as a reply (not a BB) since I have a question.  What are you looking for when the required photos say
- Explain why your fiber content choice is appropriate for the project
- Explain why your construction technique is appropriate for the project

how do we show this in a photo or how do we modify "To document completion of the BB, provide proof of the following as pics or video (< 2 min):" to include descriptions not as photos?

I did some explanation in the first part of the post but want to polish the BB before I submit it for approval.  
 
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Yeh, as is, it would work, in a video, but not so much in pictures. I like your rewording, Opalyn. I mean, it obviously needs pictures, but the explanations would need to be written. I can't imagine attempting to interpret non-written picture explanations, and attempting to provide picture explanations would be incredibly daunting.
 
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I think that the ideas was to write or video that part, but the standard format says video or pictures only.

A tweak on the words would fix it.

 
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For 12 ft junk pole fence would a sky fence (roof) over a chicken pen count. The requirements say the rock-jacks and post should be built before the badge. It would have no chicken size gaps and10 ft length. Or is this better for oddball.
 
Mike Haasl
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That sounds like oddball to me
 
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Howdy! Question about the PEP BB electricity.sand.solar

https://permies.com/wiki/112937/pep-electricity/Small-DC-solar-system-PEP

I picked up a small solar panel which had a battery controller built in.
I was a little bummed because that means I can’t directly power any devices (I tried multiple to confirm). I popped the cover off (below) and it doesn’t seem like I can safely remove the controller either, as there is some sort of plastic seal gluing it to the housing.

Would this still qualify or do I need to get a different panel?

Thank you!
IMG_1424.jpeg
Bb requirements
Bb requirements
IMG_1414.jpeg
Solar panel
Solar panel
IMG_1423.jpeg
Charge controller
Charge controller
IMG_1417.jpeg
Specs indicating it controls the charge
Specs indicating it controls the charge
Staff note (Mike Barkley) :

I strongly advise NOT directly powering anything from a panel without a charge controller or at least a diode or you rish destroying your panels. Almost all modern controllers have the blocking diode built in.

 
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If you include the documentation that shows the panel has a built in charge controller with your BB submission I think you're good to go!
 
Opalyn Rose
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The bb requires that the setup include a charge controller. It does not specify the it be a separate unit so I’d fine with it.
 
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May I use sliced pig belly (bacon) into lard?

How about butter into shelf stable ghee?

or maybe some of each to total a quart?
Thanks!

BB Food prep, Straw, render quart of oil/fat
 
Mike Barkley
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I think using pig belly (bacon) to make lard is acceptable. Using butter to make ghee isn't listed as an option in the instructions.
 
Mike Haasl
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Where is the ghee BB that we should be looking at?

Rendering lard from bacon is acceptable in my opinion.
 
Opalyn Rose
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Mike Haasl wrote:Where is the ghee BB that we should be looking at?


I don't think there is one.  The BB in question is Press or Render a Quart of Oil or Fat.  

The BB says "Possibilities Include:" and lists various fats and oils that need some effort to produce the required amount. It specifies that it can be small amounts over time.  Ghee/Butter is not on that list but it is not an exhaustive list.

I would say (definitely) yes to the bacon-to-lard question and would probably accept ghee if they started with raw milk but not if they started with butter.

Edit: Just found Make Two Dairy Products and people have submitted ghee there even though it is not on the list of items. (did not look to see if this is no longer allowed)
 
Mike Haasl
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Thanks Opalyn!  I'd say ghee is a better fit for the dairy one.  
 
Carla Burke
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I concur.
 
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I need clarification on large equipment for the Earthworks and Toolcare badges. I don't know a lot about big rigs, and I don't want to rent the wrong things and have my bb rejected, like happened for the snow plow bb.

For this earthworks bb:
https://permies.com/wiki/99578/pep-earthworks/scoops-Tractor-Loader-PEP-BB

what exactly is a tractor loader? Does any front end bucket count? An excavator with a big bucket? A ditch witch with a big bucket? Or does it have to be a tractor specifically?

For the tool care bb,
https://permies.com/wiki/128561/pep-tool-care/Clean-Grease-Oil-Tractor-Implement

does it also have to be a specific tractor attachment? Or would the bucket or forks on an excavator count?
Staff note :

please add link(s) to specific bb so we can review.

 
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Hey there, I'm looking for clarification on how the points are awarded for the 'set up a six hour workshop' BB

On this page: https://permies.com/wiki/pep-badge-community, it notes that "Set up a six hour workshop - 2 to 10 points". This page: https://permies.com/wiki/124914/pep-bb-community-straw-set-workshop#2695283 doesn't detail how the points are earned.

Thank you for taking a look!
 
Mike Haasl
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Thanks Alexandra, a points section has been added!
 
Alexandra Malecki
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Mike Haasl wrote:Thanks Alexandra, a points section has been added!



Yes, I see, thank you for doing that. I must admit that I’m surprised that the points system is focused on the number of students, not how well the setup was done. It kind of seems redundant to the ‘teach a 6hr workshop’ BB whereas this BB is for setting up a workshop. I even handmade name-tags but I should have gotten clarification before I made the name tags... oh well.
 
Opalyn Rose
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Set up a six hour workshop - 2 to 10 points


Looks like another edit is needed on the set up workshop page it says, "- Can be combined with “set up a six hour workshop” to get two BBs"
I'm guessing it should say, "- Can be combined with “teach a six hour workshop” to get two BBs
 
Rebekah Harmon
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Hi there! I still need clarification on a tractor definition for earthworks and tool care bbs.
 
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For the RMH bb, what is the minimum requirement for the stove pipe exiting the roof? There is a required picture of the chimney going into the ceiling.

I'm planning to build a RMH in my shed, where there is a stove/chimney already. But the chimney is literally a hole in the roof. Single wall all the way up. How much more fancy must I make it?

For this bb: https://permies.com/wiki/125880/pep-rocket/Build-Tube-RMH-PEP-BB
 
Alexandra Malecki
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To further clarify what Rebakah is asking, does the BB require a chimney installation if there is already a chimney in existence?
 
Opalyn Rose
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Rebekah Harmon wrote:Hi there! I still need clarification on a tractor definition for earthworks and tool care bbs.


please submit bb links with specific questions
 
Opalyn Rose
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Rebekah Harmon wrote:For the RMH bb, what is the minimum requirement for the stove pipe exiting the roof?  


I would expect you to contact your building department to find out the local regulations or building codes.  
In my area, we can use black (uninsulated) pipe inside and need silver insulated pipe that is at least 3 feet taller than anything within 10 feet of the chimney.
If you have black pipe all the way, I would not approve it based on my knowledge

Alex, if there is already a chimney then I would expect to see it in the "before" photo(s) and see any upgrades in the "after" photos.
 
Clay McGowen
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Rebekah Harmon wrote:I need clarification on large equipment for the Earthworks and Toolcare badges. I don't know a lot about big rigs, and I don't want to rent the wrong things and have my bb rejected, like happened for the snow plow bb.

For this earthworks bb:
https://permies.com/wiki/99578/pep-earthworks/scoops-Tractor-Loader-PEP-BB

what exactly is a tractor loader? Does any front end bucket count? An excavator with a big bucket? A ditch witch with a big bucket? Or does it have to be a tractor specifically?

For the tool care bb,
https://permies.com/wiki/128561/pep-tool-care/Clean-Grease-Oil-Tractor-Implement

does it also have to be a specific tractor attachment? Or would the bucket or forks on an excavator count?



Rebekah had posted some links earlier but looks like the activity pushed that out of view.

Linking a photo of a “ditch witch with a bucket” for those less familiar.

I’m also *interested in the tool care question when folks have time to take a look.

Thank you!
*edit: typo
IMG_1837.jpeg
Ditch witch with bucket (sometimes called a Dingo)
Ditch witch with bucket (sometimes called a Dingo)
 
Rebekah Harmon
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Opalyn Rose wrote:

Rebekah Harmon wrote:Hi there! I still need clarification on a tractor definition for earthworks and tool care bbs.


please submit bb links with specific questions



I'm not sure what is unclear. I am asking for the word "tractor" to be defined for these two bbs:

https://permies.com/wiki/99578/pep-earthworks/scoops-Tractor-Loader-PEP-BB

https://permies.com/wiki/128561/pep-tool-care/Clean-Grease-Oil-Tractor-Implement

Does "tractor" include all big rigs with a scoop? Does a dingo or ditch witch that Clay posted a picture of count in this bb? I've heard different people who use these pieces of heavy equipment regularly refer to many of them as a "tractor."
 
Opalyn Rose
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Rebekah Harmon wrote:I am asking for the word "tractor" to be defined for these two bbs:

https://permies.com/wiki/99578/pep-earthworks/scoops-Tractor-Loader-PEP-BB
https://permies.com/wiki/128561/pep-tool-care/Clean-Grease-Oil-Tractor-Implement

Does "tractor" include all big rigs with a scoop? Does a dingo or ditch witch that Clay posted a picture of count in this bb? I've heard different people who use these pieces of heavy equipment regularly refer to many of them as a "tractor."


I'm not clear what photo of "Clay using a dingo or ditch witch" you are referring to.  In this BB he uses a bucket loader.
Perhaps "tractor" is not ideal in the title as it can also refer to things with tracks.  I would expect (and approve) any bb that met the requirements and used a "BUCKET-LOADER" on a "tractor(wheels or tracks - does not matter)" for the "5 Scoops using a tractor loader" bb.

For the second bb, it is for an IMPLEMENT - something that gets attached to a tractor, not the tractor itself.
 
Mike Haasl
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I believe the intent of the tractor loader BB is to use a front end loader on a tractor.  I'd think that a tracked loader with a scoop on the front would also count based on the term "tractor loader".  I'm not sure if a skid steer or dingo would count.  IF it was PEM I'd count it but I'm not sure cuz it's PEP.
 
Mike Haasl
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For the implement one, it pretty clearly says it has to be for a tractor.  I would say that a garden tractor would count as long as the implement needed grease or oil.  Per the BB:

Clean, grease, and oil one of the following implements:
- back blade
- grader
- auger
- loader
- draw bar
- forks
- other common tractor implements that require grease and/or oil  

 
Alexandra Malecki
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Hey there! When I look at some BBs and early submissions of those BBs, I find that early submissions shouldn't have been approved given the current text on the BB. For example:

BB: https://permies.com/wiki/124726/pep-dimensional-woodworking/Sturdy-firewood-rack-PEP-BB#994318
submission: https://permies.com/wiki/124726/pep-dimensional-woodworking/Sturdy-firewood-rack-PEP-BB#1253038

Seeing that submission is confusing because the BB states that it must be "protected from rain".

I wonder if there's an obvious way to notate or label a submission like the above. Perhaps "this BB was approved but would no longer be approved because xyz reason". I think this would be helpful for new SKIPpers to get clarification and not repeat grandfathered in approvals.

Anyway, just a thought... I'm sure you guys have already thought about this.
 
Mike Haasl
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It has come up but we haven't jumped on a particular solution...
 
Alexandra Malecki
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I think I might be giving this thread a little too much love but sometimes there are little details to a BB that feel like they could be subjectively approved or denied. So I greatly appreciate this thread!

Here's my Q: do the coat hooks need to be RIGHT next to the door? Can they be on an opposing wall? The opposing wall that I would prefer happens to be equidistant to the front and back doors which makes the coat hooks more useful to me. I could snap some pics for my specific floorplan if necessary?

reference: https://permies.com/wiki/157859/pep-nest/Install-Coat-Hooks-Door-PEP#1237000

Thanks!
 
Rebekah Harmon
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Hey Mike. And all other staff members. I am confused because of the loose use of the word "tractor" in different industries. Since the word tractor is used differently all over the country, and also the world, and this is a global program, I am looking for a more solid definition of what is an acceptable machiene for this bb: https://permies.com/wiki/128561/pep-tool-care/Clean-Grease-Oil-Tractor-Implement

If it seems I am over-thinking this bb, it is because I do not own any of these implements, and I sure do not want to borrow or rent and spend money on a bb that will be rejected.

Based on yoir post, Mike, I am led to believe that any implement that can mount one of the listed attachments would count for this bb?
Screenshot_20241115_112853_Samsung-Internet.jpg
A tractor trailer is a semitruck. I assume yall don't mean this type of tractor, but when I ask for clarification, nobody so far has disregarded this option
A tractor trailer is a semitruck. I assume yall don't mean this type of tractor, but when I ask for clarification, nobody so far has disregarded this option
Screenshot_20241115_112707_Samsung-Internet.jpg
Google says a front loader is a type of tractor
Google says a front loader is a type of tractor
Screenshot_20241115_113641_Samsung-Internet.jpg
This is the Google definition of tractor.
This is the Google definition of tractor.
Screenshot_20241115_112951_Samsung-Internet.jpg
As stated in this screen shot asking if a backhoe is a tractor, there are many names colloquially given to this one piece of equipment.
As stated in this screen shot asking if a backhoe is a tractor, there are many names colloquially given to this one piece of equipment.
 
Mike Haasl
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Alexandra Malecki wrote:I think I might be giving this thread a little too much love but sometimes there are little details to a BB that feel like they could be subjectively approved or denied. So I greatly appreciate this thread!

Here's my Q: do the coat hooks need to be RIGHT next to the door? Can they be on an opposing wall? The opposing wall that I would prefer happens to be equidistant to the front and back doors which makes the coat hooks more useful to me. I could snap some pics for my specific floorplan if necessary?

reference: https://permies.com/wiki/157859/pep-nest/Install-Coat-Hooks-Door-PEP#1237000

Thanks!


Since it says "by" in two places, I think they need to be pretty near an outside door.
 
Mike Haasl
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Rebekah Harmon wrote:Hey Mike. And all other staff members. I am confused because of the loose use of the word "tractor" in different industries. Since the word tractor is used differently all over the country, and also the world, and this is a global program, I am looking for a more solid definition of what is an acceptable machiene for this bb: https://permies.com/wiki/128561/pep-tool-care/Clean-Grease-Oil-Tractor-Implement


Since this is PEP, and PEP is for Paul's place in Montana, and Paul has a Kubota tractor, I'm pretty sure the BB is oriented at things that attach to a farm or homestead tractor.  Please just find a neighbor with a tractor, give them a 6 pack of beer to clean their brush hog, and call it good.
 
Alexandra Malecki
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Referring to https://permies.com/wiki/150053/pep-food-prep-preservation/Ferment-Gallon-food-straw-fermentfour#1172282

I need to find a new fruit fermentation. Can I make an apple sauerkraut? More specifically, I've made Kombucha, Apple Cider Vinegar, and a two ingredient Sauerkraut (cabbage and salt) and I need a fourth ferment in the Fruit category. My question is if I can make an apple sauerkraut that satisfies the requirements?

The recipe I'd like to make: https://www.fermentedfoodlab.com/apple-spice-sauerkraut/

Thanks for the help!
 
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