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BB clarification thread

 
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Lauren Pfaff wrote:Question: do you have to do PEP BBs in order? For example, could I do a BB from the Straw Badge of Gardening if I have not yet completed the sand badge?


You don't have to do BBs in order, but you do have to get badges in order. Even if you completed all the BBs for a straw badge, if you don't have the sand badge yet, you can't get the straw badge.
 
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https://permies.com/wiki/112201/pep-foraging/lbs-seed-balls-PEP-BB#917038

Why do seed balls need to be an inch in diameter?

How many seeds should theoretically be in each 1inch seed ball?

How are seed balls planted? carefully or thrown?

 
Christopher Weeks
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Alexandra Malecki wrote:Why do seed balls need to be an inch in diameter?


Some requirements exist to make things easier to judge. It may be that below that size, it's hard to distinguish from just the lumpy mix that happens when you mix the clay and compost without balling. Also, if you're planting the balls somewhere generally infertile, the larger blob of soil will help the plants get a start, and that would be particularly true if you were 'guerilla gardening' by tossing the balls over a fence into a vacant lot or something. If those are too big for your use-case, you can break them up a little or step on them.

How many seeds should theoretically be in each 1inch seed ball?


The BB doesn't specify a target, but if you follow the 1:1:1 ratio that's generally in those videos, you'll end up with too many seeds in my opinion, unless you're using shabby old seeds with a poor germination rate. I've taken to using a lot fewer seeds added to a half compost half clay mix.

How are seed balls planted? carefully or thrown?


Yup. I've done both. But planting them isn't part of the BB.
 
Alexandra Malecki
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Christopher Weeks wrote:
Yup. I've done both. But planting them isn't part of the BB.



Yes, yes, I've done what's necessary for the BB but as I'm considering this upcoming season I'm thinking I'd prefer to make cm sized seed balls to distribute the seeds better. Which made me wonder a number of questions.

When I make another batch of 20lbs of seed balls I wonder if I should use primarily large seeds so that the seed balls aren't too dense.

Thanks for the info, Christopher!!
 
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Lauren Pfaff wrote:Question: do you have to do PEP BBs in order? For example, could I do a BB from the Straw Badge of Gardening if I have not yet completed the sand badge?



I have some bbs from wood badges, when I haven't earned the straw badge yet. So not for individual bbs, no. Sometimes it just works out that way with the seasons. Time to save seeds, so you want to do that bb, but haven't earned the full sand badge yet? Go for it.
But there is another interesting question you spark: can someone earn a straw badge before their sand badge is finished? Or a wood badge before their straw badge is finished?
 
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Rebekah Harmon wrote:[But there is another interesting question you spark: can someone earn a straw badge before their sand badge is finished? Or a wood badge before their straw badge is finished?


Nope.  You can get all the BBs for a higher badge approved but you won't get that badge until you have the badges under/before it completed.
 
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https://permies.com/wiki/112201/pep-foraging/lbs-seed-balls-PEP-BB#917038

Strange question. I know we're strict about following requirements for BBs but sometimes requirements are modified for things that weren't considered when the BBs were first written. I'm wondering if cubical seed balls would be acceptable? That's how I make them. I find it to be more efficient. Faster & easier. Roll the material out like pizza dough. Slice with a knife. Let dry.

 
Mike Haasl
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I think this is a case where there might be a better way but the original way is how it's written and, at least for the purposes of doing SKIP, it's best to just do the balls.  Then upgrade to square chunks once you are doing them more in the future, if you want.
 
Mike Barkley
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No problem. Thanks Mike.
 
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A question pertaining to this BB: https://permies.com/wiki/115209/pep-commerce/Sell-permaculture-labor-site-paid

Would cutting up and removing a large fallen oak tree for a neighbor count as permaculture labor?
 
Alexandra Malecki
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Regarding this BB:https://permies.com/wiki/150148/pep-food-prep-preservation/Dry-Types-food-straw-drythings#1173156, I have two wording update recommendations to clarify and add specificity.

It says:

Minimum requirements for this BB:
-Dry Six Different Types of Things ( each type only once)
 - Herbs - ½ lbs fresh weight
 - Veggies - 5 lbs fresh weight  
     - For soups and stews and such
     - As “chips”
 - Mushrooms - 5 lbs fresh weight
 - Meat (aka jerky) fresh weight - 10 lbs
     - Cold smoking allowed
 - Sauces - 1 qt
 - Cookies and crackers and such - 2 lbs dry weight
 - Energy bars (grains, dried fruit, sweetener, oil, nut butter) - 5 lbs dry weight
 - For flour (ex. Squash or acorn flour) - 2 lbs dry weight
 - Fruits - 10 lbs fresh weight

To show you've completed this Badge Bit, you must provide proof of the following as pictures or video (<2 mins):
  - each thing you're drying at their required fresh weight (see requirements above for each item)
  - progress of drying each item
  - finished drying each of the six things



I feel like "fresh" in giant red above should be deleted. I also think that the jerky weight should specify fresh weight. Do you agree or did I misunderstand?  Thanks!
 
Mike Barkley
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Chris Clinton ... I don't think that would qualify for commerce but I think it would fly as an oddball BB.
 
Mike Barkley
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Alexandra, it looks clear as it is written to me. I interpret it to mean show the 10 pounds of meat on a scale before drying.
 
Chris Clinton
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Mike Barkley wrote:Chris Clinton ... I don't think that would qualify for commerce but I think it would fly as an oddball BB.



For clarification, is that because tree work does not fall under "permaculture labor" or because I did not specifically state that I would be paid for my effort. I think they've been getting quotes in the thousands and I said I'd tackle it for $300. It's not a favor for a friend situation, I just need the firewood and this tree is close by and has a head start in drying.
 
Mike Barkley
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It doesn't seem to fit the category but that's just my opinion. That particular BB is not my strongest. Perhaps someone higher up the BB food chain will clarify.
 
Mike Haasl
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Chris Clinton wrote:A question pertaining to this BB: https://permies.com/wiki/115209/pep-commerce/Sell-permaculture-labor-site-paid

Would cutting up and removing a large fallen oak tree for a neighbor count as permaculture labor?


If it's going to be used for heat or making lumber, I'd say it counts.  Or if the fallen tree is interfering with permaculture stuff like a garden.
 
Mike Haasl
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Alexandra Malecki wrote:Regarding this BB:https://permies.com/wiki/150148/pep-food-prep-preservation/Dry-Types-food-straw-drythings#1173156, I have two wording update recommendations to clarify and add specificity.

It says:

Minimum requirements for this BB:
-Dry Six Different Types of Things ( each type only once)
 - Herbs - ½ lbs fresh weight
 - Veggies - 5 lbs fresh weight  
     - For soups and stews and such
     - As “chips”
 - Mushrooms - 5 lbs fresh weight
 - Meat (aka jerky) fresh weight - 10 lbs
     - Cold smoking allowed
 - Sauces - 1 qt
 - Cookies and crackers and such - 2 lbs dry weight
 - Energy bars (grains, dried fruit, sweetener, oil, nut butter) - 5 lbs dry weight
 - For flour (ex. Squash or acorn flour) - 2 lbs dry weight
 - Fruits - 10 lbs fresh weight

To show you've completed this Badge Bit, you must provide proof of the following as pictures or video (<2 mins):
  - each thing you're drying at their required fresh weight (see requirements above for each item)
  - progress of drying each item
  - finished drying each of the six things



I feel like "fresh" in giant red above should be deleted. I also think that the jerky weight should specify fresh weight. Do you agree or did I misunderstand?  Thanks!


I agree on the big bold fresh being removed.  The meat one looks like you didn't change the wording from the original and I think it makes sense as is.
 
Alexandra Malecki
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A local farm is contracting me to build a Rocket bench in a greenhouse to be used as classroom seating. Given that the greenhouse has a plastic cover, I'm planning for the exhaust to go out the wall like in the classroom at Wheaton labs. I'd like to document this effort for a BB but the BB specifies that the exhaust must go out of the roof. Can this BB be modified to include a wall exit? Thanks!

Referring to https://permies.com/wiki/125880/pep-rocket/Build-Tube-RMH-PEP-BB#999488
 
Alexandra Malecki
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What specifically is meant by " - basic, quick cleaning (before, during and after)"? Would this be hosing down the tractor? If we're talking about a vehicle (not tractor) would this be the exterior or interior? Thanks!

Referring to: https://permies.com/wiki/128083/pep-tool-care/PEP-BB-tool-straw-service#1009061
 
Mike Haasl
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I'd say it's the outside.  It feels like "maintenance" is more of keeping it from getting rusty, more than keeping it pretty for date night...
 
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Alexandra Malecki wrote:A local farm is contracting me to build a Rocket bench in a greenhouse to be used as classroom seating. Given that the greenhouse has a plastic cover, I'm planning for the exhaust to go out the wall like in the classroom at Wheaton labs. I'd like to document this effort for a BB but the BB specifies that the exhaust must go out of the roof. Can this BB be modified to include a wall exit? Thanks!

Referring to https://permies.com/wiki/125880/pep-rocket/Build-Tube-RMH-PEP-BB#999488



Mike summoned me to respond to this ....

First, the exhaust out the wall in the classroom was, in time, corked and a new exhaust was routed through the roof.  While rmh out the wall can work, it has, in my experience, led to a poor draw.  Therefore, I think the BB needs to emphasize "vertical exhaust".  

At this point in time, I think that the greatest challenge in this BB is the hole through the ceiling and roof.   Going through plastic is about 100x easier.  Maybe there are things in a greenhouse project that can add that amount of work back in.   Do you have a suggestion?




 
Alexandra Malecki
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paul wheaton wrote:First, the exhaust out the wall in the classroom was, in time, corked and a new exhaust was routed through the roof.  While rmh out the wall can work, it has, in my experience, led to a poor draw.  Therefore, I think the BB needs to emphasize "vertical exhaust".  

At this point in time, I think that the greatest challenge in this BB is the hole through the ceiling and roof.   Going through plastic is about 100x easier.  Maybe there are things in a greenhouse project that can add that amount of work back in.   Do you have a suggestion?



A vertical exhaust IS better than a wall exit... I'll accept no change to the BB. Thanks for considering it!

Funny that you say it'll be easier, I find that I'm getting heartburn (well, so to speak). A roof penetration just feels more straightforward. Hopefully this is another example of something being easier than expected!

If you're looking for adding complexity, I had a few things I wanted to try since this rocket will have a lot of community visibility:
1) Weld a cork/plug/cover for the feed opening.
2) Make a p-channel mostly because I want to see how that effects performance
3) Add a cob hat - mostly so as not to melt the plastic above.
4) I'm also pondering some sort of metal art to accompany it.... perhaps a steel dragon.

Glad to hear you're doing well, Paul!



In other news, when submitting for the natural medicine straw badge, I saw that Joy Hancock has a BB inquiry/clarification: https://permies.com/t/207057/pep-natural-medicine/PEP-Natural-Medicine-Straw-Badge#2853122


 
Alexandra Malecki
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I've been harvesting curly dock leaves on my .35 acre suburban home. My question is if the calories would be considered gardening or foraging?

Referring to:
Gardening: https://permies.com/wiki/126298/grow-harvest-calories-PEP-BB#1001271
Foraging: https://permies.com/wiki/150764/pep-foraging/Forage-Calories-Species-foraging-wood

I didn't plant the burdock seeds - so foraging not gardening? And it's on my property - so gardening not foraging?

Thanks for clarifying!
 
Mike Haasl
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It's possibly so close to the middle that it doesn't count for either. I'm thinking they'd be closer to foraging but if you do anything to help or protect them (lawnmower avoidance?), then I don't think they count for that.  
 
Alexandra Malecki
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lol! Neither!

So then does it qualify for oddball?
 
Mike Haasl
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I think it sounds like it isn't a fit for either and since it's so close to gardening, it probably doesn't work for Oddball either.  
 
Alexandra Malecki
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I feel like it leans more gardening since it popped up in my garden and I've been tending to it. But I also recognize that a definition of gardening can be intentionally from seed. It's funny that it doesn't count anywhere though.
 
Mike Haasl
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Oh, you didn't say it was in your tended garden.  Then I think it would count as gardening.

Not every single thing in the world fits a BB...
 
Alexandra Malecki
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Not every single thing in the world fits a BB...



blasphemy!
 
Christopher Weeks
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There’s a BB for caring for volunteers in polyculture, right? It might work for that.
 
Alexandra Malecki
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Christopher Weeks wrote:There’s a BB for caring for volunteers in polyculture, right? It might work for that.



Yup, I already did that BB: https://permies.com/wiki/122923/Encouraging-volunteer-wild-plants-PEP#2933426

The clarification needed was about which aspect to count calories from harvesting the plant: foraging or gardening. Since the dock is growing in my garden then I'm going to account for it in the gardening aspect.
 
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Hello! I was just made aware of this thread!

I have a question about why my BB was rejected for "plastic touching food." I thought I was being super careful about not letting anything plastic touch any food and I am not sure where the reviewer saw this in any of my pictures so I cannot figure out what I need to fix.
Could someone please take a look and clarify what needs to be fixed?

Here is my submission: https://permies.com/p/2968054

Thanks!
 
Hal Schibel
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Hello!

I have a question about the BB's requiring operating a Rocket Mass Heater.

I don't think this product was available and UL-listed at the time that the BB's were created, but I have a Liberator Rocket Heater installed in my house.

If I want to use this rocket heater for the BB, would I need to install a mass around it or will it work as-is for the BB?

Thanks!
 
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Hal Schibel wrote:Hello! I was just made aware of this thread!

I have a question about why my BB was rejected for "plastic touching food." I thought I was being super careful about not letting anything plastic touch any food and I am not sure where the reviewer saw this in any of my pictures so I cannot figure out what I need to fix.
Could someone please take a look and clarify what needs to be fixed?

Here is my submission: https://permies.com/p/2968054

Thanks!


I'm gonna guess it's the lower right pic in the first collage.  
 
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Hal Schibel wrote:Hello!

I have a question about the BB's requiring operating a Rocket Mass Heater.

I don't think this product was available and UL-listed at the time that the BB's were created, but I have a Liberator Rocket Heater installed in my house.

If I want to use this rocket heater for the BB, would I need to install a mass around it or will it work as-is for the BB?

Thanks!


I think if it had a mass it would qualify.
 
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Hi Hal,
Thank you for your question.
There are a number of plastic items shown, including the edge around the microplane and the inside of the jar lids are plasticised.
While I can clearly see that the blender jug is glass, the lid is plastic and other ingredient jars have plastic lids.
Whilst the vinegar bottle looks to be plastic, that particular quantity, I noted from going to the brand site is actually a glass bottle.

In this day and age of plastic, achieving the no plastic is a problem.  Unfortunately, I can only certify on what is in the pictures.
 
Mike Haasl
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Posts: 15908
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
5067
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hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
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I'd also like to mention that this thread is to get clarification on the requirements, scope, scale and proof needed for a BB.  Not for debating why a BB was approved/rejected/unfair/etc.
 
I knew that guy would be trouble! Thanks tiny ad!
Learn Permaculture through a little hard work
https://wheaton-labs.com/bootcamp
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