Problems Carbonating Ginger Beer

I'm brewing ginger beer following the Art of Fermentation and am this close to wild success. The only problem is that it won't carbonate right; opening the bottle gets a nice fooomp noise, but no fizz in the drink. So there's obviously carbon dioxide there, but...

I make the ginger bug with 1tbsp each of ginger and sugar. I boil up the ginger/sugar decoction just as the instructions suggest, waiting for it to cool until body temperature or cooler before adding the ginger bug. I wait a few days until it starts to fizz and bottle, letting sit a few days more to carbonate, then refrigerate.

Possible points of failure: I stir the mixture during the days it ferments before bottling. I thought that might knock the floating ginger bits back in and help it ferment, but maybe it's knocking carbon dioxide out? My carboy bottles are hand-me-downs - the seal could be imperfect. For people who've done this before, am I waiting too long to bottle and missing peak fermentation? I thought I did that once and might be bottling too soon.

Weirdly, the first time I did this, it fizzed appropriately (so the bottles probably aren't the problem). I'm on the fourth batch, each time trying to get more fizz, but have gotten none at all. This past batch was an attempt to do everything exactly the way I did it the first, most successful time, and nothing. I took notes and the first time, when things carbonated, the ginger beer only had to sit one day on the counter and was fizzy. This past time, I waited five days and only got the foomp.

My impression is that I need to wait longer until bottling. Does that sound right?

Hi Matheson, welcome to Permies!

Carbonation happens when enough CO2 gets suspended in a liquid, and then the CO2 will come out of suspension forming small bubbles on nucleation sites. Have you ever poured a carbonated drink, beer or soda, into a glass and then have it totally foam over, but it wasn't foaming over in the bottle? That happens from an abundance of nucleation sites in the glass allowing for lots of CO2 to come out of suspension immediately, from either scratches in the smooth glass, dust particles, or even from soap residue from washing and rinsing, like those water spots sometimes seen in glasses. This is how carbonation happens.

On to your brew that seems low in carbonation, and that is resulting from low amounts of CO2 in the liquid. The CO2 in there making carbonation comes from the microbes (yeasts) fermenting sugars. Without enough residual sugars when bottling, there will be poor or no carbonation. Too much residual sugars when bottling can result in exploding bottles, and I've had cases of exploding beer bottles back in my brewing days.

My impression is that I need to wait longer until bottling. Does that sound right?

This will have the opposite effect. Allowing it to sit longer before bottling will allow the yeasts to munch through more sugars, resulting in flat or still beverages. Sometimes still beverages are nice for the style, like some wines. But it sounds like you're after carbonation and mouthfeel. There are a couple ways to approach this. Bottle sooner, which means leaving more sugars still floating around that haven't been consumed by the yeasts, and that will make for more fizz. Another way is to allow fermentation to fully finish, then add sugars right at bottling, and this can allow for a measured amount of sugar giving a known amount of carbonation. Then you can tweak future batches, adding a little more or little less to achieve the level of carbonation you desire. Hope this helps!!

you can rescue this batch by doing a second fermentation (like you would with kombucha or when bottling beer), as James mentions- put it into sealed bottles with a priming sugar (could be fruit juice, a few raisins, etc or just a bit of sugar), seal it up, and let it go a day (for my cool house. if you live somewhere hot maybe less time) then refrigerate and enjoy. Make sure your bottles are tight and don't let them explode!!

The stirring will release the CO2.  That's what they do to wine to get rid of the CO2 before bottling, so I'd stop that.

I'm having the same trouble with ginger beer, rootbeer, and juices fermented and carbonated with ginger bug. The mixtures have tons of bubbles in the liquid, but no real carbonation. It does a light pop when I open the swing top bottles, but the resulting bubbly beverage tastes completely flat. I am so discouraged.

Hi,
I have the same problem. Did you find the reason ?
Thank you

Welcome to the forum!

Have you tried Tereza's suggestion about doing a second fermentation?

Here are some other threads that might offer some interest to you or others:

https://permies.com/t/187751/isn-ginger-bug-carbonating-beverages

https://permies.com/t/204990/Fermenting-carbonated-alcoholic-apple-cider

Hi Anne,

Thank you.

I make big batch. Sometimes it works fine (big carbonation) in few days and sometimes i have no carbonation at all... I use excatly the same material and the same conditions.

I can not find the reason why

Hi Matheson,

I would like to know if you found the reason and so the solution to this problem ?

Thank you very much.

Sébastien

Matheson Russell wrote:I'm brewing ginger beer following the Art of Fermentation and am this close to wild success. The only problem is that it won't carbonate right; opening the bottle gets a nice fooomp noise, but no fizz in the drink. So there's obviously carbon dioxide there, but...

I make the ginger bug with 1tbsp each of ginger and sugar. I boil up the ginger/sugar decoction just as the instructions suggest, waiting for it to cool until body temperature or cooler before adding the ginger bug. I wait a few days until it starts to fizz and bottle, letting sit a few days more to carbonate, then refrigerate.

Possible points of failure: I stir the mixture during the days it ferments before bottling. I thought that might knock the floating ginger bits back in and help it ferment, but maybe it's knocking carbon dioxide out? My carboy bottles are hand-me-downs - the seal could be imperfect. For people who've done this before, am I waiting too long to bottle and missing peak fermentation? I thought I did that once and might be bottling too soon.

Weirdly, the first time I did this, it fizzed appropriately (so the bottles probably aren't the problem). I'm on the fourth batch, each time trying to get more fizz, but have gotten none at all. This past batch was an attempt to do everything exactly the way I did it the first, most successful time, and nothing. I took notes and the first time, when things carbonated, the ginger beer only had to sit one day on the counter and was fizzy. This past time, I waited five days and only got the foomp.

My impression is that I need to wait longer until bottling. Does that sound right?

it sounds like the fermentation is working, so carbon dioxide is being produced. The "secret" to high carbonation is pressure. The higher the pressure, the more CO2 dissolves. A larger container will need much higher strength to handle high pressure than a small container. If you can reuse 2L PET bottles (or smaller), they have very high pressure capacity and will give much safer pressurization than a large glass carboy. A large plastic carboy will likely just expand to accommodate the CO2, rather than rise in pressure.

Within a fermented liquid under pressure, shaking or stirring will not have an effect on the amount of CO2 in solution because the solution is already at equilibrium. However, it can entrain small bubbles into the liquid which serve as nucleation sites. So if you release the pressure after shaking, you get more spray. This is the basis of the Penn & Teller skit for transferring energy from one can to another: give the victim an unopened soft drink and invite them to shake it as hard as they like. Then set the can down on a table beside a second soft drink. While the cans are side-by-side, make magical gestures to summon the energy from one can and put it into the other (taking at least 30 seconds for the show to let fine bubbles leave the liquid). Then invite them to open that can. It will "pop" but not overflow because it has re-equilibrated. Pick up the "energized can" and with a firm grip on the can (actually squeezing it in a little if possible to over-pressurize it), open it in the victim's direction - worked better with the old pull tab style which was replaced specifically to foil this trick after it was played on softdrink executives - and with practice you can expel about half the can of softdrink onto the victim.

Thank you Cade.

I use always the same bottles. They are new and the caps are new too.

Sometimes the cabonation is perfect in 2 or 3 days and sometimes there is nothing after many days.

Cade Johnson wrote:it sounds like the fermentation is working, so carbon dioxide is being produced. The "secret" to high carbonation is pressure. The higher the pressure, the more CO2 dissolves. A larger container will need much higher strength to handle high pressure than a small container. If you can reuse 2L PET bottles (or smaller), they have very high pressure capacity and will give much safer pressurization than a large glass carboy. A large plastic carboy will likely just expand to accommodate the CO2, rather than rise in pressure.

Within a fermented liquid under pressure, shaking or stirring will not have an effect on the amount of CO2 in solution because the solution is already at equilibrium. However, it can entrain small bubbles into the liquid which serve as nucleation sites. So if you release the pressure after shaking, you get more spray. This is the basis of the Penn & Teller skit for transferring energy from one can to another: give the victim an unopened soft drink and invite them to shake it as hard as they like. Then set the can down on a table beside a second soft drink. While the cans are side-by-side, make magical gestures to summon the energy from one can and put it into the other (taking at least 30 seconds for the show to let fine bubbles leave the liquid). Then invite them to open that can. It will "pop" but not overflow because it has re-equilibrated. Pick up the "energized can" and with a firm grip on the can (actually squeezing it in a little if possible to over-pressurize it), open it in the victim's direction - worked better with the old pull tab style which was replaced specifically to foil this trick after it was played on softdrink executives - and with practice you can expel about half the can of softdrink onto the victim.

Sebastian, since the preparation of the nutrient portion of ginger bug is pretty straightforward, the problem probably lies with the fermentation organisms - are you using a "starter" colony or perhaps preserved yeast? You might be able to test your starter bug briefly before mixing into the bottles by some variation on common methods for testing dry yeast. Although ginger bug starter is accustomed to different conditions than, say, sourdough starter - you could make a comparably aligned test solution like, maybe a small amount of warm 5% sugar solution - too much sugar could kill the fermenters, and too little could make it hard to see activity quickly. Too high or low temperature could also be a problem - but somewhere around 100F/35C .

Thank you Cade for your help and advices.

Here is my method : i create a ginger bug (always the same recipe) and i put it at 25°C. After one day i add some sugar. After one day again, the ginger bug is full of bubbles. I add some lemon juice and i bootle it. I put the bottles at 25°C.
Sometimes after 2 days the bottles are full of gaz and some times after many days, there is nothing... it's like the yeast are dead or something has stopped suddenly.
I use always the same method, the same temperature, the same bottles, .....

I'm very confused.....

Maybe i wait too much before bottling and the ginger bug has stopped the fermentation ?

Cade Johnson wrote:Sebastian, since the preparation of the nutrient portion of ginger bug is pretty straightforward, the problem probably lies with the fermentation organisms - are you using a "starter" colony or perhaps preserved yeast? You might be able to test your starter bug briefly before mixing into the bottles by some variation on common methods for testing dry yeast. Although ginger bug starter is accustomed to different conditions than, say, sourdough starter - you could make a comparably aligned test solution like, maybe a small amount of warm 5% sugar solution - too much sugar could kill the fermenters, and too little could make it hard to see activity quickly. Too high or low temperature could also be a problem - but somewhere around 100F/35C .

yes, it sounds like something is killing the yeast. That IS frustrating! they are fickle beasts. I wish I could be more help