Who is here because of Daniel Quinn?

I'm just curious... how many of you have read Daniel Quinn's Ishmael? Is that what sparked your interest in intentional communities/permaculture/eco villages?

If you don't know what I'm talking about, there is a collection of his speeches in "the Invisibility of Success." It's a short and quick read, but hits all the major points he has made in his books (Ishmael, My Ishmael, the Story of B, Beyond Civilization, etc.). I'm curious to know your opinions of his ideas if you are familiar with his work.

Hi Bri, and welcome to Permies!  I hadn't heard of Daniel Quinn before your post.  Interesting ideas in his quotes.

Wouldn't say I'm here *because* of Daniel Quinn, but he's one of several authors along with Paul Shepard, Jean Liedloff, David Abram, Vine Deloria Jr., and others whose writings help inform new viewpoints and ideas.

Hi Bri,
I'm not here because of Daniel Quinn but watched the movie 'Instinct' based on his novel 'Ishmael' starring Anthony Hopkins. An other stunning Anthony Hopkins movie. Some very keen observations about the society. Would like to hear your comments comparing the book and the movie, if you get a chance to watch it.
Best

I'm not here because of Daniel Quinn, but find permaculture in harmony with Quinn's philosophy. I was fortunate to get to see him speak in person.  My favorite of his books is The Story of B.  My husband and I worked on the movie INSTINCT - we made the duiker antelope that Anthony Hopkins finds in the snare.  The movie is a poor translation of Daniel Quinn's ideas, in my opinion.  I didn't especially like it, but feel privileged to have my antelope in a scene with Hopkins!

Glad you posted. I'd lost track of that book.

"... what prevents them: They are unable to find the bars of the cage."

Yup. But we still gotta pick a direction and decide what to do next. As what-his-name "Zen and the Art..." said: You can't live on the top of the mountain... All the living gets done in the valleys [where you can't see the Big Picture].


Cheers,
Rufus

Rufus Laggren wrote: But we still gotta pick a direction and decide what to do next.

I think Quinn only wrote one book about "what to do next" - Beyond Civilization - in which he discusses a few things people can do.  I think he didn't want to be expected to do all the coming up with ideas.  I think he got kind of sick of people wanting him to tell them what to do.  It must have gotten very frustrating to him.

Fortunately, permaculturists are coming up with an infinite number of things to do, more than anyone could possibly implement in a lifetime.

I read Ishmael with a book group.
This kind of fiction, the polemic novel,  can be a way to spread truth, but it most of them seem to rely on setting up and knocking down strawmen.
There are some assertions in Ishmael about what wild animals won't do.
That they won't will kill just to kill,  exterminate their competition , or store food, among other things.
These statements are easily contested with simple examples, but that isn't what happens in this novel.
This presentation left a bad taste in my mouth.

I rather liked the idea that religion stems from the human ability and need to extrapolate from the known, all tied to our ability to track animals by sight.
But I have to take that idea with a grain of salt, given the source.

I'm glad for anyone who came here because of Daniel Quinn's writing,  but I don't respect his methods, and that affects how I view the ideas he presents.

Hi

I have read all of his books, plus saw the movie, Instinct.
Overall he is spot on!

I grew up observing most of the same things .
So, reading his books, were refreshing to see that there i s another actual intelligent life form left on the planet
whose personally evolving to re-embracing to live with nature ,
as nature intended us all to live.

I am here in part to Daniel Quinn.

Last year I was working a farm and I was ranting to a coworker of mine about another coworker, who, lets just say thinks that what happened 50 years ago in history has zero effect on what goes on today (he is very young) and I started going on about how we're just a product of our history - how the industrial revolution and colonization and slavery all impacts the inequalities and injustices going on in the world today.

She recommended Ishmael to me. I read it, and now I am reading Story of B. It is such a great, macro perspective on our culture - stuff that I have felt deep down but had never truly been articulated to me. Now I have to figure out what exactly to do with this information. Definitely living a more simple life is part of it!

I read Ishmael in a college ecological psychology course. I thought the book was very insightful and beautifully allegorical for how we might learn from trying to empathize with non human perspectives. On William’s point, I did get a little irked by points that were factually inaccurate like the animal generalizations, but about straw men, I have yet to read any argument that depicts those with opposing views as anything other than straw people. I was a philosophy major and even though this is atop the list of things not to do, it always seems to happen (ie Spinoza or Berkeley on Descartes, Kant on Hume and Mill, Nietzsche on everyone!). I am even now doing it to William, just as he did it to Quinn in his assessment. Not trying to throw shade, just pointing out what I see as a near universal in human discourse and major cause of human discord.

I've read Ishmael, My Ishmael, and The Story of B. They certainly had a profound effect on me. And I made my 15 yo read the first two for homeschooling this year. He liked them as well.