house training dogs

Hello, looking for advice on house training dogs.  I have two 8 month olds I've been trying to train for 6 months and have made no progress.  

I have tried the kennel - they go inside of it.  I have tried tethering them to me, but the get wound around the furniture every 2 minutes.

I feed and walk them at regular intervals, but they will not go outside. I could walk them for an hour, leave them in the yard for an hour til they bark nonstop and I have to let them in for the neighbors sake. Sometime later I will find they've gone in the house.  

They basically do not get the concept that they should go outdoors (I've seen them do it only a few times) and hold it until they get inside.  

I have trained them to walk on a leash, sit, and heel, so I am working with them and they are learning, but this task, the biggest of all I cannot get them to understand.  They are really great dogs and we all love each other a lot, but they are now about 40 lbs each which means big messes and I'm really burning out on cleaning up every morning and several times a day, plus the damage it's causing.

Any good advice would be greatly appreciated.

When I got mine, he'd recently been rescued from being shut in a cage 24/7 for around 7 months and had learned to pee and poop in the cage.  

I would take him outside and pee outside myself. He would copy. I would make sure I stayed close to him indoors (cage in the house, because it was the only place he felt secure - I suspect he'd been dragged out of it and beaten - he still has issues about wanting to stay in his safe-cage) so I could hear if he made wanting-to-poop signs, then I would take him out and squat (no, not poop, just squat) and he'd copy.

Thanks for the tips, I'll try that out.

Hi Gregg- I also had a dog that did not "get" the kennel, training was endless, she never had an accident at my work but at home it was constant. Until I changed the environment and she lived mostly in the yard and only slept inside, things were not ideal. (the next dog was a mutt puppy I rescued and had one accident in the house, just one, and figured it out immediately. Dog IQ seems to vary....)
How do you use the kennel? (like how long are they in there)? Can you somehow observe and note when they go inside their kennel, and maybe the next day, 5 minutes earlier bring them outside and also "catch" them doing it and reward them? Maybe try a different sort of day on a weekend when you get up early, take them out, stay out all day walking or hiking or something, and catch them going a few times and reward them?

Hi, Tereza.

I think they're pretty intelligent as they learn other things pretty quickly, so I don't know, maybe a social/psychological thing?  It's hard to keep an eye on them until they go - it seems they just wait til they have privacy and then go, so it's really hard to keep an eye on them for that long.  I'll try taking them out all day and rewarding them.  I would do that on their walks but even if they're an hour or longer they won't go, not even urinate which seems really strange to me.

Thank you for the tips and I hope you are well.

Gregg

I recently had a problem with our dog peeing in the bathroom.  She had been trained to go outside for her whole life which is over 7 years.

I am not sure what was going on though it had to stop!

As a training tool, we use a piece of rolled-up newspaper.

I took her to the spot, looked at her, shook my head and pointed to the spot, and said "no" several times while shaking my finger at her.  Then I swatted her behind with that rolled-up newspaper.  This behavior has not happened again.

Gregg, don't expect this behavior to end without several scolding of both dogs. Say their names each time, tell them "no" and it is not cruel to train them with the rolled-up newspaper.

When you start training them to go outside, use voice commands so they will understand.  Say their name, then the usual way you tell them to do their business. Once they do what they are supposed to do then give them a treat.

I wish you the best!

Thank you, Anne. I will try those tips.

I do scold them when they go in the house but cannot make the connection for them to go outdoors which may send a message I don't want them eliminating. Since they never go when I have them outside, I am not able to reward the behavior. We generally communicate pretty well, but this one has me stumped.

Btw, I fed them both two hours ago (water is always available), and they've been sleeping next to my desk or in eyeshot the entire time, but no movements.  AAAAHHHHH!!!

Maybe since they have been going in the house for 8 months, it might be an idea to train them to newspaper or puppy pads.  If they have a favorite spot in the house put the newspaper/pads there.  Once they get used to using the newspaper/pads then move them closer to the door. Keep moving the paper a short distance each time.

I have known folks that that is their method and their dogs never do their business outside.

Puppy pads are a lot easier to clean up so this might work for you.

How is the kennel situation? I.e. are both in the same kennel? How big is it/are they, in relation to the dogs?
If they're both in one, try separating them, and each kennel should be just big enough for the dog to sit, stand, turn around, and lie down - no bigger. If the sizes are correct, and they're each in their own, start a journal (even a note on the fridge will work) noting each time each one goes - no matter where - and what they do (#1 & #2). Use that to estimate the average timing for each dog, and start taking them out, preemptively, about 5 minutes earlier than they'd normally go, and stay out as long as it takes, of course, rewarding profusely(with petting verbally, and treats), as soon as they go.

I'm not a fan of only positive training, either. I fully believe that while positive reinforcement is best, there also needs to be some form of negativity associated with misbehavior, for fastest, most solid learning. What negative reinforcement is most effective is dependent on the dog and how far along they are, in their training. Charlie (my 18mo old female Cavalier King Charles) didn't respond much to simple scolding (other than looking remorseful), a scowl, and finally, also got the swat on the rump, in a few different training situations, until she truly associated the swat and the scolding/scowl as being all parts of the same disapproval. She's now reached the point where simply saying her name, a gentle 'no' and giving her a mild scowl is all that's needed, whether it's getting a little rough with teeth in play, chasing the chickens, or getting into the trash. Her last 3 accidents in the house (over the course of the last 8 months or so) have been entirely my fault, because I've been gone more than 4 or 5 hrs, with no one to take her out. Her small size makes her quite portable, so she often gets to run errands with me, and gets to enjoy a lot of social time.

My husband's (20mo old female Irish Wolfhound), on the other hand, has a completely different physiology and mental development rate, and has some occasional regressions, with a very small bit of separation anxiety playing a key role, though this is easing, greatly. Also, by the very nature of her size, she's far more likely to strike terror into others (and has), who don't understand the whole gentle-giant thing, (sadly) making her more difficult to socialize, which leaves her home alone, more often. It's heart breaking, honestly. His feeling bad that she's alone more has left her a bit more spoiled, in this regard, as she has not been swatted, during the scolding - even when being caught in the act. I think it might make a difference, but it's not my decision; he feels it's wrong.

An obvious suggestion is getting rid of the toilet smell in the house.  Even though we cannot smell it the dogs can.  My understanding is that a 'bio' washing powder or liquid is best for digesting the smells so the house smells clean to the dogs.  Normally dogs want to be clean in the den, but unlearning a habit is harder than learning one...

Thanks, Nancy.  I am using enzyme cleaner to get rid of the smell.

Thanks for the input, Carla. I'll incorporate that into my efforts.

When house training puppies, you're supposed to take them outside ten minutes after eating, drinking, or waking up, and every 20 minutes in between. The idea is to never give them a chance to eliminate inside and learn bad habits. Now that yours have their bad habits, I think the only thing you can do is spend a loooot of time following them around to be able to give correction if you see one about to squat inside and praise when they do it outside. They need immediate feedback on their actions, so you need to be vigilant.

I'm wondering if having two of them is complicating things. Maybe they're distracting each other when you bring them out. If you've got a kennel (like Carla said, small enough that they'll have to sit right in their mess if they don't hold it) maybe try keeping one in the kennel while you take the other one out.  They can obviously hold it, so if you can figure out the right timing to get one outside to eliminate, the other one should be okay a bit longer inside until it's their turn.