Batteries home building --maybe

yes i am cheap and mean --i would like to go solar panel ---go off grid --keep all my excess electricity for my own use--not interested in the buy it from me or credit  my bill plan ---should mention i am also very dis-trustful--so onto building my own large batteries has always been my holy grail---i do realize my almost total lack of how its done and all the other back ground to it---disclaimer statement over and out the way-- used to /still do   enjoy -watching   Dr Robert Murray Smith  and his shows--- very sadly though he passed away last year--   a large mine of info still available---he was wacky and a few miles of understanding --above my head. But recently found another "mad scientist " to follow and enjoy his postings--- a young man named Robert Karas under his ROWOW on the tube--and building my dream of homebuilt /own batteries now seems a step closer --- i might then have enough energy to finish my flux capacitor conversion to my kangoo van .

Rest in eternal peace, Dr. Smith.  He would applaud your quest for homebuilt batteries.  
Tony, you are "preaching to the choir" when it comes to being a penny pinching prole, i plead guilty as charged...it drives my wife around the bend on occasion.

I owe it all to my Scots grandfather, born 1900, Pawpaw aka Hugh Hutchings. He could pinch a quarter so hard the eagle would scream. Just one example... when a neighbors barn burned, he had us kids sift through all the ash to rescue all the nails, then we spent a week straightening the many bent ones.  Hence the legislative move towards child labor laws...

I remember making a battery in science class.

Does anyone remember making a potato battery or a penny battery?

thing is spuds cant be recharged from solar panels ---only remade from electromagnetic wave length energy via photosynthesis ---takes awhile to grow more batteries---so while they are growing-- i will watch more  tube clips of the two Roberts on how to make batteries ---trying not to becoming confussed---must endevour to reduce my bevy intake---taking scribbled  notes in my scrap book---and  stumble back to my shed under the influence of new found knowledge and courage.

tony uljee wrote:yes i am cheap and mean --i would like to go solar panel ---go off grid --keep all my excess electricity for my own use--not interested in the buy it from me or credit  my bill plan ---should mention i am also very dis-trustful--so onto building my own large batteries has always been my holy grail---i do realize my almost total lack of how its done and all the other back ground to it---disclaimer statement over and out the way-- used to /still do   enjoy -watching   Dr Robert Murray Smith  and his shows--- very sadly though he passed away last year--   a large mine of info still available---he was wacky and a few miles of understanding --above my head. But recently found another "mad scientist " to follow and enjoy his postings--- a young man named Robert Karas under his ROWOW on the tube--and building my dream of homebuilt /own batteries now seems a step closer --- i might then have enough energy to finish my flux capacitor conversion to my kangoo van .

My friend, you are in great company here!

I do not have any specific help to you on a homemade battery, but will reiterate a mantra I have long held.

"They had nothing in the 1800's yet built some amazing things... like batteries... so with todays technology why can't we?" It might be crude looking, but so what. We built it.

I just found in todays world people greatly overthink things. Me? I try and recoil everything back as far as possible so it is simple. Simple is easy to make. Sure, we have to stay out of the rut of reinventing the wheel so using the idea "what can I use that is already made to make that portion of it" makes fabrication simpler, but it does not mean we have to buy the whole thing!

Another area where boughten and homemade bump heads, is with automation. Most times it is in the automation, or convenience, or lack of maintenance that makes something complex. Having the mindset of, "I can do that once a week", can eliminate a lot of sensors, valves, microswitches, etc. But some of that is just human behavior. Build a functioning homemade battery and people will say, "that looks crude", but put something digital on it with cool multicolor changing digital outputs and the same battery will generate a "that's so cool". People buy into complexity.

But make your own battery... hell ya you can. My advice here was just to support you on many homemade versions of things, not just a battery.

Rico ---my 80 year old neighbor had his house roof  redone ---new slates and batons ----yes he did help the contractor up on the roof at times---he removed all the nails from the old timbers by hand ---trusty old claw hammer---and gave me two full buckets of them---i still have them in the shed coated in old engine oil ---hes a semi retired farmer-------just reading of the turning algae into alcohol posting ----i wouldn t go that far myself ---but perhaps making a few gallons of it and having an old converted car engine to run on it ---coupled to a generator ---top up my homemade batteries ---when the sun does nt shine enough---or need to weld something ---would be handy

tony, your array of ideas and your work itself are in constant motion....a laudable example for us all.   A quality brain that seeks to create order out of this planet full of chaos.  I am reminded of Athena leaping fully formed and ready for battle, directly from the forehead of Zeus......

Yes, algae research is also ongoing at our local Uni in Athens GA
Big agriculture programs, I have read that fuel, livestock feed and even medicines can be made with algae.

Before you use a large engine as a generator, consider this workshop solution, our good friend Bogdan Smith posted this on permies in relation to enduring this awful war against Ukraine (Increase wood stove efficiency during blackouts)

making order from chaos----i think you got the wrong idea about me---i do nt want to put anything into any order  ---but thanks all the same ---i am only trying to escape the system of increasing bills and seemingly endless attempts  at pushing me into debt or energy poverty---

I suspect that your ability to make your own batteries is limited mostly by your knowledge of chemistry, or your willingness to acquire said knowledge.  After that, there's the supply chain issue of bulk chemicals/materials that authorities get nervous about when individuals start buying such...

I vaguely remember seeing a YouTube channel of a gentleman who made multiple batteries and showed how he did it, but I don't remember his name or any other details - I just know it's possible - don't give up your dream!

As far as the most likely battery chemistry to be within reach of a DIYer, and still be potentially useful/practical, the old Edison nickel/iron batteries are at the top of the list.  Their electrolyte is mostly potassium hydroxide, which doesn't eat up or corrode the electrodes, and the batteries can be renewed repeatedly for a useful service life that can be measured in decades.  Their downsides are (from a commercial viewpoint) they don't wear out, they have a lower cell voltage than lead acid (1.2 volts), and they're too heavy to be practical in mobile application.  They also have a fairly high self-discharge rate, compared to others, but if you've got frequent/plentiful power and just need somewhere to store it, this is a decent option that can easily be homeade.

yes i have done a little bit of background to this , and a friend is involved with this ---he s the electrical engineer---i woun t be going down the edison path ---the nickel required for building them is not a diy possibility---for the size of battery i would be interest in building---reading over the information available from a few sources ---the original edison battery was built with pure nickel components through out its construction ---nothing was nickel plated --apparently this is critical for reliable long term use and output ---i am interested in the iron redox option--- the ion membrane that Robert Karas has developed ----which he has given over to  open source-- it is the first time that i have come across something that is diy  from easy to source materials and affordable---this would be for an off grid own use ---the size and space needed is not a hurdle/problem  ---i say affordable ---but its still not cheap or from scrap and stuff lying around----but all from hardware stores ---nothing that is on any list of restricted chems---

I wanted to experiment with saltwater batteries.  Just salty water, a coil of copper, and an iron nail, to start.

Inherently safe, generally available materials. Cannot catch fire or overheat.

I saw one cell made on youtube come out somewhere like 3.4volts, so 4 cells in series gets you a 12v battery.

However i have not seen anyone do the experiments necessary to establish the capacity per kg or per m3. Or the recharge and temperature profile. I have seen online guides which establish an ideal salinity but its not clear how big the difference is if your salinity is way off.

Its on my very long term backburner and if someone with more free time could set up those experiments we could learn a lot.  A price premium over existing batteries may be fine if you can make it with locally sourced seawater or used nails.

another open source and all about iron redox battery---8 years of study and design testing ---version3 --- is from Dr. Peter Allen , its full of detail on sizing ,and building plus the use of low cost chems to enhance the process ,he  gives a good explanation on its abilities and its limits and comparison to the lithium /iron cell-----and yes again ----all open source ---no need to recreate all the experimentation in a backyard shed---instead fill that shed with large batteries you could build inside that shed.

Definitely need to link this past thread to this one. Same idea and a lot of good discussions. Worth tracking what became of some of the old suggestions in this 13 year old thread:
https://permies.com/t/17481/tech-DIY-storage-battery

yes i have read through that link before , but its not the path(s) i will be trying to follow---making any type of battery requires high quality purified  chemicals as electrolytes  , same goes for the metals for anodes/cathodes ,and the housing/container to be rugged and suitable---for redox batteries its the ion membrane needs high quality as well---which i think  why most of the attempts at diy builds seem to fail ---contamination just poisons the reactions-- as most of the pure components are expensive or too exotic/difficult to source ---hence the small prototypes and limited lifespans of many---i have collected the basics of materials required to build one , 100 liter cell---at a reasonable cost ---i think---for my purposes and expectations--but its not a true cost/outlay ---as some of the stuff i had to hand already---but only for one cell ---maybe two---but enough to complete these ---allowing for one to be a failure--then  on to measuring in put/out put afterwards---and then next stage of sourcing solar panels ---to then justify going further--