• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • John F Dean
  • Nancy Reading
  • r ransom
  • Jay Angler
  • Timothy Norton
stewards:
  • paul wheaton
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Anne Miller
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
  • M Ljin
gardeners:
  • Jim Garlits
  • thomas rubino
  • William Bronson

Root Cellar Needed (fishing for ideas)

 
Posts: 17
Location: Dresden, OH (Zone 6)
2
  • Likes 10
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Good Morning!
I have purchased a cabin in the woods on about 5 acres in zone 6 (Central Ohio). I moved in about 6 months ago. I have little to no experience with most things that are DIY. I grew up in heavily populated cities so, the opportunity to learn how to human was never really in front of me but, now it is.
I have started growing anything I can in two hugelkultur beds. Now, I need to think about how to store the fruits of my labor when harvest season comes around.
Currently, I live in a cedar cabin that came with the property. It is quite small and has very little room for storage. As well, I currently do not have any type of storm shelter and hoped the root cellar could double as a storm shelter if needed (tornadoes). Eventually I hope to build an earth berm home to live in permanently. Obviously, I’m going to need some practice so, I thought building a root cellar would be the best practice, and very much needed.
I don’t exactly know where to start. The most difficult part of this adventure is the decision paralysis that accompanies my lack of knowledge. I often find if I just set about doing something, things kind of work out as I go. However, I don’t want to just start digging and find myself staring at a massive hole for weeks because I can’t decide on the next step.
Just an FYI, I do not have earth moving equipment. Thus far, everything I have accomplished has been with hand tools and time.
IMG_3461.jpeg
Hopefully, the site of the future root cellar.
Hopefully, the site of the future root cellar.
IMG_3462.jpeg
The site is fairly shaded and the door would face NW.
The site is fairly shaded and the door would face NW.
IMG_3463.jpeg
Another angle, there is a bit of a hill which I hoped would be perfect to dig into.
Another angle, there is a bit of a hill which I hoped would be perfect to dig into.
 
steward
Posts: 19058
Location: USDA Zone 8a
4820
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
A simple root cellar can be made using a trash can and some sand:

https://permies.com/t/173529/Steel-trash-root-cellar-DIY

https://permies.com/t/239502/Storing-Veggies-Sand



 
pollinator
Posts: 76
78
forest garden fungi homestead
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
We were in a similar situation last year. A substantial root cellar is very much in our plans, but greater priorities abound as we build out our homestead and we found ourselves needing a fairly quick, affordable and achievable way to store a bumper crop of potatoes. It may have even been here on Permies that I learned of trash can root cellars, and decided to try it. It works amazingly well for our climate (4b) and as an interim root veggie storage spot.

Nothing trashy about it - essentially you bury a steel trash can to its top (purchased new for the purpose in our case) in the coolest area you've got and line it with a base layer of rocks (to manage moisture) and then layer with straw and your veggies to the top, packed close but not touching. Some folks drill holes in the can for ventilation but our climate is so wet in the fall that we decided on small holes at the top only. We built an open sided framework over it with a roof on top to keep off the snow and make getting potatoes in winter easier.

We finished the last potato in April and they were all as perfect as the day I put them in back in September, minus a couple of fingering potatoes that went soft. Really impressed that such a low-tech solution worked so well, and gave us a bit of breathing room to build a proper root cellar later on. Good luck with your new spot!
 
Stacy DeRemer
Posts: 17
Location: Dresden, OH (Zone 6)
2
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thank you Anne and Rio. Great suggestions.
I am now rethinking my plan. I actually have an old chest freezer that is no longer in use. I’m thinking of burying that and using as a temporary root cellar for this year. Other than adding a base layer of rocks and then straw, would there be any other modifications needed? I read on some other forums of similar ideas but there needed to be some type of ventilation. Any chance there is a video, forum or literature that would tell me how to install the right type of ventilation for the system?
My larger concern would be what burying the freezer could do to the soil and, once I no longer needed it, how difficult would it be to remove? Or…is the trash can method better for this situation all around? I assume there isn’t the same pollutant concern with a couple steel trash cans as there is with an old freezer.
I just purchased the Mike Oehler package (books and DVD’s). I’m going to do some more research and work on a plan for next year which would incorporate a root cellar into a future wofati-type build. I plan to build a modest home with the root cellar attached, that would also relieve my storm and tornado concerns.
I very much appreciate all input I receive. If I wasn’t drowning in responsibilities, I would already be at the boot camp gaining the confidence and abilities I desperately need. Some day I will be there. Some day.
 
Posts: 227
64
kids urban seed
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The buried chest freezer idea works well as a temporary solution. Ventilation is the main thing to sort — a couple of PVC pipes through the lid, one near each end, lets air circulate and stops moisture building up inside. Some people add a small mesh screen over the pipe openings to keep rodents out. The insulation is already built in which is the main advantage over a trash can.
 
Anne Miller
steward
Posts: 19058
Location: USDA Zone 8a
4820
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
My first thought about burying a freezer is how cool will an insulated freezer get?

Part of the beauty of having a root cellar in the ground is that the ground will have a cooling effect.

Digging a hole to put the freezer in is another consideration and thus for removal.  Sounds like a lot of work to me.
 
master steward
Posts: 15587
Location: Pacific Wet Coast
9966
duck books chicken cooking food preservation ungarbage
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Stacy DeRemer wrote:

As well, I currently do not have any type of storm shelter and hoped the root cellar could double as a storm shelter if needed (tornadoes).


I don't know what your budget is, but I have read of people buying a new septic tank, and burying it to be a combination root cellar and storm shelter.

Personally, I'm not convinced how good the overlap is, because a root cellar normally needs to be cool and a bit damp, and I wouldn't want to feel cold and damp when I'm already afraid of a storm.

Some people do a double system - cold damp at the back for root/veggie crops. Then a wall. Then a warmer, dry storage area for back-up food like canned goods and dry foods that can be damaged by moisture. This front area is large enough to double as the storm shelter when needed.

I have not tried the garbage can system for various reasons, but I did use large plastic buckets with damp sawdust in our feed storage trailer for storing potatoes and it's amazing how much longer they lasted than just in the house - it isn't overly cool in that trailer, but it is *very* dark, and the temperature is stable without huge swings. As mentioned, layers of sawdust with layers of potatoes trying to make sure the potatoes don't touch each other. The buckets were lidded, but nothing special for ventilation.
 
gardener
Posts: 5687
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio,Price Hill 45205
1306
forest garden trees urban
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I love to dig, but I balk at the idea of digging a hole big enough for a chest freezer.
The compressor will certainly have some gick in it and it will eventually escape into the soil.

A garbage can seems like the better choice.
Plastic barrel might be even better.
Maybe dig a trench into the slope and lay the barrel or trashcan into it, one end lower than the other.
Less digging, easier access, and you can pile more dirt on top to make up for it being a shallower hole.


Another idea, for a walk in root cellar.
To avoid having dig so deep, I would lay out a 16 foot diameter octagon of   55 gallon barrels, remove one, then fill the rest with water.
Then dig out the inside of the circle and the spot where we removed the barrel.
Double stack two barrels in the center of the hole, then fill them with water.
Top them with  bicycle tire rim, screw it directly into the top barrel with self tapping roofing screws.
With 2x4 lumber , span the space between the center barrel and the perimeter barrels, and secure the wood with self tapping roofing screws.
Cover these rafters with snow fencing, stretched tight and stapled place .
Cover the snow fencing with thick plastic sheeting, secured with battening.
Cover the roof with layers of soil and cardboard.
Berm the perimeter barrels with layers of soil and cardboard.

 
Stacy DeRemer
Posts: 17
Location: Dresden, OH (Zone 6)
2
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Joao - Thank you so much for the description on properly venting. Incredibly useful information and exactly what I needed to know. I’m going to keep that in my back pocket.

Anne - You’re right, on further consideration I don’t like the freezer idea, mostly because of the potential soil pollution and anticipated difficulty of removing.

Jay - The septic idea is certainly interesting but, I lean toward the same thought process you do, it’s a great idea but in practice could be an entirely different story. I do have a small crawl space under my cabin. Just large enough for 3-4 plastic buckets…it’s pitch black in there and could do well as you described…so long as winter doesn’t get all crazy like she did last year.

William - Wow, what an incredible idea. If I had the 55 gallon drums on hand I would already be outside working on that plan. Any ideas on places I could source that many drums from?
I also love to dig but, I am just finishing an overly ambitious hugelkultur bed and the love affair is a bit sour right now.
Thank you so much for the detailed description, exactly what I can understand and put to task. I am going to use this idea and am probably too excited about it…I’m going to drive my partner nuts!

I am so thankful for all of the input.
 
Anne Miller
steward
Posts: 19058
Location: USDA Zone 8a
4820
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
You might Enjoy this Sepp Holzer style root cellar that was built at Wheaton Labs:



https://permies.com/t/262011/video-root-cellar-build-Wheaton
 
You have to be odd to be #1 - Seuss. An odd little ad:
hands on gardening and natural building
https://wheaton-labs.com/bootcamp
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic