Black soldier fly larvae: poultry, fish food

All I've got to say is, except for the issue of bringing them through winter, these things rock! They will convert the vilest imaginable stuff into poultry feed. Humanure, pet waste, dead animals, slaughter trash, moldy stuff, spoiled canned goods, even poisonous wild mushrooms! They will reduce the volume and odor of these things compared to other compost systems. Coffee grounds are one of their favorite foods....a boon for anyone living near a coffee shop.

Hello..In my experience this past summer with a black soldier fly colony combined with a worm bin is that they go hand in hand very nicely ...soldier flies are happy to eat what worms.like and also what worms dont like....
I too had big ideas of auto feeding the tilapia with them but it was better for me to let them plop into a bucket so I had some.measure of what my fish were getting fed instead of it being this unknown variable.
My aquaponic system resides in a greenhouse and that is where the soldier fly/worm bin is located just next to The door...I left a cantelope half out in the garden face down and saw the soldier flies landing on it so I waited a day or two thinking they would lay eggs on the melon then moved it into my worm bin and left it alone..a few days later there they were!
Even though they were in a greenhouse they still went dormant in the fall...but the nice thing was that the worms keep going in the cold in my greenhouse and gave me lots of food to enhance the fish's diet.
There was nothing fancy about my bin setup ...just an old.storage tote with some pieces of 1x6 layed over the top with a scrap 30 inch piece of 1 1/2 inch diameter pipe for a ramp that protruded through a gap between the boards.
Once you see a soldier fly youul swear you've seen them before because they have a very distinct way of flying....they hover and.kind of dart around and they are not always black..most of mine were brownish .
For year round I'm guessing you would need a consistently heated greenhouse or walipini for them to remain.active .
I have seen setups where someone.kept them indoors in a netted cagelike structure so they could.live out thier whole.life cycle and.fly around and mate.

Susan Monroe wrote:Can these larvae co-habitate with earthworms?  Some 'bugs' are predators.

And where would a person buy the larvae to get started?

The larvae can cohabit with earthworms in small quantities, but the worms prefer a different environment than what the BSFL prefer. They can be in the same bin, but they won't be in the same space. Worms will always move away from busy BSFL.

The worms like to have just enough food to eat and maybe a only little more - just enough to allow for growth. Too much food causes an acid environment that will kill the worms.

The BSFL live faster, move faster, and can decimate a large amount of food waste pretty quickly, which causes that acid environment that the worms can't live long with. If you add too much food too fast, the BSFL will be happy and busy, but the worms will move away to the corners and die off if the environment does not become more to their liking.

If you've added a bunch of food, but not an overwhelming amount, and the BSFL jump on it, they'll finish it off until it's gone. Then, the worms will move in and finish the job.

So, small, temporary pockets of BSFL aren't horribly bad. Large populations are an indicator that you are feeding too much too soon to the worms.

Scott Olsen wrote:Here is another link about BSFL info. This guy is researching BSFL at my farm and has good data on several years of research: http://www.dipterra.com/

I guess I missed this the first time around. Excellent link, great information there, both about BSF and other things (he does a pretty brutal tear down of the problems with hot composting, with supporting data and explanations of what the problems are and offers solutions that get away from the problems).

There is this guy I know who takes amazing insect and other tiny life photos. Bill captions this photo with:

Laurie made some excellent kimchee a few months back, but it had a limited shelf life. I threw it on the compost pile, wondering whether all the pepper would discourage worms and other decomposers. It turns out that for some reason soldier fly larvae like this one LOVE it. I really need to get a close-up of the pattern on the skin of a clean one of these. It's quite beautiful, actually.

Just wanted to share another layer of appreciation of these larvae.

So glad you're a fan, too, Jocelyn :) BTW, I think Erica alluded to them sometime or other.... if anyone can figure out the most efficient way to use them in the PNW burbs, she can... when she gets the 'duck rape' taken care of ;) ox (now will that 'ox' get me 'ghosted' ?)

i'm just gonna go ahead leave these here.

Cassie, thanks for sharing http://www.livingwebfarms.org/ videos on the black soldier fly. What a fantastic series they've created.

I almost passed on this one. I'm glad I didn't. Thanks!

Wow! these look terrific, Cassie, thanks ;) I'll watch them, but I notice that Living Web Farm is located in So Carolina.... not PNW temperatures, typically. I want to find a way to carry their re-productivity over our cold winters. After talking with the major supplier of BSF larva, (in one of the Carolinas, of course), I think there's a feasible way, which I outlined somewhere else in Permies. If anyone else has been continuing the egg laying/larva prouction process through our winters, I'd love to be referred to them ;)

Make sure whatever container you plan to have the larvae mature and breed in is very well contained, just make sure they still have air holes. My brother learned that they are excellent escape artists.

Nancy, where in permies do you discuss wintering over black soldier flies in a cold climate? I live in Canadian zone 4-5 and there is no wild population here. I can by some starter bsf on line, but need to keep them breeding long term.
I have a clivus multrum composting toilet stocked with red wigglers. The vermiposting chamber is quite large and well sealed. It has a small fan venting fumes outside. I am looking into the possibility of adding bsf if I can figure out a way to deal indoors with the adult stage of their life cycle. I think I can cover the venting outlet with a screen to keep adult flies from leaving. It might be difficult to catch them when I open the hatch, however. Hmmm, need to think this through. Maybe I could let most of the adults leave and just keep a small percent as breeders? I need to research how to provide the right environment for the adults to breed though. Any leads on this would be greatly appreciated.

mary yett wrote:Nancy, where in permies do you discuss wintering over black soldier flies in a cold climate? I live in Canadian zone 4-5 and there is no wild population here. I can by some starter bsf on line, but need to keep them breeding long term.
I have a clivus multrum composting toilet stocked with red wigglers. The vermiposting chamber is quite large and well sealed. It has a small fan venting fumes outside. I am looking into the possibility of adding bsf if I can figure out a way to deal indoors with the adult stage of their life cycle. I think I can cover the venting outlet with a screen to keep adult flies from leaving. It might be difficult to catch them when I open the hatch, however. Hmmm, need to think this through. Maybe I could let most of the adults leave and just keep a small percent as breeders? I need to research how to provide the right environment for the adults to breed though. Any leads on this would be greatly appreciated.

breeding during the summer probably wouldn't be a problem for you. winter, though...

a lot of folks' first thought is to just breed them indoors where they can keep things warm. temperature isn't the only issue, though. they also won't breed without adequate light, which is not really practical to provide artificially. a greenhouse would do it so long as the temperature stayed above 50 Fahrenheit, but building a greenhouse just for soldier fly breeding might not be a great use of resources.

depending on how long your cold season is, you might be able to keep a good population without breeding. when temperatures dive, the larvae don't mature as quickly, though they consume more. they still need to be kept reasonably warm, but their own metabolism produces a lot of heat if they're relatively well-insulated. that slower maturation could get you through the winter if you go into it with a lot of young larvae.

Hi Mary, this is what I posted on 'Black Soldier Flies in the PNW' (& I think there's a posting here about a fellow who's 5 gal bucket toilet contains BSF ;)

Re: bsf in PNW.... I have just done some research and am tossing this idea out. It seems that larva can be kept warm enough with insulation and their self-generated heat to possibly survive our winters and continue 'eating'.. at least, as far north as Eugene. Its the mating/egg laying that has to be done in light, and at around 70 degrees, which is why buying in larva every year may be necessary.

However, it may be possible to take some (a few) pupating larva inside, buried in a tray of minimum 2" of soil, let them hatch into flies (which are slow moving, live less than 2 weeks, don't eat anything) which mate and then lay eggs. I believe they can be easily contained in a small screened cage, with enough light and warmth. Apparently they readily lay eggs in edges of corrugated cardboard daubed with some foods (can't remember, but can look it up if desired), or, best with exudate from the bottom of the larva feeding container. The hatched larva can be sent off to turn into feed. This whole process happens pretty quickly, btw... raising larva through the winter and to increase larva numbers.

I got this information from talking to the largest larva seller, in one of the Carolinas... who, coincidentally was backlogged on their orders... which I take as a good sign of something ;)

Thanks, Nancy - I'll look into that more. It might be entertaining to grow out a few adults in a wire cage on a warm window sill while the snow is blowing outside. Once they produce larvae, I could just toss them down the toilet and let them eat my you-know what. Apparently bsf and red wigglers make a good team. If I decide to follow through with this scheme, I will post my results.

Hello fellow Permies! I have one main question, do BSFL eat seeds? I am a huge fan of throwing rotten fruits and veggies in areas that you wouldn't mind volunteer plants growing the following year. However I think I like the idea of BSFL converting ofal, kitchen scraps, and rotten fruit and veggies into winter feed for chickens (if you harvest the larvae and dehydrate them) more. Is there a chance I can get the best of both ideas, feeding the veggies and fruits to the BSFL and the seeds remaining intact to create volunteer crops the following year?

P.S. I hope this question/topic hasn't been discussed in this thread. If it has... I apologize!

Looking forward to your inputs!

I usually throw a lot of the kitchen trash and food scraps directly to the chickens. They will eat a lot of it, and this will be a more effective food conversion than passing it through the BSF first. I prefer to keep my BSF going on things that not even the chickens will eat, like their own manure, my own manure, the dog dirt, coffee grounds, rotten and moldy stuff (chickens will quit laying if they eat moldy stuff), and things I know to be natural poisons and anti-nutrients....such as poisonous wild mushrooms. The BSF thrive on all this, and produce a yield of feed from stuff otherwise inedible even to chickens.

Anybody know if the Biopod website is still active? You can't email them or contact them in any way. It is all disabled as far as I can see. I used my Biopod last summer for the first time and was actually able to speak with Karl about the Biopod but no longer have his phone number. He told me to replace the coir mat that came with it, with a new one. I am not sure where to get one and wanted to see if I could order coir mat from them. Also, I need to order some BSF as I had to do this last year because they didn't populate. Thanks!

I found the coir mat to put in bottom of Biopod. I just need to order more BSF larvae. I am worried that the Biopod website and contact info isn't available any longer. Still haven't heard from anyone.

Thanks,
Beth

You can purchase coir at any number of places -- I've even seen it at Home Depot. You just have to cut it to size and drop it in.

A Biopod is one of those things that is just as good (or better) if its used. If it already smells of soldier fly larva, it will be a magnet to any adult in the area. If it's a bit dirty on the inside and the ramps leading up to the exit hole are a bit dirty, all the better --- it'll help the larva to get a better grip as they crawl out.

You can easily take some cardboard, cut it into 2 x 2 inch squares, glue it together into a little block, glue a piece of string into the middle of the block so that it hangs like a Christmas tree ornament, and suspend it from the roof of your bio-pod, so that the adults have a convenient place to lay their eggs. I've also seen people who use a piece of burlap and drape it over the top of the body of the lower half of the bio-pod, and then put the lid back on. The adults can lay their eggs on the burlap, and the hatched larva can then drop through.

So if you are interested in experimenting with a bio-pod, look for a used one out there on Criagslist or ebay.

Keep it in the shade, make sure that you feed the herd every day, make sure the food stays moist enough, and make sure that enough of the larva "escape" (don't capture every single one of them) so that you'll continually have new eggs being laid.

Just wanted to share this NPR story on Black Soldier Flies

Alder Burns wrote:I usually throw a lot of the kitchen trash and food scraps directly to the chickens.  They will eat a lot of it, and this will be a more effective food conversion than passing it through the BSF first.  I prefer to keep my BSF going on things that not even the chickens will eat, like their own manure, my own manure, the dog dirt, coffee grounds, rotten and moldy stuff (chickens will quit laying if they eat moldy stuff), and things I know to be natural poisons and anti-nutrients....such as poisonous wild mushrooms.  The BSF thrive on all this, and produce a yield of feed from stuff otherwise inedible even to chickens.

I've heard some nutrients are more available for human consumption (humans absorb the nutrients better) if they are from animal meat, milk or eggs.  So i wonder if the nutrients from the food scraps can be better absorbed by chickens or ducks if they eat the larvae that have eaten the scraps.

Is biopod really better than the homemade version?

I have a question wrt BSF and chickens. I have BSF now, and I love them - they process my food-scraps at an impressive rate. I feed their left-overs to my worms (BSF don't really eat carbon, which the worms love).

But now I have chickens, and I am thinking of just setting up my compost-bins in the chicken shed and have them have a go at it. But they would definitely out-compete the BSF. Do I get more out of the whole process, if I let the BSF have a go at the compost first, and then let the chickens eat them? Or does it not matter?

I would look at what Alder said above, about feeding the better stuff to chickens and feeding the BSF larvae things that chickens won't eat.  BSF can apparently consume chicken droppings!